Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:13 am

The issue isn't Columbus. That's just a detail.

It's leftists wanting to make a new year zero, RIGHT NOW.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:15 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:The issue isn't Columbus. That's just a detail.

It's leftists wanting to make a new year zero, RIGHT NOW.
:roll:

Yeah, anyone even slightly to the left wants the downfall of civilization. Nothing else

And double :roll:
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:16 am

Grammatron wrote:
WildCat wrote:And frankly the Indians were every bit as bad as Europeans were. Everyone were murderous bastards back then.
But we don't name days after them.
We name entire states after them, and cities, and streets, and rivers.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:21 am

Grammatron wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Good for LA.

Columbus was a genocidal maniac. Why anyone would WANT to be represented by him, I have no idea. He pretty much wiped out every tribe he came in contact with. And was proud of that fact. Fuck that guy
He didn't wipe out tribes. Introduced diseases wiped out the Indians. That was going to happen upon first contact no matter who it was or what their intentions were.

And that's a fact.
WildCat, you are misinformed. Columbus did far more than just accidentally introduce disease. I suggest some reading on the subject. Below is a good primer

Not about to read an entire Reddit thread to figure out what you're getting at. At what point did Columbus set out to wipe out the native population?
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:23 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:Columbus and his men personally enslaved, murdered and worked to death the inhabitants of Haiti and other islands where they landed. Disease came later. And he was quite proud of it in his diaries

Fuck that guy still
So pretty much what the Indians were doing to each other before he arrived.

Fuck those people, right?
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:31 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:The issue isn't Columbus. That's just a detail.

It's leftists wanting to make a new year zero, RIGHT NOW.
:roll:

Yeah, anyone even slightly to the left wants the downfall of civilization. Nothing else

And double :roll:
"Slightly to the left" does not want to tear down all offending statues.

I'm not big on Columbus, that's not the point.

Better even a statue or two of Hitler than what is brewing now, and "slightly to the left" does not describe it.
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:35 am

Washington, District of Columbia.

"Columbia" meaning land of Columbus, so bag that.

And threaten to invade Canada if they don't do something about British Columbia, not to mention the country Colombia.

And the capital of Sri Lanka is Colombo. Nothing to do the Christopher of that ilk of course, but the name might trigger someone.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:43 am

You simply can't judge people of the past by modern standards. Everyone was a monster by that metric.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Grammatron » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:47 am

WildCat wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Good for LA.

Columbus was a genocidal maniac. Why anyone would WANT to be represented by him, I have no idea. He pretty much wiped out every tribe he came in contact with. And was proud of that fact. Fuck that guy
He didn't wipe out tribes. Introduced diseases wiped out the Indians. That was going to happen upon first contact no matter who it was or what their intentions were.

And that's a fact.
WildCat, you are misinformed. Columbus did far more than just accidentally introduce disease. I suggest some reading on the subject. Below is a good primer

Not about to read an entire Reddit thread to figure out what you're getting at. At what point did Columbus set out to wipe out the native population?
At the point where he was enslaving them and brutally subjugating them for mining.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Grammatron » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:56 am

WildCat wrote: Not about to read an entire Reddit thread to figure out what you're getting at. At what point did Columbus set out to wipe out the native population?
BTW that's not just a "Reddit thread" this is a historian who cites their sources.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:59 am

Grammatron wrote:At the point where he was enslaving them and brutally subjugating them for mining.
The claim was he intended to kill them all, genocide. A dead slave is no good for mining.
Last edited by WildCat on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:00 am

WildCat wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Columbus and his men personally enslaved, murdered and worked to death the inhabitants of Haiti and other islands where they landed. Disease came later. And he was quite proud of it in his diaries

Fuck that guy still
So pretty much what the Indians were doing to each other before he arrived.

Fuck those people, right?
Not the Natives of Hispaniola they weren't
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:02 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Columbus and his men personally enslaved, murdered and worked to death the inhabitants of Haiti and other islands where they landed. Disease came later. And he was quite proud of it in his diaries

Fuck that guy still
So pretty much what the Indians were doing to each other before he arrived.

Fuck those people, right?
Not the Natives of Hispaniola they weren't
Yes, they were. Every single tribe in every single area.

There were no pacifist tribes, at least none that survived into the 1400s. They all had enemies they killed, tortured, and enslaved.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:03 am

Only one tribe on Hispaniola. And when they would hand over their gold that they didn't have, he began killing them.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:04 am

Guess it's okay to kill 90% of a people, so long as they are brown
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Mentat » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:07 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:Guess it's okay to kill 90% of a people, so long as they are brown
What else could it be? Did Columbus found American values? Did he explore for the sake of exploring, instead of as a business venture to get rich?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Grammatron » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:09 am

WildCat wrote:
Grammatron wrote:At the point where he was enslaving them and brutally subjugating them for mining.
The claim was he intended to kill them all, genocide. A dead slave is no good for mining.
I would say that he did not commit genocide, as in he did not land with the intent of wiping out the people in Hispaniola. However, forcing them to work mines under penalty of death and forcing them into brutal slavery puts him in a special class of cunts in history.

I just don't understand why you want to defend him at all.

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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:28 am

Grammatron wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Grammatron wrote:At the point where he was enslaving them and brutally subjugating them for mining.
The claim was he intended to kill them all, genocide. A dead slave is no good for mining.
I would say that he did not commit genocide, as in he did not land with the intent of wiping out the people in Hispaniola. However, forcing them to work mines under penalty of death and forcing them into brutal slavery puts him in a special class of cunts in history.

I just don't understand why you want to defend him at all.
I'm not defending him. He just wasn't worse than other people in his day, the world was just that way.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by WildCat » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:33 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:Only one tribe on Hispaniola. And when they would hand over their gold that they didn't have, he began killing them.
And that one tribe had boats they would use to travel to other islands to raid.

The notion that Native Americans were peaceful people living in harmony with each other and nature is Grade A historical revisionist bullshit. Nearly all of it made up during the Victorian era fascination with the myth of the romanticized "noble savage".

They slaughtered each other in wars, depleted their natural resources, altered their landscapes to better suit them, and in general did all the things people everywhere did and do.
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Re: Getting rid of statues etc OTHER THAN Confederates.

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:01 am

It's equally erroneus to classify them all as a bunch of murderous savages such that any and all violence upon them was justified. There were hundreds of cultures and like people everywhere, their propensity for violence was affected by their cutural mores, population density, abundance or scarcity of resources, etc same as everyone else

Basically, anytime you start a sentence with something like "Natives were..." you are probably wrong there is very little you can say that is applicable to all tribes at all times.

But its far eaier to justify murdering them wholesale if they are all evil, so you go ahead and do that.
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