Monster waves

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Post by En folkefiende »

EvilYeti wrote:
robinson wrote: So while landlubbers, "scientist", were busy dismissing the very idea that rouge waves could exist, Captains and people who actually go out on the high seas were well aware of the reality, the dangers, as were ship builders.

One more reason "scientist" are considered full of shit by people who live in the real world.
I don't believe any scientists have dismissed the idea that rogue waves could exist. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.

You sound like those guys that claim scientists are 'teh stoopid' because one guy said the earth might be in a cooling trend in the 70's.

Scientists, as a group, understand the natural world better than anyone else. Even those that spend a lifetime observing it first-hand, as they are limited by their own biases and frail human perceptions.
So, ok, let's take all the sea captains' words at face value.

Now, where are the mermaids, sea monsters, floating islands, etc?

Anecdotes may often have some grain of truth. They may also involve nothing but perceptual error.
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Post by EvilYeti »

jj wrote: Now, where are the mermaids, sea monsters, floating islands, etc?
Arrr, be you callin' me a liar, whitebeard?
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Post by En folkefiende »

EvilYeti wrote:
jj wrote: Now, where are the mermaids, sea monsters, floating islands, etc?
Arrr, be you callin' me a liar, whitebeard?
Aye, matey, ye be decieved. Not deciever, but decieved. :p
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Post by TexasFevre »

robinson wrote:YouTube has multiple videos of Freak Waves hitting ships, even one of an offshore break.


Cruise ship nailed


Crab ship nailed


100 foot (?) monster captured by surfers


My favorite, clip stops when water smashes through the bridge windows

There are more. Some argue that they are not Freak waves, just big waves.

Considering that until 1995 "scientist" refused to believe in Freak waves at all, I don't listen to skeptics when they dismiss stuff they know nothing about.

Thousands of years of actual sailors, you know, people who actually sailed around on the ocean, for thousands of years they told about freak waves, and the terrible losses from them. Scientist refused to believe. They didn't just dismiss the entire history of eye witness accounts of them, they refused to believe it could even happen. It was a myth.

Last night I showed the clip of the cruise ship getting nailed, and was told that it wasn't a freak wave. Skeptics, even when you show them video, they think it is faked.


:D
You're not grossly generalizing from a sample of one or a few are you?

:D
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Post by sparks »

Robinson notes:
One more reason I am considered full of shit and a complete fucking troll by people who live in the real world.
Fixed that for ya. Dipshit.
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Post by robinson »

TexasFevre wrote:
You're not grossly generalizing from a sample of one or a few are you?

:D
TexasFevre!

Why yes, yes I was. But the quotes are the important part. Like McCaine's air quotes.

"scientist" isn't the same as scientist. "skeptics" are not the same as skeptics. It's all about the quotation marks.

OK I forgot the fucking quote marks in that post. Or that should be, I "forgot" the quote marks.

See? Just like some "skeptics" forget to provide sources for their claims. Then get all insulting when you point out they are doing stuff they don't like other people doing.

Don't matter. Monster waves are cool. Good topic.
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Post by ed »

Geni wrote:
robinson wrote: That is an interesting claim however. Why do you think that?

Large collection of reports of sea monsters ghost ships and for that matter ghosts in general.
Well, mermaids were manatees as I recall. Ghost ships exist, the Mary Celeste being the most famous. Sea monsters? Dunno. Jury's out I think. Proof of unicorns was the narwhal tusk.

Ocean is a sorta funny place and our sampling frame is, why, 1 % of it?
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Post by robinson »

jj wrote:So, ok, let's take all the sea captains' words at face value.

Now, where are the mermaids, sea monsters, floating islands, etc?
lulz!

If navy captains and merchant ships were reporting the things you keep harping on, there might be a problem dude.

Here's a clue. No captains of ships have reported any such things for hundreds and hundreds of years. Unlike damaging freak waves, which are well documented, and now even photographed from space.

Dragging in ancient myths to support whatever weird point you are trying to make is stupid.

I keep thinking you are trying to do some high level trolling. Because nobody can really be that dumb.
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Post by EvilYeti »

ed wrote: Well, mermaids were manatees as I recall.
Unfortunately, manatees are not mermaids, so mermaids don't exist.

Can imagine how bad you need to get laid when a manatee starts looking good?
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Post by robinson »

ed wrote: Sea monsters? Dunno. Jury's out I think. Proof of unicorns was the narwhal tusk.
I'm thinking you missed the story recently about the real unicorn they found. I hope not, because I don't want to go try and find it. But they really did find a one horned deer, in Italy If I recall. One horn, right in the middle of the head.

Sea monsters were probably whales, giant squids and that really creepy long fish they discovered off of japan.

There is a video of it on YouTube.

Giant squids. There is another natural event that "scientist" dismissed as fantasy. They even have fleeting pictures of it now.

What next? Some ancient fish older than the dinosaurs? Oh wait ...


hmmm .... extinct sharks?


No, they found those.

Hmm ... the Milky Sea! That old sailors yarn.

No damn it. They have a satellite photo of that now.


There must be something they were making up.
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Post by ed »

EvilYeti wrote:
ed wrote: Well, mermaids were manatees as I recall.
Unfortunately, manatees are not mermaids, so mermaids don't exist.
My point is simply that there was "something".
Can imagine how bad you need to get laid when a manatee starts looking good?
I was reading that Lord Nelson didn't set foot on land for 2 years or something horrible.

Actually, young manatees are sorta cute. Not for me, mind, I'm just sayin'.
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Post by ed »

robinson wrote:
ed wrote: Sea monsters? Dunno. Jury's out I think. Proof of unicorns was the narwhal tusk.
I'm thinking you missed the story recently about the real unicorn they found. I hope not, because I don't want to go try and find it. But they really did find a one horned deer, in Italy If I recall. One horn, right in the middle of the head.

Sea monsters were probably whales, giant squids and that really creepy long fish they discovered off of japan.

There is a video of it on YouTube.

Giant squids. There is another natural event that "scientist" dismissed as fantasy. They even have fleeting pictures of it now.

What next? Some ancient fish older than the dinosaurs? Oh wait ...


hmmm .... extinct sharks?


No, they found those.

Hmm ... the Milky Sea! That old sailors yarn.

No damn it. They have a satellite photo of that now.


There must be something they were making up.
Didn't those so called "scientists" deny the extra terrestriaal origen of meteorites?

Bastards I tell you!!! Bastards!!!
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Post by robinson »

Don't get me started.
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Post by En folkefiende »

robinson wrote:Don't get me started.
Perhaps you ought to get started on the differences between observation, confirmation, and testability.

So do, please, start.
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Post by ed »

Testicles???

What?

What?
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Post by EvilYeti »

I've figured it out.

Rogue waves are caused by sea monsters having sex with mermaids on floating islands.

I'm drawing some pictures now in microsoft paint and will post the evidence shortly.
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Post by ed »

As long as there is evidences

err

am evidences ...
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Post by TexasFevre »

robinson wrote:
TexasFevre wrote:
You're not grossly generalizing from a sample of one or a few are you?

:D
TexasFevre!

Why yes, yes I was. But the quotes are the important part. Like McCaine's air quotes.

"scientist" isn't the same as scientist. "skeptics" are not the same as skeptics. It's all about the quotation marks.

OK I forgot the fucking quote marks in that post. Or that should be, I "forgot" the quote marks.

See? Just like some "skeptics" forget to provide sources for their claims. Then get all insulting when you point out they are doing stuff they don't like other people doing.

Don't matter. Monster waves are cool. Good topic.
Dude, that's uncool. Now you've got me reading shit while picturing someone doing the quote hand signs. . . I'm also hearing (in my head reading voice) the difference that people make with their voice between saying something and "saying" something. :x

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Post by Badger »

EvilYeti wrote:
Can imagine how bad you need to get laid when a manatee starts looking good?
Yes, you bastard! Yes, indeed, I can! :sadbanana:


:Waaaah:
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Post by robinson »

TexasFevre wrote:
Dude, that's uncool. Now you've got me reading shit while picturing someone doing the quote hand signs. . . I'm also hearing (in my head reading voice) the difference that people make with their voice between saying something and "saying" something. :x

I'm declaring a Jisade Cruhad on you now. :lol:
Well you started it. Every time I read your posts I picture you (based on your avatar) rocking out to music and ending with, "dude". Garth style.

Make it stop.
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

EvilYeti wrote:I've figured it out.

Rogue waves are caused by sea monsters having sex with mermaids on floating islands.

I'm drawing some pictures now in microsoft paint and will post the evidence shortly.
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Post by hammegk »

Badger wrote:
EvilYeti wrote:
Can imagine how bad you need to get laid when a manatee starts looking good?
Yes, you bastard! Yes, indeed, I can! :sadbanana:


:Waaaah:
FTW!

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Post by Geni »

ed wrote:
Geni wrote:
robinson wrote: That is an interesting claim however. Why do you think that?

Large collection of reports of sea monsters ghost ships and for that matter ghosts in general.
Well, mermaids were manatees as I recall.
Suggestion has been made seems unlikely
Ghost ships exist, the Mary Celeste being the most famous.
Not that type of ghost ship more flying dutchmen I thinking of.
Ocean is a sorta funny place and our sampling frame is, why, 1 % of it?
It has been even lower in centuries past so the odds of something significant existing that has been reported in past centures are getting smaller.
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Post by Geni »

robinson wrote: Giant squids. There is another natural event that "scientist" dismissed as fantasy. They even have fleeting pictures of it now.
Um no. We've had an actual bit of one since 1861. Papers on the things predate that. The challange for the last century or so was trying to find complete ones and live ones.

What next? Some ancient fish older than the dinosaurs? Oh wait ...
Sailors never claimed that.
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Post by Geni »

robinson wrote:Good one.

I think somebody imagines pirates when he hears the words "sailors". Historically, long distance sailing involved military ships, and merchant ships. Captains of both merchant and military ships are not only reliable witnesses, their log books are considered evidence in court.
Columbus reported seeing mermaids.

See the thing about the big wave storys was there were never very many that could be pinned down and do you know how many included a claim of a reliable hight measurement? 1.
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Post by robinson »

EvilYeti wrote:I don't believe any scientists have dismissed the idea that rogue waves could exist. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.
If you really want to learn something about it. You can simply Google it.

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Last edited by robinson on Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by EvilYeti »

robinson wrote:
EvilYeti wrote:I don't believe any scientists have dismissed the idea that rogue waves could exist. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.
Insane ramblings of the mentally ill deleted.
Most importantly, you need to see a psychiatrist.

Beyond that, I've studied oceanography and worked at the Scripps Institute of Oceanography in La Jolla, California.

My office was down the hall from that of Walter Munk's, whom is generally credited with *inventing* the field of physical oceanography.

I've worked on broadband seismic networks and for awhile even played with the data feed from the Pacific tsunami warning network just for fun.

And I'm saying you are full of shit; re: your claims regarding scientific opinion.

Scientists are concerned only with what they can measure and quantify. Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal.

This goes for rogue waves and mermaids alike. And I'm sure, if pressed, oceanographers pre: 1995 would have said rogue waves were more likely to exist. However, many of them won't comment on anything unless its been published in a peer-reviewed journal.

It's precisely this sort of commitment to rigorous methodology, in fact, that ultimately proved rogue waves exist. Notice that pirates, sailors, sea captains, surfer dudes and anonymous net kooks like yourself contribute nothing but noise.

I did, however, see this quote in the wiki article:
Once thought by scientists to exist only in legends, rogue waves are now known to be a natural ocean phenomenon. Anecdotal evidence from mariners' testimonies and damages inflicted on ships have long suggested they occurred; however, their scientific measurement was only positively confirmed following measurements of the "Draupner wave", a rogue wave at the Draupner oil platform, in the North Sea on January 1, 1995. During this event, minor damage was inflicted on the platform, confirming that the reading was valid.
No scientist would say they didn't or couldn't exist. They merely said they were skeptical that they *did* exist. It's a subtle but important difference.

Regardless, you reek of envy and failure; like all the other lulzers.
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Post by En folkefiende »

robinson wrote:
EvilYeti wrote:I don't believe any scientists have dismissed the idea ...
But you know, once a year it's sort of fun to encourage them.
Lad, are you drunk?
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Post by EvilYeti »

jj wrote:
robinson wrote:
EvilYeti wrote:I don't believe any scientists have dismissed the idea ...
But you know, once a year it's sort of fun to encourage them.
Lad, are you drunk?
He's a hater. Can't stand that anyone else is smarter or more successful than he is.

The world is full of 'em.
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Post by robinson »

jj wrote:
robinson wrote:
EvilYeti wrote:I don't believe any scientists have dismissed the idea ...
But you know, once a year it's sort of fun to encourage them.
Lad, are you drunk?
I don't drink or take any intoxicants. I did eat fish last night. Never again.

:D
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Post by ed »

EvilYeti wrote: Scientists are concerned only with what they can parlay into tenure and gets them laid.
fixed it for ya.
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Post by EvilYeti »

ed wrote:
EvilYeti wrote: Scientists are concerned only with what they can parlay into tenure and gets them laid.
fixed it for ya.
Tenure is for teachers, not researchers (you can be both). And there are much better ways to get laid then getting a PhD.
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Post by robinson »

I just now had a very interesting and informative conversation with a couple of friends, both of whom are Navy and Coast Guard.

I asked them about rogue waves (that is the term Navy/Coast guard uses it turns out).

And learned all kind of interesting stuff. From two people who know a good deal about the real world, and the sea.

First, in the past one reason captains reports of ship damage from rogue waves was dismissed as made up by review boards. They always blamed the captain for any damage, dismissing reports of freakish large waves as excuses to avoid reprisals.

Crew testimony was also dismissed as protecting the captain.

Second, Coast Guard helicopters are also lost at sea with no warning, while flying low on rescue missions.

In fact, my friends college room mate died in a training exercise on a Coast Guard chopper. It was determined, by forensic analysis and black box data that they ran into a rogue wave.

Now they think all the sudden disappearances from the past can be explained by rogue waves. Until recently equipment failure or pilot error was blamed for helicopters vanishing without a mayday. Both explanation never really satisfied investigators.

Recent data shows these monster waves occur far more often than anyone thought. Software and radar to predict them is a high priority item, and design of both ships as well as oil rigs is being changed.

I was surprised to learn the consensus of Coast Guard insiders is that the Edmund Fitzgerald is believed to be a victim of a rogue wave. The ship was in good shape and capable of riding out the storm, and no mayday was received before the sudden loss.

They (my friends) explained how these waves destroy ships. Smaller ships can't make the face, no matter how much power they apply, and fall backwards. Assuming they are even facing into the wave.

Larger ships suffer either extreme pressure from being submerged, bursting bulkheads and seams, or if bigger than the wave, they break their back.

This means the hull loses support and the ship breaks in two. I did not realize that. It was also explained how modern torpedoes use this to sink ships, rather than try and plow through the hull, the explode under a ship, creating a huge bubble of air, which causes the ship to break in half.

Fascinating stuff. There was more, but it was off topic stuff.
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Post by ed »

EvilYeti wrote:
ed wrote:
EvilYeti wrote: Scientists are concerned only with what they can parlay into tenure and gets them laid.
fixed it for ya.
Tenure is for teachers, not researchers (you can be both). And there are much better ways to get laid then getting a PhD.
87% of research is thru universities.
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Post by robinson »

I had no idea how many ships are mysteriously lost at sea. One or two a week.

And a lot of them have been really big ships.
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Post by robinson »

hammegk wrote:Discovery Channel or some such has a nice documentary on the subject.
I saw that show. It's funny, YouTube has better videos of monster waves than that entire show.

But the explanation of how the monster wave stole energy from the other waves was cool.
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Post by ed »

ed wrote:
EvilYeti wrote:
ed wrote:
EvilYeti wrote: Scientists are concerned only with what they can parlay into tenure and gets them laid.
fixed it for ya.
Tenure is for teachers, not researchers (you can be both). And there are much better ways to get laid then getting a PhD.
87% of research is thru universities.
I just made that stat up btw.

When discussions get too tedious I often do that.

I find that if you do it with impunity you can get away with it 97% of the time.

I made that one up too.

Ta.
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Post by robinson »

Halloween is over. Time to lose your pumpkin head.
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Post by robinson »

Found the BBC documentary on this.
- Part 1, links to the other parts from there

Ed, I wouldn't watch this, it will give you nightmares

Yeti, you shouldn't watch either. It makes you look dumb. Or was that jj?

Cool video of a rogue wave breaking over an aircraft carrier
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