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Skeeve
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Post by Skeeve »

Rosencrantz wrote:This is so amazingly silly. Having read at least two threads where Skeeve has posted a response for jj and then jj jumps in to get mad at Skeeve for trying to make it look like she's his sock, ...
Hey, I'm good! :P

Luke T, seriously, I shouldn't have messed up your thread. I don't understand all the issues, but you seem like a reasonable, sincere person to me, and I don't understand the hostility that I feel I suppose it could be me coming from others toward you.
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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viscousmemories
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Post by viscousmemories »

Andalyn wrote:
viscousmemories wrote:
Andalyn wrote:Remember - the claim was that Skeeve FIRST stated that TamiO called him GP.
Well as long as you're going to keep shitting on Luke's thread, I might as well try to help clean it up. Who made that claim and where?
LOL Tomas...

Here:

http://skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/vi ... 0897#10897
livius drusus wrote: Sigh...

Tami suggested that you were a sock. Period. You're the one who said she was accusing you of being Genghis. I imagine she thought you were jj all along.
Right, just as I thought. In other words nobody ever made the claim "Skeeve FIRST stated that TamiO called him GP". In other words, you used your subjective misinterpretation of livius' comment to create a claim out of straw, then summoned a Goliath of a post - replete with links to many of TamiO's comments that could be interpreted in any number of ways – to destroy it. This, Andalyn, says much more about how you "operate" than TamiO.
Andalyn wrote:Oh, and here:

http://skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/vi ... 5403#45403
livius drusus wrote:I'm shocked and appalled overreaction/red herring Skeeve put out there the minute Tami said the sock word.
Right. Another example of livius not making the claim you say she made.
Thanks Tomas for attempting to silence me. I noted you didn't complain to livius for making these comments in Luke's thread.
I'm not trying to silence you. I'm trying to correct the misinformation you're shitting all over Luke's apology thread. Why did I say nothing to livius about derailing this thread with misinformation? Perhaps because she didn't do it.
Quite simply, I'm reacting to her reaction to Skeeve. Period. She made a statement which was not correct. I didn't think she was purposely being untruthful, but rather just got her facts wrong. I really just wished to correct her misinterpretation of the events.
No, she did not. She stated:
livius drusus wrote:Tami suggested that you were a sock. Period. You're the one who said she was accusing you of being Genghis. I imagine she thought you were jj all along.
Read that again and again if you have to. It does not, you might eventually notice, say "Skeeve FIRST stated that TamiO called him GP" or even imply that. It says that TamiO never explicitly accused Skeeve of being GP's sock. Which is true. All TamiO ever suggested was that Skeeve was a sock. She did allude to the possibility that GP was the person who Skeeve was a sock of, but that is much more likely to be because GP was attacking the board with socks around then (IIRC) than for any other reason. In any case alluding to the possibility is not the same as making an explicit accusation, which you seem to be arguing she did.

So, now that I have clearly demonstrated that your interpretation of livius' claim was wrong, and your big long anti-TamiO screed completely unjustified in the context of the issue at hand, are you going to do the honorable thing and delete it so you don't poison anyone's opinion of TamiO further with your misinformation?

I can't wait to see.

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Post by OckhamRules »

Skeeve wrote:
Rosencrantz wrote:This is so amazingly silly. Having read at least two threads where Skeeve has posted a response for jj and then jj jumps in to get mad at Skeeve for trying to make it look like she's his sock, ...
Hey, I'm good! :P

Luke T, seriously, I shouldn't have messed up your thread. I don't understand all the issues, but you seem like a reasonable, sincere person to me, and I don't understand the hostility that I feel I suppose it could be me coming from others toward you.
Hey Skeeve,

If you're really a sock, I recommend you dump jj. You're a much better poster.

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jkorosi
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Post by jkorosi »

Sorry, Luke...maybe some here are fooled, but it will take more than a half-hearted and disingenuous "apology" to convince me to forgive you for your actions towards me - a lot more.

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Rosencrantz
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Post by Rosencrantz »

Andalyn,

I don't mean to challenge you personally, but it sounds like you have some history with tamiO. Is there a reason you are trying to demonstrate that she was trying to make people believe Skeeve was GP besides to make her look bad?

I took a look at the threads you quoted, and while it does appear that tamiO is the first to mention Skeeve and GP, the context doesn't seem to me like "Skeeve might be GP, hint hint," but rather "it's not that I'm saying he needs to be banned, like if he was GP, just that I don't trust him." You prod her with a post "So your instincts tell you Skeeve is GP? Interesting." When Skeeve returns to the thread, he overreacts in my opinion, by calling tamiO a liar and a censor. There are many accusations from Skeeve that tamiO is deliberately smearing Skeeve's character, and Skeeve calls for tamiO's proof that Skeeve is GP. Really, tamiO seems to respond fairly well under this pressure, if you accept the idea that she was not trying to suggest Skeeve was GP, as Skeeve repeatedly accuses her of doing.

Isn't all this kind of silly if Skeeve is jj? tamiO's instincts were that Skeeve was someone's sock puppet. Are we supposed to pile on her because she seems to have guessed wrongly about who it was? When I read the thread, Skeeve's response seems completely out of line, considering that just a couple of days before he was posting questions like "Who is this GP?" and "Why do you people want to defend this guy, anyhow?" Calling her a liar? Why? Because he doesn't want to be associated with GP, or because he doesn't want to be thought of as a sock?

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Andalyn
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Post by Andalyn »

viscousmemories wrote:
Andalyn wrote:
viscousmemories wrote:
Andalyn wrote:Remember - the claim was that Skeeve FIRST stated that TamiO called him GP.
Well as long as you're going to keep shitting on Luke's thread, I might as well try to help clean it up. Who made that claim and where?
LOL Tomas...

Here:

http://skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/vi ... 0897#10897
livius drusus wrote: Sigh...

Tami suggested that you were a sock. Period. You're the one who said she was accusing you of being Genghis. I imagine she thought you were jj all along.
Right, just as I thought. In other words nobody ever made the claim "Skeeve FIRST stated that TamiO called him GP". In other words, you used your subjective misinterpretation of livius' comment to create a claim out of straw, then summoned a Goliath of a post - replete with links to many of TamiO's comments that could be interpreted in any number of ways – to destroy it. This, Andalyn, says much more about how you "operate" than TamiO.
Andalyn wrote:Oh, and here:

http://skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/vi ... 5403#45403
livius drusus wrote:I'm shocked and appalled overreaction/red herring Skeeve put out there the minute Tami said the sock word.
Right. Another example of livius not making the claim you say she made.
Thanks Tomas for attempting to silence me. I noted you didn't complain to livius for making these comments in Luke's thread.
I'm not trying to silence you. I'm trying to correct the misinformation you're shitting all over Luke's apology thread. Why did I say nothing to livius about derailing this thread with misinformation? Perhaps because she didn't do it.
Quite simply, I'm reacting to her reaction to Skeeve. Period. She made a statement which was not correct. I didn't think she was purposely being untruthful, but rather just got her facts wrong. I really just wished to correct her misinterpretation of the events.
No, she did not. She stated:
livius drusus wrote:Tami suggested that you were a sock. Period. You're the one who said she was accusing you of being Genghis. I imagine she thought you were jj all along.
Read that again and again if you have to. It does not, you might eventually notice, say "Skeeve FIRST stated that TamiO called him GP" or even imply that. It says that TamiO never explicitly accused Skeeve of being GP's sock. Which is true. All TamiO ever suggested was that Skeeve was a sock. She did allude to the possibility that GP was the person who Skeeve was a sock of, but that is much more likely to be because GP was attacking the board with socks around then (IIRC) than for any other reason. In any case alluding to the possibility is not the same as making an explicit accusation, which you seem to be arguing she did.

So, now that I have clearly demonstrated that your interpretation of livius' claim was wrong, and your big long anti-TamiO screed completely unjustified in the context of the issue at hand, are you going to do the honorable thing and delete it so you don't poison anyone's opinion of TamiO further with your misinformation?

I can't wait to see.
Image

rr-ii-gg-hh-tt...

You crack me up. Talk about interpretation.

It's clear that TamiO insinuated Skeeve was GP. It's clear that Livius didn't seem to get that. It's clear that Livius was coming down on Skeeve, calling red herring etc. when in fact TamiO did in fact insinuate he was GP.

I've detailed the events. You want to argue what the definition of "is" is, feel free. Also, go ahead and ponder your navel.

Also, while your defense of Livius is expected - I'm not sure how you can stretch that she wasn't derailing or assisting to derail with her comments to Skeeve. I wasn't even attacking her. Just attempting to give a bit of clarity to events that have clearly been forgotten. Anyway, sure... it's only ME who is shitting on the thread. LOL.

You are hugely predictable. :D
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viscousmemories
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Post by viscousmemories »

Andalyn wrote: rr-ii-gg-hh-tt...

You crack me up. Talk about interpretation.

It's clear that TamiO insinuated Skeeve was GP. It's clear that Livius didn't seem to get that. It's clear that Livius was coming down on Skeeve, calling red herring etc. when in fact TamiO did in fact insinuate he was GP.

I've detailed the events. You want to argue what the definition of "is" is, feel free. Also, go ahead and ponder your navel.

Also, while your defense of Livius is expected - I'm not sure how you can stretch that she wasn't derailing or assisting to derail with her comments to Skeeve. I wasn't even attacking her. Just attempting to give a bit of clarity to events that have clearly been forgotten. Anyway, sure... it's only ME who is shitting on the thread. LOL.

You are hugely predictable. :D
And there I have my answer about whether you will do the honorable thing and delete your well-poisoning strawman post. I even anticipated (read my first post to TamiO on this thread) that you would try to make this about my motivations. Talk about hugely predictable. You're more accurate than an atomic clock.

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Andalyn
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Post by Andalyn »

Rosencrantz wrote:Andalyn,

I don't mean to challenge you personally, but it sounds like you have some history with tamiO. Is there a reason you are trying to demonstrate that she was trying to make people believe Skeeve was GP besides to make her look bad?
I used to get along with her alright. Over time, I come to notice some things I don't care for.

I do believe she insinuated it at first - then outright made a claim of evidence. I was merely was attempting to set the record straight with Livius.
Rosencrantz wrote: I took a look at the threads you quoted, and while it does appear that tamiO is the first to mention Skeeve and GP, the context doesn't seem to me like "Skeeve might be GP, hint hint," but rather "it's not that I'm saying he needs to be banned, like if he was GP, just that I don't trust him." You prod her with a post "So your instincts tell you Skeeve is GP? Interesting." When Skeeve returns to the thread, he overreacts in my opinion, by calling tamiO a liar and a censor. There are many accusations from Skeeve that tamiO is deliberately smearing Skeeve's character, and Skeeve calls for tamiO's proof that Skeeve is GP. Really, tamiO seems to respond fairly well under this pressure, if you accept the idea that she was not trying to suggest Skeeve was GP, as Skeeve repeatedly accuses her of doing.
I had an idea where she was going. Like many of us do - we call it out. I wanted a hard and firm answer from her as to who she believed Skeeve was. I've tired of the typical TamiO insinuation. TamiO never once countered my questions with "No" or "I don't think it's GP". Later, she claims to have seen "evidence". I drew her out.

Rosencrantz wrote: Isn't all this kind of silly if Skeeve is jj? tamiO's instincts were that Skeeve was someone's sock puppet. Are we supposed to pile on her because she seems to have guessed wrongly about who it was? When I read the thread, Skeeve's response seems completely out of line, considering that just a couple of days before he was posting questions like "Who is this GP?" and "Why do you people want to defend this guy, anyhow?" Calling her a liar? Why? Because he doesn't want to be associated with GP, or because he doesn't want to be thought of as a sock?
Skeeve could be and probably is a sock. Perhaps the general consensus is correct and that he is jj. It is a bit silly. I didn't intend to pile on poor TamiO, but again - I wished to show that she did in fact insinuate that Skeeve was GP. You see, whether Skeeve is a sock or not, I do believe he/she is correct to cry foul with being associated with GP. Moreover, when others then claim that Skeeve is offering up a "red herring" when he states that TamiO called him GP.

I really didn't mean to get this TamiO thing fired up. Probably should have left out the Tami comment, but I firmly believe what I'm saying here. Tami uses innuendo and insinuation to poison. Doesn't matter to me that her intended target is a sock or not.

Or - perhaps it's true, TamiO is the most misunderstood poster ever. I don't know. :)

Anyway, I do appreciate the comments Rosencrantz. It's true though, I don't like TamiO.
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Andalyn
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Post by Andalyn »

viscousmemories wrote:
Andalyn wrote: rr-ii-gg-hh-tt...

You crack me up. Talk about interpretation.

It's clear that TamiO insinuated Skeeve was GP. It's clear that Livius didn't seem to get that. It's clear that Livius was coming down on Skeeve, calling red herring etc. when in fact TamiO did in fact insinuate he was GP.

I've detailed the events. You want to argue what the definition of "is" is, feel free. Also, go ahead and ponder your navel.

Also, while your defense of Livius is expected - I'm not sure how you can stretch that she wasn't derailing or assisting to derail with her comments to Skeeve. I wasn't even attacking her. Just attempting to give a bit of clarity to events that have clearly been forgotten. Anyway, sure... it's only ME who is shitting on the thread. LOL.

You are hugely predictable. :D
And there I have my answer about whether you will do the honorable thing and delete your well-poisoning strawman post. I even anticipated (read my first post to TamiO on this thread) that you would try to make this about my motivations. Talk about hugely predictable. You're more accurate than an atomic clock.
:D

Well poisoning? That would be spelled: T-A-M-I-O.

What is predictable: All you are doing is reacting to a perceived attack on your friend(s). NOTE: I didn't attack Livius, and unless you have gotten cozy with TamiO - you can relax. :) Or not, I don't care. EVERYONE should know by now that you and I don't like each other much - but I've been trying to be civil.

I just like to add that TamiO poisons a well in another thread - I mention it to correct a misinterpretation - and now I'm poisoning the well and creating a strawman? Oh well, we can always let the others decide. That's what it's all about I suppose.

How's Texas?
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Post by Soubrette »

OFF TOPIC
Goodness me - if I were Luke I'd be horrified at what has happened to my thread. This is not about what everyone else thinks of Tami, Livvy et al. This is how Luke feels he's been acting to certain people and an expression of contrition and a resolve to act in a way he considers better.

So people then take the opportunity to attack one of the very people that Luke is saying he wishes to behave in a better manner to.

People, this is not about what you all think of Tami (or anyone else for that matter) this is about Luke. It's not even about whether you think he's right or wrong in what he says - it's about his wish to make amends for something that HE thinks needs it.

I'd be pretty pissed off if I were he, and I'm pretty disappointed myself. Can't someone be the big guy and just let the other person have the last word, so that it ends here and now? If you think things need to be said then take it to PM or to another thread but please consider leaving this one alone.

ON TOPIC
I still think you're a great guy Luke :)


Sou

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Rosencrantz
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Post by Rosencrantz »

Andalyn wrote:I do believe she insinuated it at first - then outright made a claim of evidence.
I accept that. I agree that it is a reasonable interpretation of the posts you have quoted, though it also requires a poor opinion of tamiO, in that one must believe that her motives are malicious.
Andalyn wrote:I had an idea where she was going. Like many of us do - we call it out. I wanted a hard and firm answer from her as to who she believed Skeeve was. I've tired of the typical TamiO insinuation. TamiO never once countered my questions with "No" or "I don't think it's GP". Later, she claims to have seen "evidence". I drew her out.
This is admirable, and I appreciate what you were trying to do. I want to point out, though, that you did this under the assumption that she was being suggestive. For whatever reasons, perhaps good ones, you perceived her post as sneaky and insinuating, and thus determined that she was being malicious. If she wasn't, she didn't really have a chance to defend herself, did she?
andalyn wrote:Skeeve could be and probably is a sock. Perhaps the general consensus is correct and that he is jj. It is a bit silly. I didn't intend to pile on poor TamiO, but again - I wished to show that she did in fact insinuate that Skeeve was GP. You see, whether Skeeve is a sock or not, I do believe he/she is correct to cry foul with being associated with GP. Moreover, when others then claim that Skeeve is offering up a "red herring" when he states that TamiO called him GP.
I understand why you would perceive an insinuation, but I don't think it's obvious. I can also understand why a poster would be upset to be accused of being GP. Still, while I haven't been in the same situation myself, I thought his way of demanding evidence and calling her a liar was an excessive reaction.
andalyn wrote:Anyway, I do appreciate the comments Rosencrantz. It's true though, I don't like TamiO.
And I'm not trying to discount your post because of that. I should make that clear. I'm just trying to understand a phenomenon I notice happening a lot, where people dislike another poster so much that they encourage others to insult and ignore them. I don't think you've gone as far as the ones I've noticed on JREF, but I find myself questioning why my opinion (for example) of tamiO is important to you. If I agree with what she says, does that cast doubt on my skepticism?

I remember getting furious at Interesting Ian on JREF once when he was drunk and vowing that I would never respond to him again. I also found myself avoiding his posts. Yet over time, I came to appreciate what he wrote, even if I didn't agree with it, because it gave a venue for other people to communicate and develop their opinions. He is a necessary resource for developing skepticism.

Likewise, if you despise tamiO, I wonder if there is something about what she posts that you can learn from, and that the rest of us here can also learn from, even if it's simply how to counter arguments like hers from non-skeptics. But you don't have to engage her in debate if you don't like her, and you don't have to point out her evilness, either, because if it's there, other people will see it. If we don't see it, or you do engage her in debate with prejudice, it just makes you look bad. :(

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Rosencrantz
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Post by Rosencrantz »

Sorry, Soubrette. You have a point that this isn't really the place to discuss this. I don't have much else to say about the topic except that I think it would be a good idea for Luke T. to continue to demonstrate his new-found tolerance, and to participate in discussion as much as possible so that everyone can experience it.

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viscousmemories
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Post by viscousmemories »

Soubrette wrote:Can't someone be the big guy and just let the other person have the last word, so that it ends here and now? If you think things need to be said then take it to PM or to another thread but please consider leaving this one alone.
Aha! I am the big guy! :D

Only kidding. It was my turn to reply to Andalyn, so with respect I did so in a new thread.

My apologies to Sou, Luke and everyone else for furthering the derail.

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Post by gentlehorse »

Soubrette wrote:**snipperooni**
I still think you're a great guy Luke :)
Sou
Ayup. Honest man, honest mistakes, big enough to admit 'em-- Admirable...

Of course, I'm biased. I've always had a warm spot in my heart for the old wind bag. :D
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Post by Ceinwyn »

I'm with Soubrette. Tami is sneaky and underhanded and I don't like her tactics.

I've posted elsewhere about it. That's all.
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viscousmemories
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Post by viscousmemories »

Ceinwyn wrote:I'm with Soubrette. Tami is sneaky and underhanded and I don't like her tactics.

I've posted elsewhere about it. That's all.
Huh? Where did Soubrette say that?

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Ceinwyn
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Post by Ceinwyn »

viscousmemories wrote:
Ceinwyn wrote:I'm with Soubrette. Tami is sneaky and underhanded and I don't like her tactics.

I've posted elsewhere about it. That's all.
Huh? Where did Soubrette say that?
Ok I did. Sorry.
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Post by Luke T. »

Well, this is my first post on my brand spanking new home computer!

Well, I guess I'm not the only one who has been walking around with some grudges. :D

Folks, it feels good to clean up my side of the street without pointing out anybody else's trash. It really does. I feel like my old self again.

I don't care who is who's sock. I have a Sock myself.

I don't care about personal histories any more. That is the stuff which was killing me.

See you all around. And don't worry if you think my thread is being trashed. It really is okay. Maybe some venting is needed.
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Post by Pyrrho »

Yeah, we got other problems. Franko just registered. Let the kookfest begin!

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Post by Skeptoid »

Pyrrho wrote:Yeah, we got other problems. Franko just registered. Let the kookfest begin!
Yeah... well... we had bigfig here too. Turned out to be Bruce screwing around. :shock: :D I guess we'll find out soon enough if "Franko" is the one true Sage of Baltimore. :roll:
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