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NightG1
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Post by NightG1 »

Who played the original First Officer of The Enterprise?

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Abdul Alhazred
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Post by Abdul Alhazred »

It's pretty obvious from our few glimpses of the Vulcan home world that they are bronze-age savages.

The whole "logic" shtick is the result of an inferiority complex.
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The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
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gnome
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Post by gnome »

Nyarlathotep wrote:Okay, the ULTIMATE question.

Kirk or Picard ? Or Sisko? Or (if we must) Janeway or Archer.
Depends. If you want to know who I enjoyed the most from an entertainment standpoint, I'd say Sisko. If you're asking under whom I'd rather serve if I were a starfleet officer, I'd say Picard.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

Grammatron wrote:Did Q really talk to God?
I personally think he was bullshitting Picard.

As to whether "God" exists, of course the material is not definitive. It's been fairly established that the Judaeo-Christian religions have extraterrestrial origin. (As is so for the Greek pantheon)... the point is made above that in one of the novels Q associated with a being called The One (which eventually became the head-entity in Star Trek V)... so it could be said that Q has spoken to the entity that humans thought was God.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

Bearguin wrote:So, whats your opinion of Vulcans "knowing" god exists but still having issues with evil in the world (according to Spocks World).
I found an excerpt:
"Jim sat quiet for a moment, absorbing it. It would certainly explain the uncanny--un-Earthly--calm and serenity of many of the Vulcans he had met: they all seemed to carry some certainty around with them that everything was all right. If this was the root of it, he understood at least some of that serenity at last. But there were problems still. 'Spock,' he said, 'in the light of this, how do you explain someone like Shath?'

Spock looked a little somber. 'Captain,' he said, 'I think I can understand your viewpoint. Humans have no innate certainty on this subject and therefore must hink it would solve a great deal. In some ways it does. But there are many, many questions that this certainy still leaves unresolved, and more that it raises. Granted that God exists: why then does evil do so? Why is there entropy? Is the force that made the Universe one that we would term good? What is good? And if it is, why is pain permitted?...' "

"'...You see,' he said, for McCoy was nodding, 'they are all the same questions that humans ask, and no omre answered by a sense of the existence of God than of His nonexistence. Some of the answers are frightening. If God exists, and pain and evil exist, while God still seems to care for creation--for that sense is also part of the experience--then are we effectively 'on our own' in a universe run out of the control of its creator? Such a view of the world leaves much room for anger and aggression. We spent millennia at war, Captain, Doctor, despite the fact that almost every Vulcan born knew that a Force then extant had created the Universe, and now maintained it, from second to second. It takes more than the mere sense of God to create peace. One must decide what to do with the information.'
available here:

http://www.adherents.com/lit/Na/Na_503.html

I like Spock's viewpoint... that "knowing" that a creation force exist isn't useful in the face of the evidence that the universe contains evil and harm. I'm glad to see them applying logic even to that issue. On the other hand, just because they have this feeling doesn't mean they're right :)

Bear in mind the author here, Diane Duane, tends to inject her own metaphysics sometimes, and take it with a grain of salt.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Cool Hand
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Post by Cool Hand »

NightG1 wrote:Who played the original First Officer of The Enterprise?
Majel Barrett.

Shit, you just made me answer a fucking trekkie question. And I didn't have to look it up. Shit.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

"Time" -- Pink Floyd

Nyarlathotep
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

Okay, gnome. Trekker or Trekkie?

Or do you steer clear of that 'De-bakkle' too? :wink:

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

NightG1 wrote:Who played the original First Officer of The Enterprise?
It depends. If you go with technical fandom sources, multiple publications refer to the launch date of Enterprise as 2220, when the original first officer of the Enterprise, Shundresh, served under Captain Robert April.

If you accept Diane Carey's novel Final Frontier, the "Constitution" class had not yet been commissioned until as late as 2236 (in context) and Robert April took an early, non-commissioned version of the "Enterprise" (NCC-1700) on a secret mission with George Samual Kirk as first officer. This does not jibe with many other sources and I think it can be dismissed in favor of the more influential works.

Neither of these, of course, appeared on screen.

The first First officer to be "played" by someone was "Number One" in the pilot "The Cage", under Captain Christopher Pike. Some sources give her name as "Leigh Chapel", which is provocative as she was played by Majel Barrett. It would explain the resemblance :)

ETA: Kudos to Cool Hand for getting it first.
Last edited by gnome on Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:It's pretty obvious from our few glimpses of the Vulcan home world that they are bronze-age savages.

The whole "logic" shtick is the result of an inferiority complex.
I've often wondered where they keep the factories and infrastructure that supports the starships they've built. Or those fancy holographic computers they have :)

I've drawn the conclusion that what we've seen of Vulcan are the equivalents of rural areas. Parts of Spock's family's ancestral estate. Various temple grounds. Say, didn't the animated "Yesteryear" have a Vulcan city?

Image
Last edited by gnome on Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

Nyarlathotep wrote:Okay, gnome. Trekker or Trekkie?

Or do you steer clear of that 'De-bakkle' too? :wink:
A "Trekker" is just a Trekkie that somehow thinks that by adopting a different word he can divorce himself from the geekness of being a Star Trek fan. He is wrong. Embrace your geekiness!!!

"Dungeon masters don't have levels!! Dork!"
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Grammatron
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Post by Grammatron »

How come some places take weeks to get to and some take hours? Particularly on DS9

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

Grammatron wrote:How come some places take weeks to get to and some take hours? Particularly on DS9
Even at warp speed, the galaxy's pretty friggin huge. The range of time doesn't bother me, but there are lots of inconsistencies.

I believe it's actually been said by the writers that there usually isn't even an attempt to make the transit time consistent. They have the trip last as long as dramatically necessary for the episode.

For the most part I'm OK with this... hate to ruin the pacing by being rigid about how many light years away Rigel is... consider it a conceit to the storytelling medium.

ETA: I could lay some bullshit on you about how traveling in warp space distorts how far away certain stars are, but I think it would be clearly recognized as such.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Grammatron
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Post by Grammatron »

(I hope I'm not pestering you with all these questions)

I remember in one of the early TNG episodes they had a 3D holographic monitor where they would plot their destinations and such. Whatever happened to that thing?

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Cool Hand
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Post by Cool Hand »

Grammatron wrote:(I hope I'm not pestering you with all these questions)

I remember in one of the early TNG episodes they had a 3D holographic monitor where they would plot their destinations and such. Whatever happened to that thing?
They got OnStar and didn't need it anymore.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

"Time" -- Pink Floyd

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

Grammatron wrote:(I hope I'm not pestering you with all these questions)

I remember in one of the early TNG episodes they had a 3D holographic monitor where they would plot their destinations and such. Whatever happened to that thing?
You may have spotted something I didn't notice... can you remind me of where it was, what it looked like?

I do know that there was something similar used in Star Trek: Generations by Picard and Data to track the Space Ribbon (tm)
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

NightG1
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Post by NightG1 »

When Shatner was the host of SNL, he was in a skit called "Star Trek Convention" where he played himself. At a point during the Q&A, he looses it and starts berating the trekkies in attendance.

The funniest bit was when he asked one of the trekkies
You, you must be almost 30... have you ever kissed a girl?
Who was the SNL cast member Shatner was speaking to and what TOS character was he in costume as?

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Grammatron
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Post by Grammatron »

gnome wrote:
Grammatron wrote:(I hope I'm not pestering you with all these questions)

I remember in one of the early TNG episodes they had a 3D holographic monitor where they would plot their destinations and such. Whatever happened to that thing?
You may have spotted something I didn't notice... can you remind me of where it was, what it looked like?

I do know that there was something similar used in Star Trek: Generations by Picard and Data to track the Space Ribbon (tm)
They were sitting in the ready room at this table, at the center of the table there was a computer device. When activated, it displayed 3D holographic images with they used to plot their mission.

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

NightG1 wrote:When Shatner was the host of SNL, he was in a skit called "Star Trek Convention" where he played himself. At a point during the Q&A, he looses it and starts berating the trekkies in attendance.

The funniest bit was when he asked one of the trekkies
You, you must be almost 30... have you ever kissed a girl?
Who was the SNL cast member Shatner was speaking to and what TOS character was he in costume as?
John Lovitz... Spock...
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

Grammatron wrote:They were sitting in the ready room at this table, at the center of the table there was a computer device. When activated, it displayed 3D holographic images with they used to plot their mission.
Haven't heard any references to why this would have been abandoned, except that I know the CGI budget was tight for the first season, maybe they had to scrap that particular effect?

From a continuity standpoint I would say anything seen is probably still available, unless something specifically mentioned dismantling it.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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gnome
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Post by gnome »

NightG1 wrote:When Shatner was the host of SNL, he was in a skit called "Star Trek Convention" where he played himself. At a point during the Q&A, he looses it and starts berating the trekkies in attendance.

The funniest bit was when he asked one of the trekkies
You, you must be almost 30... have you ever kissed a girl?
Who was the SNL cast member Shatner was speaking to and what TOS character was he in costume as?
What's funny is I was just reviewing that sketch to answer your question... and noticing how many errors were made in the sketch...

Wow, I'm a dork.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2