Ask me about Star Trek, SC edition

[gnome]

So, whats your opinion of Vulcans "knowing" god exists but still having issues with evil in the world (according to Spocks World).

I found an excerpt:

"Jim sat quiet for a moment, absorbing it. It would certainly explain the uncanny--un-Earthly--calm and serenity of many of the Vulcans he had met: they all seemed to carry some certainty around with them that everything was all right. If this was the root of it, he understood at least some of that serenity at last. But there were problems still. 'Spock,' he said, 'in the light of this, how do you explain someone like Shath?'

Spock looked a little somber. 'Captain,' he said, 'I think I can understand your viewpoint. Humans have no innate certainty on this subject and therefore must hink it would solve a great deal. In some ways it does. But there are many, many questions that this certainy still leaves unresolved, and more that it raises. Granted that God exists: why then does evil do so? Why is there entropy? Is the force that made the Universe one that we would term good? What is good? And if it is, why is pain permitted?...' "

"'...You see,' he said, for McCoy was nodding, 'they are all the same questions that humans ask, and no omre answered by a sense of the existence of God than of His nonexistence. Some of the answers are frightening. If God exists, and pain and evil exist, while God still seems to care for creation--for that sense is also part of the experience--then are we effectively 'on our own' in a universe run out of the control of its creator? Such a view of the world leaves much room for anger and aggression. We spent millennia at war, Captain, Doctor, despite the fact that almost every Vulcan born knew that a Force then extant had created the Universe, and now maintained it, from second to second. It takes more than the mere sense of God to create peace. One must decide what to do with the information.'

available here:

http://www.adherents.com/lit/Na/Na_503.html

I like Spock's viewpoint... that "knowing" that a creation force exist isn't useful in the face of the evidence that the universe contains evil and harm. I'm glad to see them applying logic even to that issue. On the other hand, just because they have this feeling doesn't mean they're right

Bear in mind the author here, Diane Duane, tends to inject her own metaphysics sometimes, and take it with a grain of salt.

[Cool Hand]

Who played the original First Officer of The Enterprise?

Majel Barrett.

Shit, you just made me answer a fucking trekkie question. And I didn't have to look it up. Shit.

CH

[Nyarlathotep]

Okay, gnome. Trekker or Trekkie?

Or do you steer clear of that 'De-bakkle' too?

[gnome]

Who played the original First Officer of The Enterprise?

It depends. If you go with technical fandom sources, multiple publications refer to the launch date of Enterprise as 2220, when the original first officer of the Enterprise, Shundresh, served under Captain Robert April.

If you accept Diane Carey's novel Final Frontier, the "Constitution" class had not yet been commissioned until as late as 2236 (in context) and Robert April took an early, non-commissioned version of the "Enterprise" (NCC-1700) on a secret mission with George Samual Kirk as first officer. This does not jibe with many other sources and I think it can be dismissed in favor of the more influential works.

Neither of these, of course, appeared on screen.

The first First officer to be "played" by someone was "Number One" in the pilot "The Cage", under Captain Christopher Pike. Some sources give her name as "Leigh Chapel", which is provocative as she was played by Majel Barrett. It would explain the resemblance

ETA: Kudos to Cool Hand for getting it first.

[gnome]

It's pretty obvious from our few glimpses of the Vulcan home world that they are bronze-age savages.

The whole "logic" shtick is the result of an inferiority complex.

I've often wondered where they keep the factories and infrastructure that supports the starships they've built. Or those fancy holographic computers they have

I've drawn the conclusion that what we've seen of Vulcan are the equivalents of rural areas. Parts of Spock's family's ancestral estate. Various temple grounds. Say, didn't the animated "Yesteryear" have a Vulcan city?

[gnome]

Okay, gnome. Trekker or Trekkie?

Or do you steer clear of that 'De-bakkle' too?

A "Trekker" is just a Trekkie that somehow thinks that by adopting a different word he can divorce himself from the geekness of being a Star Trek fan. He is wrong. Embrace your geekiness!!!

"Dungeon masters don't have levels!! Dork!"

[Grammatron]

How come some places take weeks to get to and some take hours? Particularly on DS9

[gnome]

How come some places take weeks to get to and some take hours? Particularly on DS9

Even at warp speed, the galaxy's pretty friggin huge. The range of time doesn't bother me, but there are lots of inconsistencies.

I believe it's actually been said by the writers that there usually isn't even an attempt to make the transit time consistent. They have the trip last as long as dramatically necessary for the episode.

For the most part I'm OK with this... hate to ruin the pacing by being rigid about how many light years away Rigel is... consider it a conceit to the storytelling medium.

ETA: I could lay some bullshit on you about how traveling in warp space distorts how far away certain stars are, but I think it would be clearly recognized as such.

[Grammatron]

(I hope I'm not pestering you with all these questions)

I remember in one of the early TNG episodes they had a 3D holographic monitor where they would plot their destinations and such. Whatever happened to that thing?

[Cool Hand]

(I hope I'm not pestering you with all these questions)

I remember in one of the early TNG episodes they had a 3D holographic monitor where they would plot their destinations and such. Whatever happened to that thing?

They got OnStar and didn't need it anymore.

CH

[gnome]

(I hope I'm not pestering you with all these questions)

I remember in one of the early TNG episodes they had a 3D holographic monitor where they would plot their destinations and such. Whatever happened to that thing?

You may have spotted something I didn't notice... can you remind me of where it was, what it looked like?

I do know that there was something similar used in Star Trek: Generations by Picard and Data to track the Space Ribbon (tm)

[NightG1]

When Shatner was the host of SNL, he was in a skit called "Star Trek Convention" where he played himself. At a point during the Q&A, he looses it and starts berating the trekkies in attendance.

The funniest bit was when he asked one of the trekkies

You, you must be almost 30... have you ever kissed a girl?

Who was the SNL cast member Shatner was speaking to and what TOS character was he in costume as?

[Grammatron]

(I hope I'm not pestering you with all these questions)

I remember in one of the early TNG episodes they had a 3D holographic monitor where they would plot their destinations and such. Whatever happened to that thing?

You may have spotted something I didn't notice... can you remind me of where it was, what it looked like?

I do know that there was something similar used in Star Trek: Generations by Picard and Data to track the Space Ribbon (tm)

They were sitting in the ready room at this table, at the center of the table there was a computer device. When activated, it displayed 3D holographic images with they used to plot their mission.

[gnome]

When Shatner was the host of SNL, he was in a skit called "Star Trek Convention" where he played himself. At a point during the Q&A, he looses it and starts berating the trekkies in attendance.

The funniest bit was when he asked one of the trekkies

You, you must be almost 30... have you ever kissed a girl?

Who was the SNL cast member Shatner was speaking to and what TOS character was he in costume as?

John Lovitz... Spock...

[gnome]

They were sitting in the ready room at this table, at the center of the table there was a computer device. When activated, it displayed 3D holographic images with they used to plot their mission.

Haven't heard any references to why this would have been abandoned, except that I know the CGI budget was tight for the first season, maybe they had to scrap that particular effect?

From a continuity standpoint I would say anything seen is probably still available, unless something specifically mentioned dismantling it.

[gnome]

When Shatner was the host of SNL, he was in a skit called "Star Trek Convention" where he played himself. At a point during the Q&A, he looses it and starts berating the trekkies in attendance.

The funniest bit was when he asked one of the trekkies

You, you must be almost 30... have you ever kissed a girl?

Who was the SNL cast member Shatner was speaking to and what TOS character was he in costume as?

What's funny is I was just reviewing that sketch to answer your question... and noticing how many errors were made in the sketch...

Wow, I'm a dork.

[Nyarlathotep]

They were sitting in the ready room at this table, at the center of the table there was a computer device. When activated, it displayed 3D holographic images with they used to plot their mission.

Haven't heard any references to why this would have been abandoned, except that I know the CGI budget was tight for the first season, maybe they had to scrap that particular effect?

From a continuity standpoint I would say anything seen is probably still available, unless something specifically mentioned dismantling it.

I know that a tight CGI budget was the reason that the Enterprise's ability to seperate it's saucer section was mentioned far more than it was seen, in TNG.

[Luke T.]

Okay, the ULTIMATE question.

Kirk or Picard ? Or Sisko? Or (if we must) Janeway or Archer.

Look. It's Shatner and Connery. The orginals. They blazed the trail.

And with Kirk, if you found some really potent alien weed, you better bring him back a dime bag or he'll be putting you in a red shirt, and you'll be catching a spear in the chest on the next landing party.

"AAaaaaaagh!"

"There goes another bogart."

[Cool Hand]

Okay, the ULTIMATE question.

Kirk or Picard ? Or Sisko? Or (if we must) Janeway or Archer.

Look. It's Shatner and Connery. The orginals. They blazed the trail.

And with Kirk, if you found some really potent alien weed, you better bring him back a dime bag or he'll be putting you in a red shirt, and you'll be catching a spear in the chest on the next landing party.

"AAaaaaaagh!"

"There goes another bogart."

I think I just swallowed my gum. Goddamn that was funny. Thanks, Luke.

CH

[Doctor X]

Majel Barret who would become Majel Roddenberry and also Nurse, later Dr. Chapel.

She and Nimoy are the two actors to exist in all of the Classic Treks. Spock is the only character to do so as well--this includes the second pilot that was accepted for Classic Trek. I do not count The Menagerie since it was an incorporation of the first pilot into a two-part episode.

--J.D.

[NightG1]

Majel Barret who would become Majel Roddenberry and also Nurse, later Dr. Chapel.

She and Nimoy are the two actors to exist in all of the Classic Treks. Spock is the only character to do so as well--this includes the second pilot that was accepted for Classic Trek. I do not count The Menagerie since it was an incorporation of the first pilot into a two-part episode.

--J.D.

She was also the voice of the computer on that abortion known as Star Trek Voyager.

Except for when Jeri Ryan was added to the cast. Those were OK.

[Nyarlathotep]

Majel Barret who would become Majel Roddenberry and also Nurse, later Dr. Chapel.

She and Nimoy are the two actors to exist in all of the Classic Treks. Spock is the only character to do so as well--this includes the second pilot that was accepted for Classic Trek. I do not count The Menagerie since it was an incorporation of the first pilot into a two-part episode.

--J.D.

She was also the voice of the computer on that abortion known as Star Trek Voyager.

Except for when Jeri Ryan was added to the cast. Those were OK.

Until Enterprise, she had a part in EVERY incarnation of Trek.

She was also the gust of honor at the very first con I ever attended.

[Nyarlathotep]

Speaking of cons..

So gnome, I presume you attend cons on occasion at least, who is your favorite con guest? And least favorite? Mine is John DeLancie hands down. The funny thing is, he hardly talks Trek at all, but he is a fascinating and funny speaker.

The worst was the guy that plays Chakotay. Zzzzzzzzz........

[Cool Hand]

Majel Barret who would become Majel Roddenberry and also Nurse, later Dr. Chapel.

She and Nimoy are the two actors to exist in all of the Classic Treks. Spock is the only character to do so as well--this includes the second pilot that was accepted for Classic Trek. I do not count The Menagerie since it was an incorporation of the first pilot into a two-part episode.

--J.D.

She was also the voice of the computer on that abortion known as Star Trek Voyager.

Except for when Jeri Ryan was added to the cast. Those were OK.

I'm pretty sure she was always the computer on TOS too.

Oh god, not again. I swear I'm not one of THOSE. I ain't no Trekkie, not since I was about 12.

CH

[gnome]

Speaking of cons..

So gnome, I presume you attend cons on occasion at least, who is your favorite con guest? And least favorite? Mine is John DeLancie hands down. The funny thing is, he hardly talks Trek at all, but he is a fascinating and funny speaker.

The worst was the guy that plays Chakotay. Zzzzzzzzz........

I do attend cons now and then, though I haven't been to many geared only to Trek. I haven't happened to attend any of the public appearances of a Trek actor, believe it or not. Though, I saw the back of Avery Brooks' head once as he left a signing session at a Vulkon.

My regular con is one in Tampa called Necronomicon. Used to be a fair amount of Star Trek stuff going on, but last year there was nary a Klingon in sight.

Typical comment from me: "Michael Dorn's here? Totally missed that."

[Bearguin]

I'm pretty sure she was always the computer on TOS too.

I think she was for all the series.

[gnome]

Feel like resurrecting a thread today... anyone else got any more Trek conundrums?

[ed]

The name of the chick that fought with Kirk in the episode "Gamesters of ..." who went on to make hardcore porn. Also the last word of the title of the episode (Nyarl not eligible)

n.b. been waiting 8 years to ask that.

[Rob Lister]

Did the actress who played T'Pol ever get naked?

[Rob Lister]

The name of the chick that fought with Kirk in the episode "Gamesters of ..." who went on to make hardcore porn. Also the last word of the title of the episode (Nyarl not eligible)

n.b. been waiting 8 years to ask that.

Angelique Pettyjohn
The Gamesters of Triskelion

[ed]

cheater.

[Rob Lister]

She was in repo man too.

[gnome]

Did the actress who played T'Pol ever get naked?

It seems so, in the movie Slow Burn.

But if you see the clip, it's disappointing... because an unclothed Jolene Blalock is an uncostumed Jolene Blalock and then she's not T'Pol anymore, just another model showing some skin in a love scene with limbs and sheets and a dude's back and whatever always getting in the way, ohh saw a tit for a moment there, yippee. Meh.

If you want to perv on T'Pol the best way is to watch the episode where she goes into pon farr. Which is ridiculous because canonically it's a male phenomenon, but just the same the result is way sexier than anything she did undressed.

[gnome]

The name of the chick that fought with Kirk in the episode "Gamesters of ..." who went on to make hardcore porn. Also the last word of the title of the episode (Nyarl not eligible)

n.b. been waiting 8 years to ask that.

Jeez, everything so far this time is about porn and people getting naked... just go watch Fuck Trek: The Back Doorening or whatever, SMDH.

Ah well, can't judge... and I promised to answer anything. Someone already got this one though.

[Doctor X]

Someone actually wants to raise Star Trek and porn?

Oh and nothing is "canonical" in Star Trek. For years fools--including the "official hack" who novelized movies while penning now tragically clueless fantasies about her and Sulu--claimed Vulcans cannot lie.

Spock lied all the time in the Japanese Original Star Trek. There is a joking nod to the stupidity in the second--and best--movie where a horrified thin Kirstie Alley Savik accuses him: "You lied!" to which Spock responds, "I exaggerated."

Hell, Kim Cattrall lied all over the place in her movie.

Dirty . . . dirty . . . lies. . . .

As for Pon Far only happening to men? The whole point of that episode is Spock's arranged wife wants another man in her pants. A Romulan captain is seduced by Spock--he can fake it--and, of course, there are scenes between Cattrall and Nimoy which shows her character enjoys a healthy Daddy Fetish.

Now the problem is because of the level of censorship Roddenbury and the Rest considered it "challenge accepted!" to put sex in the show. Hence Kirk landing every Alien and Non-Alien Babe with scene of him putting his boot on whilst she is brushing her hair. So you do not actually see Spock Dance the Light Fantastic with the Romulan but it is clear they are not engaging in foreplay to Scrabble.

Pon Far just seemed like a cool idea: playing with the prejudice that Vulcans being all logical and "no emotion" tend to schedule sex between balancing their checkbooks and organizing their ear-socks. No, they go at it like rabid bunnies to the level that even Kirk would step back and say, "woah . . . dude!"

In other words, fans over-think these things.

That Girl from Farscape noted in a commentary that their ship--which was alive--had these cool but dangerous spider-like lights. "Could cut yourself on that!" Ben Browder explained that the original idea was to have them alive as well--like a benign parasite or symbiote. So you would be sitting in the dark and one of them would scurry up to give light. This was considered too complicated and time consuming to which Ben noted, "and then we'd be in a convention and someone would ask, 'Uh in episode 37 when you're on the planet, that light crawls outs but when you look at episode 103 it's back! What happened?'"

Or as Shatner put it: "Get a life!"

--J.D.

[gnome]

Vonda Mcintyre... a very influential Trek writer, and probably the greatest source of "non canon" mistaken for canon-- like Savvik's half-Romulan ancestry.

My preferred approach is not to consider anything absolute, and just note where something comes from and go by how well it fits with other material.

[Doctor X]

I long suspected that Vonda was felating Roddenbury daily to "get the gig." His novelization of The Motionless Picture was not that bad given the material--or lack thereof. Should have gotten Allen Dean Foster. Vonda could not write about the feelings you get when falling if you tossed her out of an airplane.

It is kind of funny . . . novelizations . . . what is the point? It should be to give a bit more information and background, but it is usually just a money-grab. Foster's are interesting since his were based on early scripts so his The Thing is very different. Not as good as the eventual movie, but that is not his fault--they changed the plot substantially.

With Alien he retained some of the scenes cut like the cocooning of Dallas and Harry Dean Stanton. That was a "plot hole" in the movie.

Back to Trek, The Motionless Picture novelization brought out more of Kirk's issues with growing old, accepting promotion but feeling useless, and all of that which were eventually brought out in the second movie where the actors could actually play their characters. I sometimes think Lucas directed The Motionless Picture but there was no obviously racist stereotype in it that I can remember.

So I happily picked up the book for The Wrath of Khan . . . and tossed it away after about ten pages. Un . . . readable . . . drek.

--J.D.

[gnome]

She was the first Trek novelist I found, I enjoyed it mainly for the additional tidbits of story included, sort of like watching deleted scenes... but especially after reading others I see the weaknesses.

Another one I used to like but I find almost unreadable now is Diane Duane.

Current favorites: Greg Cox and Peter David

[Doctor X]

Must admit I have not read nor watched Star Trek in a very long time--pretty much after the good movies--the last of which being Star Trek VI--because Kim Cattrall. One of the best cast of the films.

I use to love tormenting New Trek fans trying to make excuses for it. The good shows were old Trek shows regurgitated. I love Sir Patrick as an actor--watch him toss people off his castle defending his daughter's honor! "If a BOY has been CHOSEN! I BOY SHALL BE KING!" Awesome actor.

Series? Meh.

It is sort of like Bond for me--time to move on to something new.

--J.D.

[gnome]

My favorite "non-canon" TOS is that novel which is the sequel to the episode about the Organians.

I say favorite but I don't remember the title or author. James Blish, maybe?

That would make the first of the old school Bantam books novel series--I think that would be Spock Must Die!, indeed written by James Blish.

Later books in that unofficial series were written by an author that started to inject WAY too much K/S shipping. Not explicit like fanfic stuff, but you could tell she wanted to. They were portrayed as so emotionally co-dependent that Richard Simmons would have insulted their manliness...