Monster waves

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robinson
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Post by robinson »

Now here I go, being skeptical of the shrimpers. They could have found out about the wave on the radio, and made up a story just to get attention or have a little fun with the public.

So there I go doing the same thing I talked about. I mean, cmon, a giant splash? Big waves? That sounds crazy.

If something big fell in the ocean we would know about it. Our meteor defense network would have lit up like crazy.

And if it was a real Tsunami, our Atlantic Tsunami warning system would have gone off as well.
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Post by Geni »

Not that major compared to some.

When they were building the lighthouse on top of Muckle Flugga they got hit by a few waves going right over the rock. Muckle Flugga is about 60 meters high. Bishop Rock Lighthouse I think has been overtoped a few times.
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Post by Geni »

robinson wrote: Which illustrates the reason many people distrust and are skeptical of "scientist". Rather than investigate, try and discover the truth, they make claims with no evidence at all. And even worse, they use horrible reasoning to try and defend their stupidity.
Okey how would you investigate it. You have claims of a transitory events with no fixed patturn in terms of position or weather conditions.
A damaged ship, lives lost, and multiple eye witness accounts of a terrible freak wave that caused the event, IS evidence. Thousands of such reports, from all over the world, for thousands of years, is the kind if evidence people who live in reality understand.

Thousands? maybe 20 in the last century. Of those only a handful aproach solid reports. Video cameras were not common.
See? Using a horrible fallacy like, "Sailors also reported a lot of mermaids.", to shore up a claim is stupid. It is the sort of reasoning I mock people for.

That isn't an argument, a logical reason, or even close to scientific.

One could, if one was so inclined, use that sort of fallacy to dismiss everything else sailors reported, that you have no evidence for.

So just stop it.

You may not like it but history suggests that sailor testinomy hasn't always been the most reliable.
I mentioned the Daytona Beach wave, because it is about as solid a fact as one can find in the US, in recent history.

You can find the event listed by NOAA here
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/phi/reports/tsunami.htm

The event, which actually occurred, still baffles "scientist". A 27 mile long wave, from 10 to 20 feet high, (nobody is sure), smashed into a heavily populated beach area, at night. It swamped the fireworks barge, canceling the next evenings firework display. (The barge was anchored well offshore)
20 foot high shore breaking waves are well within the norm.
It injured at least 75 people, 20 of them needing emergency medical attention. It rushed up over 70 feet past the high water mark, smashing people into concrete seawalls, damaging beach equipment, smashing hundreds of cars and instilling sheer terror in those caught up in it.

For those not familiar with Daytona Beach, this was the night before the Fourth of July. The place was packed with party people, setting off fireworks on the beach. And doing other stuff. The ocean was flat. (This means no waves to speak of).

Nobody knows what caused the wave. The theory that it was an undersea landslide is not supported by seismic evidence, and the sea bottom there is very flat sand, no cliffs or other geology that lends itself to undersea slumping.

If it was a Tsunami, that doesn't change the facts. A really big freak wave hit the coastline with no warning, and it came out of nowhere. That is the definition of a freak wave.

You are missuseing the term freak wave.
Nobody knows what caused it. It was freak wave. There are historic reports of the same event on other beaches around the world.
Well yes tsunamis are well established.
To say nothing of the huge waves at sea.
Which are a completely seperate class of event and the actual subject of this thread.
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Post by robinson »

20 foot high waves on Florida beaches are almost unheard of. Even in Hurricanes we don't get 20 foot waves.

You don't know what you are talking about.

I usually ignore trolling, but due to my recent revelation about not being able to tell the difference between a troll and somebody who is just wrong, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt.

As to the "testimony" of sailors, it wasn't like they went before a court and gave testimony.

But, here is another example of the subtle yet common thing I see online.

You just made a huge claim. That all sailors in all times are unreliable witnesses to events as sea.

See? You made a wild ass claim. One you can't know. One you can't prove.
You may not like it but history suggests that sailor testinomy[sic] hasn't always been the most reliable.
That is an interesting claim however. Why do you think that?
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Post by EvilYeti »

robinson wrote: Considering that until 1995 "scientist" refused to believe in Freak waves at all, I don't listen to skeptics when they dismiss stuff they know nothing about.
Denial is not the same as skepticism.

I've often pointed out that being skeptical of a real, natural phenomenon can be a hell of alot more dangerous than believing in something wooish.

For example, say I believe in ghosts but am skeptical of vaccinations.
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Post by robinson »

Skeptical of vaccinations!! Burn him! Burn him! He's a witch!!


As for the term freak wave (the topic is monster waves), that is the term used in multiple reports. Freak wave is the same as Rouge wave, both can be monsters. Scary fucking monsters too. They can really kill you.
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Post by robinson »

EvilYeti wrote: Denial is not the same as skepticism.
To some people it is.

Side note, every time I see your avatar I think of that movie V for Vendetta.
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Post by EvilYeti »

robinson wrote:Skeptical of vaccinations!! Burn him! Burn him! He's a witch!!


As for the term freak wave (the topic is monster waves), that is the term used in multiple reports. Freak wave is the same as Rouge wave, both can be monsters. Scary fucking monsters too. They can really kill you.
Yes but they are different things than big waves or tsunamis.

I haven't looked at your clips yet, but some of those may just be big waves in rough seas.

The example you gave citing the 'splash' in the distance could very well have been a mega-tsunami caused by an asteroid impact. A mega-tsunami is unique in that its caused by displacement of surface water, vs. movement of the earths crust.
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Post by En folkefiende »

robinson wrote:. Our meteor defense network would have lit up like crazy.
Meteor defense network?

Whazzat?

You mean the ICY BM defense network?
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Post by En folkefiende »

robinson wrote:
EvilYeti wrote: Denial is not the same as skepticism.
To some people it is.

Side note, every time I see your avatar I think of that movie V for Vendetta.
With all due respect, Robinson, you're ignoring the simple FACT that when evidence (actual testable evidence, that is) arrived, the idea was accepted.

That's how science works.

Now, modelling waves, especially in shallower areas over uneven seafloor, is an "interesting" effort.

Would you like to try? :)
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Post by Geni »

robinson wrote: That is an interesting claim however. Why do you think that?

Large collection of reports of sea monsters ghost ships and for that matter ghosts in general.
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Post by EvilYeti »

robinson wrote:
EvilYeti wrote: Denial is not the same as skepticism.
To some people it is.

Side note, every time I see your avatar I think of that movie V for Vendetta.
I've spent a career unmasking denialist posing as skeptics for the frauds that they are.

I found my avatar by googling 'V for Vendetta avatar', so your observation is logical.
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Post by EvilYeti »

Geni wrote:
robinson wrote: That is an interesting claim however. Why do you think that?

Large collection of reports of sea monsters ghost ships and for that matter ghosts in general.
Well, we all know ghost pirates are real.
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Post by robinson »

Good one.

I think somebody imagines pirates when he hears the words "sailors". Historically, long distance sailing involved military ships, and merchant ships. Captains of both merchant and military ships are not only reliable witnesses, their log books are considered evidence in court.

Log books, kept by commanders of ocean going ships, are considered first rate evidence for a great many things.

Your reaching back and cherry picking stuff you heard, that has no evidence, is the sort of ridiculous thing you claim all sailors are known for doing.
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Post by robinson »

EvilYeti wrote: I've spent a career unmasking denialist posing as skeptics for the frauds that they are.
Does that pay well?

:D
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Post by EvilYeti »

robinson wrote:
EvilYeti wrote: I've spent a career unmasking denialist posing as skeptics for the frauds that they are.
Does that pay well?

:D
Well, my forum career.
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Post by robinson »

jj wrote: With all due respect, Robinson, you're ignoring the simple FACT that when evidence (actual testable evidence, that is) arrived, the idea was accepted.

That's how science works.
What idea are you talking about? Satellite data shows that Freak, or Rouge waves occur all the time, especially in certain areas. We even have a good idea about why now.

A Rouge wave was recorded by a ships captain in 1934, a Military commander, on a Navy vessel, the USS Ramapo. This is published in the US Naval Institute Proceedings, August 1934. The height was officially recorded at 113 feet. It was a rouge wave. The unofficial estimate was 130 feet, but that was based on comparing the ship, 120 feet long, to the wave. The ship easily fit on the side of the wave.

The Captain of the Queen Mary reported a freak wave that almost capsized the ship, with 15,000 troops on board. It did great damage to the ship, and was officially recorded at 75 feet. 1942.

You see, these are sailors. Who reported freak, or rouge waves, that damaged the ships, or endangered the crew. So when people say something stupid about sailors not being reliable, they sound dumb to me. I think they are trolling.

But again, maybe not. Maybe you really just don't know any better. But can anybody really be that stupid?

There are many more examples, but if those don't convince you, why waste time with a hundred more official logs?

Modern methods are far easier for everybody to witness of course.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spi ... 53,00.html
British ship

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_n7071517

Satellite data.

Awesome stuff.

Monsters I tell ya, there be monsters out there on the sea.

So while landlubbers, "scientist", were busy dismissing the very idea that rouge waves could exist, Captains and people who actually go out on the high seas were well aware of the reality, the dangers, as were ship builders.

One more reason "scientist" are considered full of shit by people who live in the real world.
Last edited by robinson on Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by robinson »

EvilYeti wrote:
robinson wrote:
EvilYeti wrote: I've spent a career unmasking denialist posing as skeptics for the frauds that they are.
Does that pay well?

:D
Well, my forum career.
heh

I knew that, just having a little fun in the midst of this tempest.

In a teacup.
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Post by En folkefiende »

robinson wrote:A Rouge wave
Usually they're green or blue! Any idea why the color?

As to your ignorant ranting about scientists, well, I realize that you want to tear down what science has brought you, and go back to pre-soap, pre-boiled-water days.

Tell you what, you go ahead.

Science, meanwhile, will move on unless the human race all decides to suicide with you.

And science still responds to evidence. Unlike you, who claim to know everything (or so you imply) about evidence from sea captains, science doesn't claim to know it all.
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Post by EvilYeti »

robinson wrote: So while landlubbers, "scientist", were busy dismissing the very idea that rouge waves could exist, Captains and people who actually go out on the high seas were well aware of the reality, the dangers, as were ship builders.

One more reason "scientist" are considered full of shit by people who live in the real world.
I don't believe any scientists have dismissed the idea that rogue waves could exist. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.

You sound like those guys that claim scientists are 'teh stoopid' because one guy said the earth might be in a cooling trend in the 70's.

Scientists, as a group, understand the natural world better than anyone else. Even those that spend a lifetime observing it first-hand, as they are limited by their own biases and frail human perceptions.
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Post by En folkefiende »

EvilYeti wrote:
robinson wrote: So while landlubbers, "scientist", were busy dismissing the very idea that rouge waves could exist, Captains and people who actually go out on the high seas were well aware of the reality, the dangers, as were ship builders.

One more reason "scientist" are considered full of shit by people who live in the real world.
I don't believe any scientists have dismissed the idea that rogue waves could exist. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.

You sound like those guys that claim scientists are 'teh stoopid' because one guy said the earth might be in a cooling trend in the 70's.

Scientists, as a group, understand the natural world better than anyone else. Even those that spend a lifetime observing it first-hand, as they are limited by their own biases and frail human perceptions.
So, ok, let's take all the sea captains' words at face value.

Now, where are the mermaids, sea monsters, floating islands, etc?

Anecdotes may often have some grain of truth. They may also involve nothing but perceptual error.
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Post by EvilYeti »

jj wrote: Now, where are the mermaids, sea monsters, floating islands, etc?
Arrr, be you callin' me a liar, whitebeard?
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Post by En folkefiende »

EvilYeti wrote:
jj wrote: Now, where are the mermaids, sea monsters, floating islands, etc?
Arrr, be you callin' me a liar, whitebeard?
Aye, matey, ye be decieved. Not deciever, but decieved. :p
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Post by TexasFevre »

robinson wrote:YouTube has multiple videos of Freak Waves hitting ships, even one of an offshore break.


Cruise ship nailed


Crab ship nailed


100 foot (?) monster captured by surfers


My favorite, clip stops when water smashes through the bridge windows

There are more. Some argue that they are not Freak waves, just big waves.

Considering that until 1995 "scientist" refused to believe in Freak waves at all, I don't listen to skeptics when they dismiss stuff they know nothing about.

Thousands of years of actual sailors, you know, people who actually sailed around on the ocean, for thousands of years they told about freak waves, and the terrible losses from them. Scientist refused to believe. They didn't just dismiss the entire history of eye witness accounts of them, they refused to believe it could even happen. It was a myth.

Last night I showed the clip of the cruise ship getting nailed, and was told that it wasn't a freak wave. Skeptics, even when you show them video, they think it is faked.


:D
You're not grossly generalizing from a sample of one or a few are you?

:D
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Post by sparks »

Robinson notes:
One more reason I am considered full of shit and a complete fucking troll by people who live in the real world.
Fixed that for ya. Dipshit.
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Post by robinson »

TexasFevre wrote:
You're not grossly generalizing from a sample of one or a few are you?

:D
TexasFevre!

Why yes, yes I was. But the quotes are the important part. Like McCaine's air quotes.

"scientist" isn't the same as scientist. "skeptics" are not the same as skeptics. It's all about the quotation marks.

OK I forgot the fucking quote marks in that post. Or that should be, I "forgot" the quote marks.

See? Just like some "skeptics" forget to provide sources for their claims. Then get all insulting when you point out they are doing stuff they don't like other people doing.

Don't matter. Monster waves are cool. Good topic.
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Post by ed »

Geni wrote:
robinson wrote: That is an interesting claim however. Why do you think that?

Large collection of reports of sea monsters ghost ships and for that matter ghosts in general.
Well, mermaids were manatees as I recall. Ghost ships exist, the Mary Celeste being the most famous. Sea monsters? Dunno. Jury's out I think. Proof of unicorns was the narwhal tusk.

Ocean is a sorta funny place and our sampling frame is, why, 1 % of it?
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Post by robinson »

jj wrote:So, ok, let's take all the sea captains' words at face value.

Now, where are the mermaids, sea monsters, floating islands, etc?
lulz!

If navy captains and merchant ships were reporting the things you keep harping on, there might be a problem dude.

Here's a clue. No captains of ships have reported any such things for hundreds and hundreds of years. Unlike damaging freak waves, which are well documented, and now even photographed from space.

Dragging in ancient myths to support whatever weird point you are trying to make is stupid.

I keep thinking you are trying to do some high level trolling. Because nobody can really be that dumb.
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Post by EvilYeti »

ed wrote: Well, mermaids were manatees as I recall.
Unfortunately, manatees are not mermaids, so mermaids don't exist.

Can imagine how bad you need to get laid when a manatee starts looking good?
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Post by robinson »

ed wrote: Sea monsters? Dunno. Jury's out I think. Proof of unicorns was the narwhal tusk.
I'm thinking you missed the story recently about the real unicorn they found. I hope not, because I don't want to go try and find it. But they really did find a one horned deer, in Italy If I recall. One horn, right in the middle of the head.

Sea monsters were probably whales, giant squids and that really creepy long fish they discovered off of japan.

There is a video of it on YouTube.

Giant squids. There is another natural event that "scientist" dismissed as fantasy. They even have fleeting pictures of it now.

What next? Some ancient fish older than the dinosaurs? Oh wait ...


hmmm .... extinct sharks?


No, they found those.

Hmm ... the Milky Sea! That old sailors yarn.

No damn it. They have a satellite photo of that now.


There must be something they were making up.
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Post by ed »

EvilYeti wrote:
ed wrote: Well, mermaids were manatees as I recall.
Unfortunately, manatees are not mermaids, so mermaids don't exist.
My point is simply that there was "something".
Can imagine how bad you need to get laid when a manatee starts looking good?
I was reading that Lord Nelson didn't set foot on land for 2 years or something horrible.

Actually, young manatees are sorta cute. Not for me, mind, I'm just sayin'.
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Post by ed »

robinson wrote:
ed wrote: Sea monsters? Dunno. Jury's out I think. Proof of unicorns was the narwhal tusk.
I'm thinking you missed the story recently about the real unicorn they found. I hope not, because I don't want to go try and find it. But they really did find a one horned deer, in Italy If I recall. One horn, right in the middle of the head.

Sea monsters were probably whales, giant squids and that really creepy long fish they discovered off of japan.

There is a video of it on YouTube.

Giant squids. There is another natural event that "scientist" dismissed as fantasy. They even have fleeting pictures of it now.

What next? Some ancient fish older than the dinosaurs? Oh wait ...


hmmm .... extinct sharks?


No, they found those.

Hmm ... the Milky Sea! That old sailors yarn.

No damn it. They have a satellite photo of that now.


There must be something they were making up.
Didn't those so called "scientists" deny the extra terrestriaal origen of meteorites?

Bastards I tell you!!! Bastards!!!
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Post by robinson »

Don't get me started.
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Post by En folkefiende »

robinson wrote:Don't get me started.
Perhaps you ought to get started on the differences between observation, confirmation, and testability.

So do, please, start.
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Post by ed »

Testicles???

What?

What?
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Post by EvilYeti »

I've figured it out.

Rogue waves are caused by sea monsters having sex with mermaids on floating islands.

I'm drawing some pictures now in microsoft paint and will post the evidence shortly.
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Post by ed »

As long as there is evidences

err

am evidences ...
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Post by TexasFevre »

robinson wrote:
TexasFevre wrote:
You're not grossly generalizing from a sample of one or a few are you?

:D
TexasFevre!

Why yes, yes I was. But the quotes are the important part. Like McCaine's air quotes.

"scientist" isn't the same as scientist. "skeptics" are not the same as skeptics. It's all about the quotation marks.

OK I forgot the fucking quote marks in that post. Or that should be, I "forgot" the quote marks.

See? Just like some "skeptics" forget to provide sources for their claims. Then get all insulting when you point out they are doing stuff they don't like other people doing.

Don't matter. Monster waves are cool. Good topic.
Dude, that's uncool. Now you've got me reading shit while picturing someone doing the quote hand signs. . . I'm also hearing (in my head reading voice) the difference that people make with their voice between saying something and "saying" something. :x

I'm declaring a Jisade Cruhad on you now. :lol:
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Post by Badger »

EvilYeti wrote:
Can imagine how bad you need to get laid when a manatee starts looking good?
Yes, you bastard! Yes, indeed, I can! :sadbanana:


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Post by robinson »

TexasFevre wrote:
Dude, that's uncool. Now you've got me reading shit while picturing someone doing the quote hand signs. . . I'm also hearing (in my head reading voice) the difference that people make with their voice between saying something and "saying" something. :x

I'm declaring a Jisade Cruhad on you now. :lol:
Well you started it. Every time I read your posts I picture you (based on your avatar) rocking out to music and ending with, "dude". Garth style.

Make it stop.
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