The UK thread

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Re: The UK thread

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Re: The UK thread

Post by Hotarubi »

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Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

Image
https://twitter.com/GoodLawProject/stat ... 99206?s=20

Article, if interested: Downgraded A-level students urged to join possible legal action

tl;dr: no exams, so some fishy "algorithm" was applied to older grades.
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Hotarubi »

And yet 'A' grades still went up 2.4%.

This suggests to me that teachers jazzed their own students' scores up for obvious reasons.

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Hotarubi
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Hotarubi »

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Doctor X
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Doctor X »

Well, they can't have any puddin' if they don't eat their meat.

– J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
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"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
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ceptimus
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ceptimus »

I've long advocated that exam grade inflation could be eliminated by simply fixing the proportion of candidates awarded each grade.

So in any one exam year, the top, say 5%, of students would get A grades, the next, say 10%, would get B grades and so on. This would be ideal for employers and further education establishments, using grades to determine which candidates to employ / allocate a space. No longer would they need to figure that this year's 'B' grade students are the equivalent of a 'C' grade from five years ago - by choosing only candidates with grades B or above, they would be sure that they're getting only the top 15% candidates from each year.

Grades could be eliminated completely and replaced by percentile figures if preferred. Imagine looking at a candidate's exam results and seeing that she came in the 87th percentile for the geography exam, the 92nd percentile in the mathematics exam, and so on.
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

ceptimus: Sounds good but will only work if one can be assured good faith on the part of the educational establishment.

So if it were the USA I would say no to such a scheme, but how is it in the UK?
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ceptimus
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ceptimus »

If you don't trust the education establishment, then you don't trust the current grades either.
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Doesn't the whole issue of "grade inflation" come down to them not being trustworthy?

It's certainly like that in the USA.
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Witness
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Witness »

ceptimus wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:03 am I've long advocated that exam grade inflation could be eliminated by simply fixing the proportion of candidates awarded each grade.
Interesting idea. But one would lose year to year comparisons.

The trend is of course to give papers to everybody. As an example, success percentage of the French baccalauréat:

Image

(As it happens, I passed mine in 1967. :mrgreen: )

It would be more efficient to give it to everybody finishing high school and be done with it.

With that in your pocket you can enter university. So a lot of the… less gifted drag along for two or three years before the guillotine falls. Which makes them lose two or three years of their life, drains resources and has completely devalued the diplomas you can get in that time frame.


Subsidiary question: I wonder what kind of statistical distribution could be used as a model for grades, be it a class, a school or even a country.
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ceptimus
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ceptimus »

You don't need year-to-year comparisons. People from one year are not, on average, smarter or dumber than people from other years. The whole point of my idea of fixing the proportion of each grade awarded is to allow meaningful comparison of the exam results of two people of different ages.

Part of the reason for exam grade inflation in the UK, is the culture of setting targets, and being seen to "improve" year on year. Every year we get the farcical spectacle of schools announcing that, once again, there has been an increase in the percentage of their students achieving "grade C or above" in all subjects.

The inevitable result of such grade creep is that eventually, all students are awarded 'A' grades, simply for writing their names on the exam papers. Of course, before that happens, the whole exam system is replaced with a "new improved" system which resets grades back to more sensible levels. This has already happened a few times, and makes it even harder for recruiters to assess the education results of applicants of different ages - how do you compare GCEs, with GCSEs, or GCSEs with other GCSEs from a different decade?

"Applicant one has five GCEs, applicant two has seven GCSEs, and applicant three has ten GCSEs - but applicant three is ten years younger, so although he got ten passes, he's likely dumber than applicant two, who only got seven - but he got those seven back when a GCSE pass actually meant something."
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Hotarubi »

Having an honest system of grading would make teachers, boards, councils and government accountable for the education of children.

And we can't have that.
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ed
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ed »

Seems that employers need to grow a pair and trust their interviewing process more.

If interviews are the domain of HR expect disaster, they have no business talking to candidates except to find out whether they want cream in their coffee. Fire HR let the people who are filling the actual jobs interview and decide.
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Hotarubi »

Never been in or conducted an interview with an HR bod present.

Not sure what the norm in the USA is.
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Hotarubi wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:39 am Never been in or conducted an interview with an HR bod present.

Not sure what the norm in the USA is.
Not like the UK.
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ed
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ed »

Hotarubi wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:39 am Never been in or conducted an interview with an HR bod present.
then why the vapors vapours over grades?
Funny, thinking back I'd ask "so, you little shit, what was the last book you read?". If it was a book on business I'd kick him in the nuts and throw him bodily out. If literature we had the beginnings of a conversation.
Not sure what the norm in the USA is.
Not sure either but my sense from friends who are wage slaves is that HR wields too much power.
I will defer to any observing wage slaves.
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Hotarubi
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Re: The UK thread

Post by Hotarubi »

ed wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:32 pm]
then why the vapors vapours over grades?
More to do with University/College placements than employment.

Think Oxford University v Nelson Mandela Polytechnic.
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Re: The UK thread

Post by ed »

NMP is my alma mater. Be careful my friend
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Hotarubi
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Re: The UK thread

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ed wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:47 pm NMP is my alma mater. Be careful my friend
Yes, I heard you were in the Kappa Omega Kappa fraternity.
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