Iran Nuke Deal

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:34 am

So if they're an apocalyptic death cult that can't be deterred by the threat of nuclear annihilation, what's the point of mere sanctions?
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Doctor X » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:54 am

Convince others to get rid of them.

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:47 am

Here's what I think: He wants to undo the deal because Obama did it. It's personal animus against Obama. Just like the birth certificate thing. Nothing rational or strategic about it.

The same reason why he pulled out of the TPP trade deal. Anything that had Obama's name on it, he wanted to undo simply for that reason.

We got the Iran deal through combined pressure with Europe. Now what's the path forward?
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Doctor X » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:51 am

Nothing to do with it being a laughable "kick the can down the road" deal with a homicidal regime?

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:05 am

Nope. If he had done it himself it would be "The Greatest Deal in History. Where's My Nobel Prize?"

Notice what he says about North Korea. Or what he doesn't say, even though they seem to be pressing forward with their missile programs.

http://www.kunc.org/post/north-korea-se ... e#stream/0

Sometimes can-kicking is the least bad choice. Eventually there may be a favorable change in circumstances. Exactly what that might be or when is hard to foresee. Maybe the Ayatollah dies and the one who replaces him is more sensible. I don't know. Eventually maybe you get a Gorbachev, a real reformer.

But it's hard for me to see how the Iran deal is worse than no deal or a war in the meantime.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Doctor X » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:36 am

False choice.

You do not justify a bad deal by saying it is better than "no deal." Further, "no deal" at least removes the façade that one has "done something" and can ignore a problem rather like the Clintons did with North Korea.

Which also had a deal.

Better than no deal?

In the rain.

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:01 am

It's better than being bitten in the testicles by a rabid badger!!!
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Doctor X » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am

Well, you would know. . . .

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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:20 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:23 am
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:14 am
Iran will nuke Israel as soon as they can, and follow it up with an ultimatum to Saudi Arabia.

No amount of playing "you're another" will make that go away.
Given that Israel has its own nuclear weapons ...
That they keep quiet about. As a deterrent. Allegedly since 1964.

But Iran has repeatedly announced their Intentions to annihilate Israel and overthrow the Saud family as soon as possible.

No amount of playing "you're another" ...
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:24 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:34 am
So if they're an apocalyptic death cult that can't be deterred by the threat of nuclear annihilation, what's the point of mere sanctions?
1) The levels of armament are not like the Cold War.

2) Apocalyptic death cult or mere nationalist sweetie-pies, they can annihilate Israel and Israel cannot annihilate Iran (though they would of course retaliate). The Iranian regime have explicitly put it in those terms in their official pronouncements.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:26 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:47 am
Here's what I think: He wants to undo the deal because Obama did it. ...
That probably is in fact Trump's motivation.

That does not make Obama's deal a good one worth preserving.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by WildCat » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:55 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:34 am
So if they're an apocalyptic death cult that can't be deterred by the threat of nuclear annihilation, what's the point of mere sanctions?
Reduce their ability to produce missiles and nukes by starving them of the cash needed to do so.

The Saudis kill one guy and the left calls for completely cutting off Saudi Arabia. Iran vows to destroy Israel and actively pursues the means to do that. They also fund, arm, and train terrorist groups while also sending troops to fight in Syria and the left cries about how unfair sanctions are to Iran. Oh, and they also torture and kill more journalists before breakfast than Saudi Arabia does in a year. It's unbelievable really.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:13 pm

WildCat wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:55 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:34 am
So if they're an apocalyptic death cult that can't be deterred by the threat of nuclear annihilation, what's the point of mere sanctions?
Reduce their ability to produce missiles and nukes by starving them of the cash needed to do so.

The Saudis kill one guy and the left calls for completely cutting off Saudi Arabia. Iran vows to destroy Israel and actively pursues the means to do that. They also fund, arm, and train terrorist groups while also sending troops to fight in Syria and the left cries about how unfair sanctions are to Iran. Oh, and they also torture and kill more journalists before breakfast than Saudi Arabia does in a year. It's unbelievable really.
The death of one man is a tragedy.

I don't know, can you name any of these journalists that Iran kills before breakfast? Maybe people care more about people when there's a name and a face attached. Maybe it's a media bias but I honestly have not seen any news about all these journalists you say Iran is killing.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Skeeve » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:49 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:13 pm
WildCat wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:55 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:34 am
So if they're an apocalyptic death cult that can't be deterred by the threat of nuclear annihilation, what's the point of mere sanctions?
Reduce their ability to produce missiles and nukes by starving them of the cash needed to do so.

The Saudis kill one guy and the left calls for completely cutting off Saudi Arabia. Iran vows to destroy Israel and actively pursues the means to do that. They also fund, arm, and train terrorist groups while also sending troops to fight in Syria and the left cries about how unfair sanctions are to Iran. Oh, and they also torture and kill more journalists before breakfast than Saudi Arabia does in a year. It's unbelievable really.
The death of one man is a tragedy.

I don't know, can you name any of these journalists that Iran kills before breakfast? Maybe people care more about people when there's a name and a face attached. Maybe it's a media bias but I honestly have not seen any news about all these journalists you say Iran is killing.
Here is one from: Four Canadian journalists who were killed for doing their jobs.
...
Ziba Kazemi, 1948 – 2003

Ziba Kazemi, better known to some as Zahra Kazemi, was a Canadian freelance photojournalist of Iranian background, whose work had taken her to 25 countries in a decade, before she was murdered in Iran.
...
In 2003 she had just finished covering the American occupation of Iraq when she found herself in her homeland, after a quarter century of absence, waiting for work visas. There were delays, so when she learned of the mass demonstrations going on in Iran, she decided to cover them.

An estimated 4,000 students went missing after the protests were squashed by the government, and Kazemi went to take photos of the family members gathered outside the prison where the students were thought to be. It was there that she was kidnapped by officials and held for interrogation.

Her medical examiner at the hospital where she later died said her body showed signs of torture including a skull fracture, broken nose, severe abdominal bruising and signs of rape, but Iranian officials at the time claimed she slipped on a bar of soap suffered a stroke.
Or how about: Who killed five journalists in Iran?
Five journalists were killed in Iran between November 1998 and February 1999.

The Iranian authorities announced that "rogue elements" in the security services had carried out the killings, and some Ministry of Information employees were tried in secret for the murders. The trial was condemned as a sham by the victims' families, their lawyer (who was arrested on the eve of the trial) and human rights and journalists' organisations internationally.

Now copies of videotapes have come into the NUJ's possession that appear to show these "rogue elements" being beaten and mistreated, and then confessing to fantastic "crimes" including working for foreign intelligence agencies, blasphemy, adultery etc.
Also see: Serial murders of writers and journalists in Iran, a bit further down on the same page.

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