What's killing us this week?

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Witness
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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Witness » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:36 am

Bruce wrote:I'm reading that LSD is safer than caffeine. Good too know. I've never done the stuff, or anything else on the graph other than alcohol, but it's good to know that LSD is so safe. :roll:
On April 19, 1943, Albert Hofmann, the Swiss father of psychedelic medicine, dropped lysergic acid diethylamide and went on a bike ride, becoming the first human to ever trip on acid. The rest is psychedelic history.
https://www.inverse.com/article/14503-b ... -acid-trip

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Grammatron » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:57 am

Bruce wrote:I'm reading that LSD is safer than caffeine. Good too know. I've never done the stuff, or anything else on the graph other than alcohol, but it's good to know that LSD is so safe. :roll:
What's with the eyeroll?

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Doctor X » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:11 am

Grammatron wrote:What's with the eyeroll?
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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:21 am

Bruce wrote:I'm reading that LSD is safer than caffeine. Good too know. I've never done the stuff, or anything else on the graph other than alcohol, but it's good to know that LSD is so safe. :roll:
There is no such thing as a "toxic overdose" of the stuff.

Make it 3-D graph with a freak out axis if you like. :P
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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:07 pm

Bruce wrote:I'm reading that LSD is safer than caffeine. Good too know. I've never done the stuff, or anything else on the graph other than alcohol, but it's good to know that LSD is so safe. :roll:
I doubt that LSD is all that safe in practice. Nor that caffeine is particularly dangerous.

There's a new documentary on Netflix called "Wormwood" about early CIA experiments with LSD. Apparently they gave some poor guy LSD without his knowledge and he ended up either falling or jumping out of a window. I did try it a couple times in my youth and I wouldn't do it again. The effects last at least half a day. If you have a "bad trip" it's going to last probably 10 or 12 hours. I remember it made my spine hurt among the other effects. It wasn't a pleasant experience, but I got through it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson
Frank Rudolph Olson (July 17, 1910 – November 28, 1953) was an American bacteriologist, biological warfare scientist, and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) employee who worked at Camp Detrick (now Fort Detrick) in Maryland. At a meeting in rural Maryland, he was covertly dosed with LSD by his CIA supervisor and, nine days later, plunged to his death from the window of a 13th-story New York City hotel room. The U.S. government first described his death as a suicide, and then as misadventure, while others allege murder.[1] The Rockefeller Commission report on the CIA in 1975 acknowledged their having conducted drug studies.
Olson asked to quit the biowarfare program the week after the retreat:

Ruwet was surprised to see Olson at 7:30 in the morning, but asked him in. Olson told Ruwet that he was dissatisfied with his own performance at the retreat, that he was experiencing considerable self-doubts, and that in fact he had decided he would like to be out of the germ warfare business. He wanted to leave Camp Detrick and devote his life to something else.[6]

Olson subsequently suffered severe paranoia and a nervous breakdown. The CIA sent him to New York City to see one of their physicians, who recommended that Olson be placed into a mental institution for recovery. This was Harold Abramson, an allergist-pediatrician, who was helping the CIA with the psychotropic research into the effects of the drug.[7]

The ensuing police report said that on his last night in Manhattan, Olson purposely threw himself out of the window of his tenth-floor hotel room at the Hotel Statler, which he had been sharing with Lashbrook, and died shortly after impact.[4]
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by ed » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:53 pm

Didn't they show that episode in The Good Shepard? Similar but different as I recall.
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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:08 pm

In my youth I took acid at least a dozen times. A couple of those were not nice experiences but the vast majority were. Never once did I have the urge to jump out a window or otherwise harm myself. Never once was I unable to distinguish the difference between the drug's effects and reality. From my perspective it is utterly safe so long as you don't try to operate that backhoe in your driveway or fly that dragon in your living room.

The Wormwood anecdote aside, I think the increased risk from the use of it is essentially zero; sober folks also jump from windows.

So I'll see that Wormwood anecdote and raise you a forum post.

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by ed » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:42 pm

So we should take the word of a self admitted drug abuser over a hollywood anecdote?

I think not.
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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:49 pm

The inability to distinguish reality comes from higher doses + suggestibility being misused by playing loud rock and roll.

But it's still not a toxin. :BigGrin3:
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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:58 pm

Best trip music
Pink Floyd (far ahead at number one)
Mamas and Poppas (a distant but worthy second)
Moody Blues (a sad note there)

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Witness » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:15 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Nor that caffeine is particularly dangerous.
Clinical Pediatric Emergency Medicine wrote:Abstract

Caffeine is one of the most widely consumed psychoactive compounds and is often marketed for its physical and cognitive performance benefits. The ingestion of potentially toxic amounts of caffeine in the forms of energy drinks, over-the-counter supplements, or anhydrous caffeine products places vulnerable pediatric and adolescent individuals at risk for accidental overdose, resulting in neurologic and cardiac toxicity.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 011730040X

I can confirm from personal experience that drinking a whole pot of robusta (working on my exams) can have very unpleasant effects.

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Bruce » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:07 am

I binged the entire Fringe series on Netflix. No intention here of ever trying LSD or other hallucinogens. Life is already a life-long bad trip. :P

I have Wormwood bookmarked. Looks interesting.
Such potential!

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:26 am

Rob Lister wrote:In my youth I took acid at least a dozen times. A couple of those were not nice experiences but the vast majority were. Never once did I have the urge to jump out a window or otherwise harm myself. Never once was I unable to distinguish the difference between the drug's effects and reality. From my perspective it is utterly safe so long as you don't try to operate that backhoe in your driveway or fly that dragon in your living room.

The Wormwood anecdote aside, I think the increased risk from the use of it is essentially zero; sober folks also jump from windows.

So I'll see that Wormwood anecdote and raise you a forum post.
I think the key is that Olson was dosed without his knowledge, much less consent. If you know that you are taking a hallucinogen, you can prepare your mind. If it happens without your knowledge, you might think that you are going crazy. Of course, as you say, lots of people commit suicide anyway, so maybe it's just a sad coincidence. The nervous breakdown thing though suggests that it might have played a role.
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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Doctor X » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:52 am

Someone I once knew made the profound mistake of dropping acid in my presence.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
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"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Grammatron » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:15 pm

Anaxagoras wrote: I doubt that LSD is all that safe in practice. Nor that caffeine is particularly dangerous.
I get that, but the data is clear on its safety. Of course that doesn't mean people should be taking LSD with their morning coffee.

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:44 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote: I doubt that LSD is all that safe in practice. Nor that caffeine is particularly dangerous.
I get that, but the data is clear on its safety. Of course that doesn't mean people should be taking LSD with their morning coffee.
Mama Cass did for 15 years. It was the ham sandwich that killed here.
Last edited by Rob Lister on Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by ed » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:48 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote: I doubt that LSD is all that safe in practice. Nor that caffeine is particularly dangerous.
I get that, but the data is clear on its safety. Of course that doesn't mean people should be taking LSD with their morning coffee.
Mama Cass did for 15 years.
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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:52 pm

Ham sandwich.

Don't eat ham before 9 am.

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Pyrrho » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:52 pm

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: What's killing us this week?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:58 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Ham sandwich.

Don't eat ham before 9 am.
It was fake news before we were calling it that.
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