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Luke T.
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For Xouper, TamiO, and Whoever Else I Have Pissed Off

Post by Luke T. »

Sundog has gotten to me.

I have been out of line. My behavior has been very hypocritical. I have reached a point where I have two choices. Either put you all on Ignore and sulk, or break down and try to come to some kind of peace with all of you.

It is against my principles to put someone on Ignore, and since I don't have many unsullied principles left, I need to hold on to the ones I have. Besides, sulking is unhealthy.

I guess that is also why I have been unsuccessful in my attempts in saying to hell with both forums and walking away forever. Too many sins I have committed for me to run away from and feel clean about it.

Xouper, you have been amazingly patient with me, and have made several attempts to reach out to me, and I have slapped your hand every time.

I have had to make the admission to myself that I have been walking around thinking I know what's best for JREF. I love that place so much. But all I have accomplished is to increase the very friction I complain about so much.

I have formed very powerful convictions and opinions, which is endangering my own self-image as a skeptic. To tell you the truth, I know deep down in my heart that you are a good person, Xouper, and have a helpful spirit as strong as mine. And that truth has been the burr in my saddle all this time.

TamiO, I don't even know where to begin. Our conflicts have been more personal than anything else. Ugliest part of this whole mess.

I guess the best course for me to take right now is to avoid those topics which hold any potential for excessive negative emotion.

Sundog is my conscience. No way I'll vote for Kerry, though.
[size=75]"it seems you don't believe how your enviroment of smells affects for a young ones.how many young girl are are in just involved in porn industry just because of lack of natural smells" - pillory (7/13/02)[/size]

I [size=167]♣[/size]69dodge

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Luke T.
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Post by Luke T. »

TamiO has just posted on JREF she won't believe I am reformed, for want of a better expression, until enough time has passed and I have not returned to my negative behaviors.

Fair enough.
[size=75]"it seems you don't believe how your enviroment of smells affects for a young ones.how many young girl are are in just involved in porn industry just because of lack of natural smells" - pillory (7/13/02)[/size]

I [size=167]♣[/size]69dodge

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LizardPeople
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Post by LizardPeople »

The LizardPeople still love you, and that should be enough love for anybody.
Sunshine and Flies

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Cloverlief
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Post by Cloverlief »

Tell you the truth, Luke, I don't always agree with you, but I would rather read your posts than Tamio's smear campaign posts any day. So, who gives a flying fruit loop whether she or xouper or anyone else likes you? Be you.
Chani

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Luke T.
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Post by Luke T. »

Chanileslie wrote:Tell you the truth, Luke, I don't always agree with you, but I would rather read your posts than Tamio's smear campaign posts any day. So, who gives a flying fruit loop whether she or xouper or anyone else likes you? Be you.
I'm not trying to get Xouper or TamiO to like me. I'm am trying to stop being something I don't like. And I am not here to point out anyone else's faults but my own.
[size=75]"it seems you don't believe how your enviroment of smells affects for a young ones.how many young girl are are in just involved in porn industry just because of lack of natural smells" - pillory (7/13/02)[/size]

I [size=167]♣[/size]69dodge

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Hexxenhammer
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Post by Hexxenhammer »

LizardPeople wrote:The LizardPeople still love you, and that should be enough love for anybody.
There's no love like lizard love.

Luke, you're a nut. You worry way to much about this stuff. You're a good guy, even if you let your temper get the best of you. We're all hypocrites. If someone says they're not a hypocrite, that's how you know they are.
"I'll have the roast duck with the mango salsa."

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xouper
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Post by xouper »

Chanileslie wrote:Tell you the truth, Luke, I don't always agree with you, but I would rather read your posts than Tamio's smear campaign posts any day. So, who gives a flying fruit loop whether she or xouper or anyone else likes you? Be you.
Actually I do like Luke, and have for as long as I've known him on the jref forum. He and I don't always agree, but I too have felt deep down that Luke is a good person. In fact, to anyone who has known Luke for any length of time, I suspect it's pretty obvious that he's a good person. So I'm certainly willing to take him at his word that he wants to make peace, because that's the kind of guy I think he really is.

Consider it done, Luke. Peace. And I apologize for all the crap I've posted at you.

And Chani, may I infer that your advice to "be you" applies to me as well? Or do you make an exception in my case? :)

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Quester_X
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Post by Quester_X »

Your idea is a good one, Luke. Take a break from those topics that are causing problems for you. You've got a great sense of humor, and I for one enjoy reading some of your lighter-hearted stuff. Go easy on yourself, the only thing that comes from being overly critical of yourself is stress. I know, trust me.
You'll all be mine, in the end.

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Cool Hand
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Post by Cool Hand »

Luke,

It takes a big man to admit that he's wrong and to show humility like you have done. Your apologies are no doubt sincere and I hope everyone accepts them.

I have always liked and respected you and believed you to be a decent, principled, and good man. I have never doubted those things and still don't.

Hell, many of us lose our tempers from time to time, and I am certainly no exception. There is no shame in that or in being human.

What I guess I am trying to say is don't be so hard on yourself, my friend. You speak your mind and you believe in what you say. That's terrific.

Take a deep breath, and keep your perspective. You have a great family and a good career. That's more than so many people have and for that you should be very proud and grateful.

Take care of them and yourself. Keep posting, buddy. I'll always read your posts and try to interact with you when I can.

Cool Hand
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

"Time" -- Pink Floyd

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Cloverlief
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Post by Cloverlief »

xouper wrote:
Chanileslie wrote:Tell you the truth, Luke, I don't always agree with you, but I would rather read your posts than Tamio's smear campaign posts any day. So, who gives a flying fruit loop whether she or xouper or anyone else likes you? Be you.
Actually I do like Luke, and have for as long as I've known him on the jref forum. He and I don't always agree, but I too have felt deep down that Luke is a good person. In fact, to anyone who has known Luke for any length of time, I suspect it's pretty obvious that he's a good person. So I'm certainly willing to take him at his word that he wants to make peace, because that's the kind of guy I think he really is.

Consider it done, Luke. Peace. And I apologize for all the crap I've posted at you.

And Chani, may I infer that your advice to "be you" applies to me as well? Or do you make an exception in my case? :)
When you ask for people's opinions, you should expect to be given their opinions. I am very open about that. It is up to you whether you want to accept those opinions or reject them or become defensive about them.

That said, in answer to your question, yes, you may infer that my advice to "be you" applies to you and everyone else. But I will tell you the same thing I tell my 14 year old, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism. Freedom to be yourself does not mean that you will be unanimously liked either.
Chani

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tamiO
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Post by tamiO »

I like you Luke. I like a lot of people who started attacking me; that's what has been so hard for me to deal with. I fought for the good things JREF used to stand for and spoke out against the ways the JREF staff's decisions, actions and policies were undermining the good name and reputation the JREF had built. The fight is over. I lost. I guess we all lost.

Thanks for calling a cease fire. I wish you had decided to do this months ago, but that's over and this is now.

I think we can move forward and focus on what we have in common instead of our differences. I am willing to give it a shot :)

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xouper
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Post by xouper »

Chanileslie wrote:... freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism. Freedom to be yourself does not mean that you will be unanimously liked either.
Of course. And I have not argued otherwise. Why did you suppose I did not already know both those things?

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tamiO
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Post by tamiO »

Chanileslie wrote:Tell you the truth, Luke, I don't always agree with you, but I would rather read your posts than Tamio's smear campaign posts any day. So, who gives a flying fruit loop whether she or xouper or anyone else likes you? Be you.
Wow. Nice way to take a dump on a thread aimed at peace. How long are you going to keep attacking me? Your smear campaign against me is getting old.

En folkefiende
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Post by En folkefiende »

tamiO wrote:
Chanileslie wrote:Tell you the truth, Luke, I don't always agree with you, but I would rather read your posts than Tamio's smear campaign posts any day. So, who gives a flying fruit loop whether she or xouper or anyone else likes you? Be you.
Wow. Nice way to take a dump on a thread aimed at peace. How long are you going to keep attacking me? Your smear campaign against me is getting old.
Burn, baby, Burn!

Luke, USE IGNORE. It's not unprincipled to ignore intrangensence.
Formerly jj, the enemy of the people, aka the bullies who rant and lie here.

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Post by En folkefiende »

Luke, you lost your temper in the face of what I personally regard as positively insane criticism.

Just ignore the people who do it. I have Shane the Pain on ignore over there, I'm tired of the sniveling little coward calling everyone a liar. I haven't put TamiO on ignore, or Raw Blister, or Patrick, (over at TOP, that is) because the statement below is one of my principles.

A simple "I get really steamed when bullies try to push me around" would suffice, and that's not even an apology, nor, in my opinion, should it be.

I'd even go for "never give a bully an even break".
Formerly jj, the enemy of the people, aka the bullies who rant and lie here.

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Cloverlief
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Post by Cloverlief »

tamiO wrote:
Chanileslie wrote:Tell you the truth, Luke, I don't always agree with you, but I would rather read your posts than Tamio's smear campaign posts any day. So, who gives a flying fruit loop whether she or xouper or anyone else likes you? Be you.
Wow. Nice way to take a dump on a thread aimed at peace. How long are you going to keep attacking me? Your smear campaign against me is getting old.
Mhhmmmm.
Chani

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Post by En folkefiende »

Chanileslie wrote:
tamiO wrote:
Chanileslie wrote:Tell you the truth, Luke, I don't always agree with you, but I would rather read your posts than Tamio's smear campaign posts any day. So, who gives a flying fruit loop whether she or xouper or anyone else likes you? Be you.
Wow. Nice way to take a dump on a thread aimed at peace. How long are you going to keep attacking me? Your smear campaign against me is getting old.
Mhhmmmm.
Like the lady said, JUST like the lady said.

"Never give a bully an even break" - jj
Formerly jj, the enemy of the people, aka the bullies who rant and lie here.

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Luke T.
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Post by Luke T. »

jj wrote:
Chanileslie wrote:
tamiO wrote:
Chanileslie wrote:Tell you the truth, Luke, I don't always agree with you, but I would rather read your posts than Tamio's smear campaign posts any day. So, who gives a flying fruit loop whether she or xouper or anyone else likes you? Be you.
Wow. Nice way to take a dump on a thread aimed at peace. How long are you going to keep attacking me? Your smear campaign against me is getting old.
Mhhmmmm.
Like the lady said, JUST like the lady said.

"Never give a bully an even break" - jj
jj, it is a very tired cliche, but still true that "it takes two to tango."

And I don't think it is possible to be irately combative with one or just a few persons and not have that seep into my behavior with all persons eventually. And I have noticed that is exactly what has been happening.

I don't think putting someone on Ignore will solve it. The character flaw that resulted in being overly combative will still be there, waiting for a new target.
[size=75]"it seems you don't believe how your enviroment of smells affects for a young ones.how many young girl are are in just involved in porn industry just because of lack of natural smells" - pillory (7/13/02)[/size]

I [size=167]♣[/size]69dodge

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Post by Rosencrantz »

Luke,

I couldn't figure out where you were coming from in Soubrette's thread about posting to ask people to stop posting. I don't know you very well at all, but it sounds like you've been having difficulties, and I sympathize with you.

You might want to think about some of the topics here and at JREF that have upset you and consider whether or not you are willing (and able) to discuss them again. I think one of the things that skeptics really like is when someone is willing to reconsider arguments, even months later, and they especially like when a person posts that on reflection they have changed their mind, perhaps because of those arguments. Giving people little "skeptical victories" like that might help the people who you have offended (and been offended by) admire and respect you even more.

For example, perhaps you might now agree that not everyone who has an interest in xouper's banning is simply enjoying watching a tawdry drama unfold, in the same way that many people watched S.O.B. just to see Julie Andrews take off her clothes. Or perhaps you might still think that, but don't feel as strongly about it as you do other issues, and so are willing to grant that you could be mistaken. I think concessions like these would go a long way towards demonstrating your peaceful resolve.

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Post by En folkefiende »

Luke T. wrote: jj, it is a very tired cliche, but still true that "it takes two to tango."

[/b]
Well, the saying is obviously wrong, just look at the present political performance. (I won't call it a campaign.)


And I don't think it is possible to be irately combative with one or just a few persons and not have that seep into my behavior with all persons eventually. And I have noticed that is exactly what has been happening.


Hmm. I won't speak for you on this matter, you get to decide.


I don't think putting someone on Ignore will solve it. The character flaw that resulted in being overly combative will still be there, waiting for a new target.


Luke, I don't think that's being fair to yourself. Ignore the bridge-burners. They will never go anywhere, because they'll have the whole world peeved at them.
Formerly jj, the enemy of the people, aka the bullies who rant and lie here.