STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

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STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:14 pm

They still have presses, right? :notsure:

Or to be more precise, about to part company with science officially, as anthropology already has.

At least that's my prediction. Expect to hear more of this and not just from me here.

Cultural Change Over Time: Why Replicability Should Not Be the Gold Standard in Psychological Science
Perspectives on Psychological Science

Abstract

By continuing to focus on the necessity for replication, psychological science misses an important and all-pervasive psychological phenomenon: the impact of social and cultural change on behavior. Or put otherwise, our discipline misinterprets failure to replicate behavioral results if we do not consider that social and cultural change can produce systematic shifts in behavior. Data on the connection between social change and behavioral change point to a new role for “replication”: not to show that results can be duplicated, but to reveal behavioral effects of sociodemographic and cultural change in the intervening years between original and replicated procedure, whether those be surveys, standardized behavioral procedures, or intelligence tests.
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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby gnome » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:38 pm

Gosh, if only someone had devised methods of considering a change in other variables when trying to replicate results! It's all USELESS!! *pushes reams of binders off a desk* USELESS, I tell you!!
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby Mentat » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:25 pm

Insubordinate, and Churlish
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby Rob Lister » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:04 pm

How does one study something completely subjective?

It's a good topic.

There must be a way. Dammit.

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby gnome » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:03 pm

There are ways. You can test subjective responses with double-blind testing, for example.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:09 pm

gnome wrote:There are ways. You can test subjective responses with double-blind testing, for example.


Responses to what stimuli? Using what controls?

You can test for subjective responses to objective stimuli; the effect of a particular chemical on depression or pain, etc., compared with some control, like a placebo ... if n is great enough.

But in the case of the OP, what is the objective stimuli. What is the control?

But maybe I miss your point. How would you design an double-blind and reproducible experiment on the impact of social and cultural change on behavior?
Last edited by Rob Lister on Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby gnome » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:23 pm

I think we'd have to be dealing with a specific example.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:25 pm

gnome wrote:I think we'd have to be dealing with a specific example.


The impact of social and cultural change on behavior.

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby gnome » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:31 pm

That's not specific. I mean a hypothesis about a specific social or cultural change.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:37 pm

gnome wrote:That's not specific. I mean a hypothesis about a specific social or cultural change.


Skirt length on church attendance. Clear correlation. Plausible causation. Now design a double blind experiment with controls.

Honestly though, I don't know why it is up to me to give you an example of what you're talking about.

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby gnome » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:24 pm

I think that's a bad example, because both skirt length and church attendance are objective and measurable behaviors.
If you had a proposed linkage, you would see if the correlation disappears in the absence of that link.

But, that is about as specific as I mean. I'm just saying there's no one-size-fits-all for sociological/psychological research, but for individual case studies there may very well be a proper experiment devisable.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:46 pm

gnome wrote:I think that's a bad example, because both skirt length and church attendance are objective and measurable behaviors.


Then YOU provide the example. Jeez dude, it's your assertion.

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby gnome » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:14 pm

I don't know if that would be helpful, because I would be contriving one that by its nature was easily testable. I think it would make a better point if someone suggested an example they thought would be hard to work out, and I proposed a protocol.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby gnome » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:33 pm

That one would be mostly a research project.
I would line up as hypotheses several theoretical causal relationships, either one to the other, or both affected by a third factor.
Those would probably be the nebulous sounding items such as "interest in public modesty" or "seeking attention from a desirable partner".
Then I would come up with some other concrete indications of what might be the same factors.
If a suggested relationship between the factors is reliable, I ought to be able to predict similar correlations based on the other factors--then I go back to data gathering. If the correlation appears, I might be on to something.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:33 pm

gnome wrote:I don't know if that would be helpful, because I would be contriving one that by its nature was easily testable.


Do that. It may be helpful.

Contrive like the wind.

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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby ed » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:48 pm

It is easy to design such an experiment. The issue would be to operationalize the factors.
Modesty could be defined in a lot of ways but I'd probably have a personal inventory that would provide measures that would be declared as measures of modesty. You'd ask n respondents rate these activities on a scale whete1 is immodest and 5 is modest. You'd runs it reversed to reduce bias (1 is modest 5 is immodest). Factor analyse and reduce it to a couple of vectors then you have operationally identified your dependent variable.
Stuff like that
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Re: STOP THE PRESSES! Psychology not a science after all.

Postby ed » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:49 pm

And if you ran the tucker longitudinally you could I'd Social factors and see if there is a relationship.
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