The UK thread

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Witness
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Re: The UK thread

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Coronavirus: Experts cast doubt on UK plan for ‘herd immunity’

‘We really don’t know whether there will be herd immunity or not,’ says head of virology at National Institute for Biological Standards and Control

Experts have cast doubt on the government’s policy of letting large numbers of the British population catch coronavirus in a bid to create "herd immunity", warning it may not work and people could be susceptible to catching it again.

On Friday, the UK’s chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance said a level of herd immunity – where a significant proportion of people recover and become immune to the infection – was desirable and could protect the public in the event the virus became a seasonal infection.

He told Sky News: “Communities will become immune to it and that’s going to be an important part of controlling this longer term.

“About 60 per cent is the sort of figure you need to get herd immunity.”

But leading scientists and officials warned there is no guarantee people will become permanently immune to the Covid-19 virus, and said it is too soon to know what could happen as the virus spreads through the population.

Dr Nicola Rose, head of virology at the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control, said: “Obviously contain and delay is the approach being taken in the UK and in a number of different countries. The approaches are really to buy time in context of the healthcare system and time for vaccines to be developed.

“We don’t know how the pandemic will evolve. With flu for example it comes and goes in waves. This may well be the case here. We really don’t know whether there will be herd immunity or not.

“As the virus goes through a population, people may start to develop their own immunity. It is early days really with this virus to understand what that looks like. I think we’re a long way from what we would technically call herd immunity.”

She said it would only be after people had been infected and their immune response analysed that the true picture could be established around whether people were immune to further infection.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 00171.html

Stiff upper lip, Brits. :mrgreen:

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ceptimus
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ceptimus »

The UK government has put Rolls Royce and JCB, amongst other companies, on a war footing to rapidly build thousands of extra ventilators. They're serious about getting three quarters of us infected and recovered (or dead) before next winter. Sweden is pursuing a similar strategy. Most other EU countries still appear to be attempting to keep the infection rate low until a vaccine is developed.

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ceptimus
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Re: The UK thread

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There's no guarantee a vaccine can be developed in time. Some common colds are coronaviruses, and have never had vaccines developed against them.

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Doctor X
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Doctor X »

ceptimus wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:10 am
There's no guarantee a vaccine can be developed in time. Some common colds are coronaviruses, and have never had vaccines developed against them.
Image

On that pleasant note, this is an article evaluating claims that some have developed one which, suffice to write, have a lot of holes in them.

But then, apparently, I have promised to develop a new virus in three months. Better than 17 Days.

I am aiming for:
Sadako Rasen.jpg
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Witness
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Re: The UK thread

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Queen Elizabeth flees Buckingham Palace to escape coronavirus

The Queen has fled Buckingham Palace due to coronavirus fears.

The 93-year-old monarch was rushed to Windsor Castle.

There are plans in place to quarantine the Queen and Prince Philip, 98, at their Sandringham estate if the outbreak worsens.

A royal source told The Sun: “She is in good health but it was thought best to move her. A lot of her staff are a bit panicky over coronavirus.

“The Palace hosts a constant stream of visitors including politicians and dignitaries from around the world.
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-w ... s-c-745760

God save the Queen! :mrgreen:

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Isn't something like that the set up for the Decameron?

Or better yet, The Masque of the Red Death? :BigGrin3:
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Hotarubi »

I thought the decameron was the Brexit vote.
Yep, you totally outsmarted me ~ Wildcat.

:ball2:

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Witness
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Re: The UK thread

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Image

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Anaxagoras
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Anaxagoras »

Witness wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:25 pm
Coronavirus: Experts cast doubt on UK plan for ‘herd immunity’

‘We really don’t know whether there will be herd immunity or not,’ says head of virology at National Institute for Biological Standards and Control

Experts have cast doubt on the government’s policy of letting large numbers of the British population catch coronavirus in a bid to create "herd immunity", warning it may not work and people could be susceptible to catching it again.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 00171.html

Stiff upper lip, Brits. :mrgreen:
Hang on a moment. What is the basis for saying that that is "the government’s policy"??? :notsure:

Do I catch a whiff of Fake News? :|

Notice how they casually slip an accusation like that in there as if it were a known fact.


What I was going to post:

UK to give police new coronavirus powers
LONDON — The U.K. government on Tuesday set out a suite of new powers it will seek to tackle coronavirus.

Police and immigration officers would be given new powers to detain people and put them in isolation facilities “if necessary to protect public health,” under the proposed new law due to be introduced in parliament on Thursday.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Anaxagoras
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Anaxagoras »

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:05 am
Witness wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:25 pm
Coronavirus: Experts cast doubt on UK plan for ‘herd immunity’

‘We really don’t know whether there will be herd immunity or not,’ says head of virology at National Institute for Biological Standards and Control

Experts have cast doubt on the government’s policy of letting large numbers of the British population catch coronavirus in a bid to create "herd immunity", warning it may not work and people could be susceptible to catching it again.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 00171.html

Stiff upper lip, Brits. :mrgreen:
Hang on a moment. What is the basis for saying that that is "the government’s policy"??? :notsure:
Ah, maybe this explains. I wasn't aware:

Why Is the U.K.’s Response to COVID-19 Such an Outlier?
The contrast with other countries is baffling.

It is absolutely baffling. Last Tuesday, with lockdowns spreading throughout the world as the extent of the threat posed by COVID-19 became clear, videos circulated of tens of thousands of people at a Stereophonics gig in Cardiff, Wales, jumping up and down, singing along to their favorite songs.

France, Belgium, and Ireland had all canceled sporting events. English soccer authorities would eventually follow suit, suspending the Premier League by themselves. But the U.K. government had not banned — and, as of now, still only discourages — mass gatherings. Many are left wondering: What does the British government know that the rest of the world doesn’t? How can its approach be so different from that of other countries’ governments?

On Friday, Britain’s chief scientific adviser, Patrick Vallance, said that 40 million people would need to catch the coronavirus to build up “herd immunity.” He said that the government’s approach could help “reduce the peak of the epidemic, pull it down, and broaden it” while protecting the elderly and vulnerable. “If you suppress something very, very hard, when you release those measures it bounces back, and it bounces back at the wrong time,” he told the BBC. This suggested that the government considered mass infection to be inevitable.
Still, to say that this is a "government policy" may be reading a bit much into what may be little more than an ill-worded statement.

More on the issue:
The UK backs away from “herd immunity” coronavirus proposal amid blowback
On Friday, the UK government’s chief science adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, said on BBC Radio 4 that one of “the key things we need to do” is to “build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission.”

But on Sunday, Matt Hancock, the UK secretary of state for health and social care, stressed that achieving herd immunity to Covid-19 is not a stated policy. Instead, he said that “in the coming weeks,” people over the age of 70 will be told to self-isolate. This stands in contrast with World Health Organization guidelines, which recommend that everyone, regardless of age, practice social distancing.

“What we will do is listen to all the credible scientists and we will look at all the evidence,” he said. “Herd immunity is not our goal or policy, it’s a scientific concept.”
Of course, "herd immunity" is exactly what you want and need in the long run, so that life can go back to normal. That's why scientists all over the world are racing to develop a vaccine, and the UK government is donating millions of pounds to help in the effort to develop a vaccine. Hopefully, you achieve "herd immunity" via vaccination rather than everyone catching the disease, but either way, life can't continue like this forever.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Rob Lister
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Re: The UK thread

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Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:23 am
Of course, "herd immunity" is exactly what you want and need in the long run, so that life can go back to normal. That's why scientists all over the world are racing to develop a vaccine, and the UK government is donating millions of pounds to help in the effort to develop a vaccine. Hopefully, you achieve "herd immunity" via vaccination rather than everyone catching the disease, but either way, life can't continue like this forever.
The country that bites that bullet is going to survive far better than the rest, economically speaking. The devastated economies of the world are going to [perhaps] end up killing more people than the virus.

What an ugly reality that is.

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Re: The UK thread

Post by shuize »

Rob Lister wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:36 am
Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:23 am
Of course, "herd immunity" is exactly what you want and need in the long run, so that life can go back to normal. That's why scientists all over the world are racing to develop a vaccine, and the UK government is donating millions of pounds to help in the effort to develop a vaccine. Hopefully, you achieve "herd immunity" via vaccination rather than everyone catching the disease, but either way, life can't continue like this forever.
The country that bites that bullet is going to survive far better than the rest, economically speaking. The devastated economies of the world are going to [perhaps] end up killing more people than the virus.

What an ugly reality that is.

I've been thinking the same lately. As cold as it sounds, the results of economic panic may be worse than letting the disease run its course.

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Re: The UK thread

Post by Hotarubi »

shuize wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:31 pm
I've been thinking the same lately. As cold as it sounds, the results of economic panic may be worse than letting the disease run its course.
Same here for that reason alone. Unfortunately it's a coin flip.

But then you know the Grauniad and Independent would accuse Boris of Deliberate social darwinism. Like, forever.

Test it on the Welsh. Build a wall. Insignificant collateral damage and they're used to this kind of thing.
Yep, you totally outsmarted me ~ Wildcat.

:ball2:

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Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

Hotarubi wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:25 pm
Test it on the Welsh.
See what you get when you let (most of) the Irish escape?

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Giz
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Giz »

Not sure why we’d build a wall with wales when hadrians wall could do with some refurbishment!

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Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

The situation is really dramatic:
Dundee distillery switches production from gin to hand sanitiser
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... l-51928392

:(

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Do they at least use gin to make the hand sanitizer?

After all many brands are scented. :)
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Hotarubi
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Re: The UK thread

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Oh, we let them go. Kept making a mess everywhere.
Yep, you totally outsmarted me ~ Wildcat.

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Giz
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Giz »

Boris Johnson is being shown around a Scottish hospital.

He is shown into a ward with a number of patients who show no obvious signs of illness. He goes to examine the first man he sees, and the man proclaims:

Fair fa' yer honest, sonsie face,
Great chieftain e' the puddin' race!
Aboon them a' ye tak your place,
painch tripe or thairm:
Weel are ye wordy o' a grace
as lang's my arm.

The Englishman, somewhat taken aback, goes to the next patient, and immediately the patient launches into:

Some hae meat, and canna eat,
And some wad eat that want it,
But we hae meat and we can eat,
And sae the Lord be thankit.

This continues with the next patient:

Wee sleekit cow'rin tim'rous beastie,
O what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
wi' bickering brattle.
I wad be laith to run and chase thee,
wi' murdering prattle!"

"Well," the Englishman mutters to his Scottish colleague “are these corona virus symptoms?”

"Nay, nay," the Scottish doctor corrected him, "this is the Serious Burns unit."

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Giz
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Giz »

Delete - duplicate
Last edited by Giz on Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.