The UK thread

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Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

The Independent wrote:'Too expensive' to delete millions of police mugshots of innocent people, minister claims

Millions of police mugshots of innocent people cannot be deleted because it would be too expensive, a government minister has claimed – despite a High Court ruling that the practice is unlawful.

The work would have to be “done manually” by local forces, making the costs “difficult to justify”, a committee of MPs investigating the controversy has been told.

The Home Office has also admitted it has no idea how many people have successfully asked for their mugshots to be deleted – amid suspicions that the figure is very low.

The revelations were quickly attacked by Norman Lamb, the chairman of the science and technology committee, who has warned the mass retention of facial images raises “fundamental civil liberty issues”.

They come just days after it was revealed the Home Office destroyed landing cards which could have helped Windrush arrivals prove their right to stay in the UK - allegedly to comply with data protection laws.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 10896.html
Grammatron
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Grammatron »

https://i.redd.it/fgk7obqax7v01.jpg
Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

↑ Reminded me of this meme:

https://i.imgur.com/Pyp5EHP.jpg
Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

Mail Online wrote:Inside Britain's first ever Flat Earth convention where conspiracy theorists discuss 'proof' our planet is shaped like a disc and that 'gravity doesn't exist'

– Those who believe the Flat Earth Theory claim our planet is shaped like a disc
– UK's first Flat Earth Convention took place over three days in a Birmingham hotel
– Nine speakers took the stage to discuss their 'proof' that our planet is flat
– Among the 200 people who attended were IT consultants and an NHS manager
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ntion.html
Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

Reuters wrote:Ethiopia says British museum must permanently return its artifacts

ADDIS ABABA (Reuters) - Britain must permanently return all artifacts from Ethiopia held by the Victoria and Albert Museum and Addis Ababa will not accept them on loan, an Ethiopian government official said.

The call comes after the museum, one of London’s most popular tourist attractions, put Ethiopian treasures plundered by British forces in 1868 on display.

“Well, it would be exciting if the items held at the V&A could be part of a long-term loan with a cultural institution in Ethiopia,” museum director Tristram Hunt said.

“These items have never been on a long-term loan in Ethiopia, but as we look to the future I think what we’re interested in are partnerships around conservation, interpretation, heritage management, and these need to be supported by government assistance so that institutions like the V&A can support sister institutions in Ethiopia.”

Among the items on display are sacred manuscripts and gold taken from the Battle of Maqdala 150 years ago, when British troops ransacked the fortress of Emperor Tewodros II.

The offer of a loan did not go far enough for Ethiopia.

“What we have asked (for) was the restitution of our heritage, our Maqdala heritage, looted from Maqdala 150 years ago. We presented our request in 2007 and we are waiting for it,” government minister Hirut Woldemariam said.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKBN1HU2M2


https://i.imgur.com/9pfjAhV.jpg
Chalice made by Walda Giyorgis in Gondar, Ethiopia, 1735-40.

https://i.imgur.com/Rao7Pzh.jpg
Crown, probably made in Gondar, Ethiopia, around 1740.
ed
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ed »

I've had some interesting chats with museum types on this issue. As I recall, the Calyx Krater at the Met was recently returned to Italy. Also a helmet from the Kienbush collection in Philly was returned to the Royal Armouries (?). Then then there are the Elgin Marbles.

A thoughtful book on the topic is here
https://www.amazon.com/Who-Owns-Antiqui ... ns+history

Personally, I take a pragmatic view. If the underlying principle is that individuals and cultures should have physical possession of objects that originated within their borders, in their families, within their culture you have, effectively, chaos. Every museum in the new world would be denuded. And objects would revert to areas that do not have the means motivation or ability to preserve these things.

Objects like the Elgin Marbles belong to all of us, not the fucking pederast Greek fuckers.

While I feel the pain of the damn Ethiopians I really don't give a shit. The stuff is safe and is being enjoyed by more of humanity in a year than inhabits the entirety of their shithole country.

I suggest a hundred year window for reparations. The russkies looted stuff from Germany that has still not been returned (I believe) and art and other objects that were stolen from jews in the Nazi sphere of influence are still in limbo. But at some point we must say "enough".

eta that crown looks like something a kardashian would wear . brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
gnome
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Re: The UK thread

Post by gnome »

I don't think there's a one-size-fits all solution of any kind.

In some cases I would offer to transfer official ownership to the native country, but secure an agreement for it to remain on display where it is.
gnome
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Re: The UK thread

Post by gnome »

More like that in some cases repatriation has a cost to humanity itself as ed points out. If both parties can agree on something else, isn't that a better outcome?
ed
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ed »

In some cases I would offer to transfer official ownership to the native country, but secure an agreement for it to remain on display where it is.
Thats called "keeping it".

How about a tag on the display showing the area of origin ... wait, they do that already.

Sorry, places like Greece simply can not guarentee acesss to objects. They, amazingly, publish a "strike schedule" for Greece. In any event, the Elgin Marbles were not made by relatives of present day greeks, they can all kiss my ass .... err :oops:
Rob Lister
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Rob Lister »

How about they can have it back after they pay past restoration, towing and storage fees. :)
gnome
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Re: The UK thread

Post by gnome »

ed wrote:
In some cases I would offer to transfer official ownership to the native country, but secure an agreement for it to remain on display where it is.
Thats called "keeping it".
Maybe close. It also acknowledges the owning country's ability to make a repatriation claim, but voluntarily withholding it. It may not make much difference to the visitors of the museum, but I would think it makes a difference to the native country whether it is voluntary or against their wishes.
ed
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ed »

There is also a claim that looting removes things from serious study. That objects that go into collections are lost in some way.

In fact I think that this is a steaming load of bullshit. To begin, 99% of the stuff looted (n.b. I take issue with the term) is crap that would never make it to a museum storeroom let alone "scientific study". The few pieces that are worthwhile tend to get identified and conserved ... the people selling this stuff are not stupid and the people buying aren't either. So there is some appreciation for things that would remain buried. There is no program anywhere to dig up everything. In fact, professionals routinely fill in excavations when there is nothing of interest. How much better to support amateurs in this regard?

The Brits have a system that is amazingly effective. If you dig and find something you report it to a designated expert. If it is a good piece, the government will buy it for the real market value. If not, it is yours. There are rules for Treasure Trove but lets not complicate things. There is a charming series on the BBC called Dectectorists that treats this subject.

The Draconian laws in Greece and Italy simply serve to drive prices up, criminalize behaviors that have been part of those societies forever and assure the disappearance of worthwhile objects. All the while keeping objects "safe" to be ignored by professionals.
ed
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ed »

gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
In some cases I would offer to transfer official ownership to the native country, but secure an agreement for it to remain on display where it is.
Thats called "keeping it".
Maybe close. It also acknowledges the owning country's ability to make a repatriation claim, but voluntarily withholding it. It may not make much difference to the visitors of the museum, but I would think it makes a difference to the native country whether it is voluntary or against their wishes.
Difference how? Their feelings aren't hurt?
Giz
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Giz »

Huh, those dorians are just being ionic. If they were serious, they’d leave Greece to the Mycenaens. (Heck, the Parthenon was built on the site of the old Mycenaean city - SAD)
ed
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ed »

BTW, I have bought deaccessioned objects from museums, the Palace of Fine Arts in San Fran most recently (tho' ages ago). I bought a couple of swords and a few pieces of armor. I talked to the curator chick about it at the time. Thing was that they knew that they would never have a true study collection nor would they have anything resembling a comprehensive display so they got rid of most of the pieces, kept a couple and directed interested folks to the Met or the Severance collection or the Chicago exhibit. Sensible. They got focus and $. Thing is that these pieces (if they're not fake) are european, italian probably. Probably bought by wealthy collectors back in the day and likely looted by the wops from the germans (or the germans from the wops).

Who gets what? And should the museum be last man standing and loose the money?

Thing is not everything is the mona lisa. It is all stolen (for military stuff that is almost guaranteed).
Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

RIP the State…
The Evening Standard wrote:Britain's first private police force to go nationwide after success in London's wealthiest neighbourhoods

The force, called My Local Bobby, makes citizens arrests and can gather evidence to launch private prosecutions.

Clients who pay up to £200-a-month are given a direct line to a local officer, who they can also track on an iPad, and enjoy a meet-and-greet service from Tube stations or cars.

The scheme, which was set up by former Met officers David McKelvey and Tony Nash, is currently being trialled in Belgravia, Mayfair and Kensington.

In two years, the agency has reportedly achieved more than 400 convictions for fraud, intellectual property theft and other offences.

They now intend to move forces into other cities, as well as rural areas, amid a rising demand for the officers.

Mr McKelvey told the Sunday Express: “You don’t see policemen walk around the streets any more. If you call 101 it’s a 30-minute wait and it is not a police officer who answers.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brit ... 32321.html

The slums will have to police themselves. That'll make them aware of their responsibilities. :P
Giz
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Giz »

Witness wrote:RIP the State…
The Evening Standard wrote:Britain's first private police force to go nationwide after success in London's wealthiest neighbourhoods

The force, called My Local Bobby, makes citizens arrests and can gather evidence to launch private prosecutions.

Clients who pay up to £200-a-month are given a direct line to a local officer, who they can also track on an iPad, and enjoy a meet-and-greet service from Tube stations or cars.

The scheme, which was set up by former Met officers David McKelvey and Tony Nash, is currently being trialled in Belgravia, Mayfair and Kensington.

In two years, the agency has reportedly achieved more than 400 convictions for fraud, intellectual property theft and other offences.

They now intend to move forces into other cities, as well as rural areas, amid a rising demand for the officers.

Mr McKelvey told the Sunday Express: “You don’t see policemen walk around the streets any more. If you call 101 it’s a 30-minute wait and it is not a police officer who answers.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brit ... 32321.html

The slums will have to police themselves. That'll make them aware of their responsibilities. :P
In the UK, that would be called "policing by consent".
Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

Giz wrote:In the UK, that would be called "policing by consent".
I looked that up, interesting: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... by-consent. Sounds somehow very utopian, today. :(
Anaxagoras
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Anaxagoras »

U.K. schools getting rid of analog clocks because teens "cannot tell time"

I wonder if analog clocks will be an antique curiosity in the future.

If kids can't tell time using an analog clock, isn't some sort of remedial education in order? Make it a subject in 1st grade. Educate the students, don't make accommodations for their ignorance.
Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

https://i.imgur.com/vpMwAAp.jpg
gnome
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Re: The UK thread

Post by gnome »

ed wrote:
gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
In some cases I would offer to transfer official ownership to the native country, but secure an agreement for it to remain on display where it is.
Thats called "keeping it".
Maybe close. It also acknowledges the owning country's ability to make a repatriation claim, but voluntarily withholding it. It may not make much difference to the visitors of the museum, but I would think it makes a difference to the native country whether it is voluntary or against their wishes.
Difference how? Their feelings aren't hurt?
In diplomatic relations sometimes that can make all the difference. Symbolic meanings, saving face, all the things that smooth over decisions on emotive topics made for mostly practicality.
Last edited by gnome on Tue May 15, 2018 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
gnome
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Re: The UK thread

Post by gnome »

Anaxagoras wrote:U.K. schools getting rid of analog clocks because teens "cannot tell time"

I wonder if analog clocks will be an antique curiosity in the future.

If kids can't tell time using an analog clock, isn't some sort of remedial education in order? Make it a subject in 1st grade. Educate the students, don't make accommodations for their ignorance.
Not exactly.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/schoo ... og-clocks/
Giz
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Giz »

gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
In some cases I would offer to transfer official ownership to the native country, but secure an agreement for it to remain on display where it is.
Thats called "keeping it".
Maybe close. It also acknowledges the owning country's ability to make a repatriation claim, but voluntarily withholding it. It may not make much difference to the visitors of the museum, but I would think it makes a difference to the native country whether it is voluntary or against their wishes.
Difference how? Their feelings aren't hurt?
In diplomatic relations sometimes that can make all the difference. Symbolic meanings, saving face, all the things that smooth over decisions on emotive topics made for mostly practicality.
I think that once you make that offer, you have relinquished the high ground and acknowledged that the right thing to do is to return ownership. Probably a bad idea.
Anaxagoras
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Anaxagoras »

gnome wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:U.K. schools getting rid of analog clocks because teens "cannot tell time"

I wonder if analog clocks will be an antique curiosity in the future.

If kids can't tell time using an analog clock, isn't some sort of remedial education in order? Make it a subject in 1st grade. Educate the students, don't make accommodations for their ignorance.
Not exactly.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/schoo ... og-clocks/
Kids these days, they're soft, SOFT I tell you!! :evil:
gnome
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Re: The UK thread

Post by gnome »

Giz wrote:
gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
In some cases I would offer to transfer official ownership to the native country, but secure an agreement for it to remain on display where it is.
Thats called "keeping it".
Maybe close. It also acknowledges the owning country's ability to make a repatriation claim, but voluntarily withholding it. It may not make much difference to the visitors of the museum, but I would think it makes a difference to the native country whether it is voluntary or against their wishes.
Difference how? Their feelings aren't hurt?
In diplomatic relations sometimes that can make all the difference. Symbolic meanings, saving face, all the things that smooth over decisions on emotive topics made for mostly practicality.
I think that once you make that offer, you have relinquished the high ground and acknowledged that the right thing to do is to return ownership. Probably a bad idea.
Not at all. Especially if you can get the parties to agree that your museum is a good place for it---it is now displayed on their say so instead of yours. Easier for them to promote the idea at home.
Giz
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Giz »

gnome wrote:
Giz wrote:
gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
In some cases I would offer to transfer official ownership to the native country, but secure an agreement for it to remain on display where it is.
Thats called "keeping it".
Maybe close. It also acknowledges the owning country's ability to make a repatriation claim, but voluntarily withholding it. It may not make much difference to the visitors of the museum, but I would think it makes a difference to the native country whether it is voluntary or against their wishes.
Difference how? Their feelings aren't hurt?
In diplomatic relations sometimes that can make all the difference. Symbolic meanings, saving face, all the things that smooth over decisions on emotive topics made for mostly practicality.
I think that once you make that offer, you have relinquished the high ground and acknowledged that the right thing to do is to return ownership. Probably a bad idea.
Not at all. Especially if you can get the parties to agree that your museum is a good place for it---it is now displayed on their say so instead of yours. Easier for them to promote the idea at home.
Really? You concede that the other country is the rightful owner and you don’t think that will give them moral leverage to go to the public/Twitter etc and campaign on a ‘they have already acknowledged that we are the rightful owners but they refuse to return it!’
gnome
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Re: The UK thread

Post by gnome »

Giz wrote:
Really? You concede that the other country is the rightful owner and you don’t think that will give them moral leverage to go to the public/Twitter etc and campaign on a ‘they have already acknowledged that we are the rightful owners but they refuse to return it!’
This is the opposite from the situation I propose--I'm suggesting it would be useful in a situation where the origin country could be willing to make that agreement. If they want nothing other than repatriation obviously such a deal would be useless.
Pyrrho
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Pyrrho »

Link:

Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

Chris Naylor mows Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's face in grass
https://i.imgur.com/R1351jN.jpg
Some dude on reddit wrote:People at work were planning their days around the TV coverage of the wedding. They asked me what i was doing and i said i couldn't care less about the royal wedding and they all looked at me like i just murdered a puppy. Glad i'm off work Monday so i don't have to hear about it.
There's something Pyrrho-esque about that. :mrgreen:
Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

The Guardian wrote:State takes back control of east coast mainline

The London-Edinburgh-Inverness service will be taken back into public control on 24 June, a little over three years since Virgin Trains East Coast (Vtec) started running. It will be rebranded as the London and North Eastern Railway.

The transport secretary, Chris Grayling, told the House of Commons that after a “finely balanced” assessment by civil servants, he had decided to appoint the “operator of last resort” – a group led by the firm Arup and under government control – to run the service, rather than allow Stagecoach and Virgin to continue under fresh terms.

Grayling said: “The route continues to generate substantial returns for the government. It is not a failing railway ... However, Virgin and Stagecoach got their bids wrong.”

He insisted taxpayers had not lost out, adding: “Only Vtec and its parent companies have made losses at this time ... We cannot expect companies to take on unlimited liabilities otherwise they would not bid for franchises.”

Despite the firms now avoiding up to £2bn in premium payments after the failure of the franchise, Grayling said “it would not be reasonable to place conditions” on Stagecoach or Virgin bidding for further rail services. He said: “They have paid a high financial and reputational price.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... stagecoach
Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

Fid
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Fid »

Witness wrote:
Chris Naylor mows Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's face in grass
https://i.imgur.com/R1351jN.jpg
Some dude on reddit wrote:People at work were planning their days around the TV coverage of the wedding. They asked me what i was doing and i said i couldn't care less about the royal wedding and they all looked at me like i just murdered a puppy. Glad i'm off work Monday so i don't have to hear about it.
There's something Pyrrho-esque about that. :mrgreen:
I done 'tole ya and 'tole ya Pyrrho get that damn mower deck fixed or replaced otherwise every parody grass mowing will have a moustache.
Anaxagoras
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Anaxagoras »

'I'm proud to be a feminist': Duchess of Sussex announces herself on royal website (That's Meghan Markle's new title if anyone cares)

Because marrying a prince is such a feminist thing to aspire to, right? :twisted:
Doctor X
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Doctor X »

When is the divorce scheduled?





What?

--J.D.
Anaxagoras
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Anaxagoras »

Of course, as per usual the best coverage of the royal wedding was provided by America's Finest News Source:

https://www.theonion.com/tag/royal-wedding
Doctor X
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Doctor X »

Heh! I was just going to post:

Royal Wedding Photographer Feeling Pretty Guilty About Time He Ran Princess Di Off Road

--J.D.
WildCat
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Re: The UK thread

Post by WildCat »

Witness wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EowHZrFs3-4
Full hi-def version.

Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

WildCat wrote:Full hi-def version.
Thanks. I just fear it's a bit long for our attention span. :mrgreen: (These guys should really learn to edit their vids – goes for a lot of the stuff on YT.)

As an aside, I'm always astonished how a car can bring up a very special kind of dumbth… (And as an aside in the aside, is it the same, mutatis mutandis, with guns? A subject I know nothing about.)
Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

UK, but actually universal. I found it a fun read:
Link:

Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

The Telegraph wrote:Legal battle over mystery 90-year-old bank account's £400m for the national debt

A bank account set up 90 years ago by a mystery donor to pay off the national debt is at the centre of a court battle, as the Government seeks permission to unlock its £400 million funds.

Nearly a century on from the fund being set up, the identity of the donor remains unknown and the fund untouched by the Government because of a quirk in the terms governing the money's release.

The terms of the bequest stipulated that it should be only used to pay off the entire national debt. However, despite growing 800-fold in value since the original £500,000 donation, the fund has never been sufficient to clear all of the nation's debt so has remained locked in the specially created National Fund.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... -donation/ (rest behind paywall)

Drooling for 90 years, terrible! :lmao: