Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Doctor X » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:52 am

They have yurts.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Hitler lost.

History is proverbially written by winners, with the interesting exception of the War Between the States.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:57 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote: History is proverbially written by winners.
I'm of the opinion that this adage hasn't been true since the middle of the 20th century.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:37 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote: History is proverbially written by winners.
I'm of the opinion that this adage hasn't been true since the middle of the 20th century.
In the case of the US Civil War it never was.

Winston Churchill wrote a five (or is it six) volume exhaustive history of WWII himself.
And while you won't find any pro-Axis serious historical works these days, there are plenty that are not so nice to Winston.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Witness » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:10 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:not so nice to Winston.
And he lost the elections immediately after the war. Ungrateful rabble! :x

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Witness » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:43 am

Image
Spoiler:
The Guanyin of Nanshan statue in China. It’s 443ft tall and opened in 2005.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Doctor X » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:25 am

Yawkey, make way for Jersey Street
Michael Silverman

The Sox petitioned the Boston Public Improvement Commission to request that Yawkey Way become Jersey Street, by which it was originally known. The Sox said they have the approval and cooperation of all Yawkey Way abutters.

. . . .

The commission is expected to consider the name change at a meeting on March 15.

. . . .

The Yawkey Foundation, the charitable group funded by the estate of Yawkey and his wife, Jean, blasted the Red Sox’ decision. The foundation said it was “deeply disappointed” by the move and called it “an action based on a false narrative about Tom Yawkey.” When did the Red Sox integrate again?

Yawkey, who owned the Sox from 1933 until his death in 1976, oversaw the club during and after baseball integrated. The Red Sox were the last team to integrate, needing until 1959 to place their first black player, Pumpsie Green, on the major-league roster. Jackie Robinson Jr., rejected by the Red Sox in a 1945 tryout, broke the color barrier with the Dodgers 12 years earlier in 1947.

[Tremendous quantities of Yawkey hemorrhoidal flare-up "Snipped!"--Ed.]

In August, Mayor Martin J. Walsh’s office said that he was “supportive of this change.” Yesterday officials said Walsh would defer to the ongoing commission process.

The Red Sox said the name change is not intended as an affront to the Yawkey Foundation.

“It is important to separate the unfortunate and undeniable history of the Red Sox with regards to race and integration from the incredible charitable work the Yawkey Foundation has accomplished in this millennium and over the last 16 years,” the team said in its statement.

Boston Sun
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:36 am

San Francisco To Remove 19th Century Statue Critics Say Degrades Native Americans

Image

Yeah. Bringing the Bible to those ignorant savages.
The city of San Francisco is joining the cause of removing old statues that are out of step with contemporary political and cultural tastes.

The sculpture "Early Days" sits near San Francisco's City Hall. It depicts a Sir Francis Drake and Catholic missionary Junipero Serra standing over a sitting Native American.

The city's Arts Commission voted unanimously Monday to remove the statue, amid cheers from the audience. The move that had been discussed for decades, but it gained a new momentum late last year after the removal of a Confederate statue in Charlottesville, Va., prompted street demonstrations by supporters and opponents.

"It definitely feels like a long time coming," said Barbara Mumby as quoted by the Associated Press. Mumby is an arts commission employee who is descended from Native tribes in California and New York. "I think some people may not understand how big of a symbol it is to be able to take this down."

In February, the city's Historic Preservation Commission endorsed the statue's removal provided that it be replaced by a plaque with an explanation for the removal.

In January, the city's Board of Supervisors voted 10-1 to rename Columbus Day as Indigenous Peoples Day, against the wishes of many in the local Italian-American community.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Doctor X » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:55 am

I can sort of see that one.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:39 am

FWIW, this is who he was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun%C3%ADpero_Serra

Posthumously sainted by the church.
Serra had a singular purpose to save, in his mind, Native American souls. He believed that the death of an unconverted heathen was tragic, while the death of a baptized convert was a cause for joy.[82]:39 He maintained a patriarchal or fatherly attitude towards the Native American population. He wrote, "That spiritual fathers should punish their sons, the Indians, with blows appears to be as old as the conquest of the Americas; so general in fact that the saints do not seem to be any exception to the rule."[80] Punishment made clear to the natives "that we, every one of us, came here for the single purpose of doing them good and their eternal salvation."[82]:39
In his favor, he was (apparently) against raping and enslaving the natives, which I suppose makes him a bit better than the other "conquistadors".
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Witness » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:56 am

Image

William Tecumseh Sherman Monument, 764 5th Avenue, New York, NY, USA.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:44 am

You don't approve of the Sherman statue?
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:18 am

Hey Witness!

Are you just posting pictures of random statues that don't meet your aesthetic standards? :p
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Doctor X » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:32 am

Image

--J.D.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:34 am

Doctor X wrote:I can sort of see that one.

--J.D.
Hmm I dunno...I get the feeling that the artist made a "statement" with that statue. Look at the expressions, for example.

I could be wrong, though.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Doctor X » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:34 pm

That the "Injuns'" should be thanking us for giving them Jesus?

I am still waiting for the nigblack people to thank us for bringing them to Freedom.

Ingrates.

:freedom:

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DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:22 pm

Doctor X wrote:Image

--J.D.
I'd just like to reiterate that the scorched earth policy intended to starve the Confederacy into submission was the brainchild of Gen. Philip Sheridan. Sherman just famously carried it out on his "march to the sea".

After the war Sheridan used the same tactic on the Indians, slaughtering the bison herds to starve them into submission.

He also helped rebuild Chicago after the fire which is how Sheridan Road was named and why there's a statue of him at the intersection of Belmont and Sheridan Road.

Starving enemies into submission, it works!
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:24 pm

And btw, how did open borders, or the inability to defend their borders, work out for the Indians?
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Doctor X » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:55 pm

You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If the United States submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Mexico, which is eternal war. The United States does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling. This feeling assumes various shapes, but always comes back to that of Union. Once admit the Union, once more acknowledge the authority of the national Government, and, instead of devoting your houses and streets and roads to the dread uses of war, I and this army become at once your protectors and supporters, shielding you from danger, let it come from what quarter it may. I know that a few individuals cannot resist a torrent of error and passion, such as swept the South into rebellion, but you can point out, so that we may know those who desire a government, and those who insist on war and its desolation.

You might as well appeal against the thunder-storm as against these terrible hardships of war. They are inevitable, and the only way the people of Atlanta can hope once more to live in peace and quiet at home, is to stop the war, which can only be done by admitting that it began in error and is perpetuated in pride.

--Maj. Gen. Tecumseh "I Fuck Up Your Shit" Sherman, Letter to Mayor and Councilmen of Atlanta, September 12, 1864
Image

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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Giz » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:56 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:San Francisco To Remove 19th Century Statue Critics Say Degrades Native Americans

Image

Yeah. Bringing the Bible to those ignorant savages.
The city of San Francisco is joining the cause of removing old statues that are out of step with contemporary political and cultural tastes.

The sculpture "Early Days" sits near San Francisco's City Hall. It depicts a Sir Francis Drake and Catholic missionary Junipero Serra standing over a sitting Native American.

The city's Arts Commission voted unanimously Monday to remove the statue, amid cheers from the audience. The move that had been discussed for decades, but it gained a new momentum late last year after the removal of a Confederate statue in Charlottesville, Va., prompted street demonstrations by supporters and opponents.

"It definitely feels like a long time coming," said Barbara Mumby as quoted by the Associated Press. Mumby is an arts commission employee who is descended from Native tribes in California and New York. "I think some people may not understand how big of a symbol it is to be able to take this down."

In February, the city's Historic Preservation Commission endorsed the statue's removal provided that it be replaced by a plaque with an explanation for the removal.

In January, the city's Board of Supervisors voted 10-1 to rename Columbus Day as Indigenous Peoples Day, against the wishes of many in the local Italian-American community.
Degraded native-Americans? It degrades history! Why aren’t Francis drake and the Spaniard sword fighting whilst the Indian cheers on drake from the background?

I don’t mind hagiographic statues, but I do like them to do the hagiography properly.