## Thanks Obama(care)

This is our lounge area. Feel free to come in and get acquainted!
ed
Posts: 33656
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

### Thanks Obama(care)

So, daughter #3 was up in CT, no insurance, moved back. Cannot get on Obamacare. She has no insurance. We can get something till open enrollment (wtf is that about???!!?!?! ).

Problem is she need Vyvance. Oh yes, she does. Preexisting condition so the stopgap insurance would not cover it.

Anybody have any experience buying from up north?

What crap. I mean really. Talk about bureaucracy writ large.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

sparks
Posts: 14310
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

Not Obamacare.

Mutilated affordable health care act.

Thank Teh Orange Fucktard. (Yes Doc, you can have my stereo)

Damn sorry about daughter #3 ed. I mean it. Even as prone to bullshit as I am, I mean it.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

ed
Posts: 33656
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

If she could enroll we'd be ok.

Meanwhile ... canada . .. you by drugs from up there?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

sparks
Posts: 14310
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

Nope. Don't need drugs here. They're nice, but .... don't need them.

Yet.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

ed
Posts: 33656
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

Well can you buy me some and mail them?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 72325
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

There's enough blame to go around, so Obama doesn't get off the hook.

But the one who is really to blame is Harry Truman for not fixing the market distortion brought about as a side effect of WWII.

Or else it's Ike's fault, because Harry had to deal with Henry Wallace and Earl Browder calling for UK style socialized medicine,
but Ike could have used his prestige to get something passed.

Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

shemp
Posts: 5269
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: stooge

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

Gee I was hoping this was going to be about ed getting a horrible venereal disease and his dick rotted off. Sorry about your daughter ed.
"It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek

Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want

Witness
Posts: 17759
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

Federal judge in Texas rules Obama health-care law unconstitutional

A federal judge in Texas threw a dagger into the Affordable Care Act, ruling that the entire health-care law is unconstitutional because of a recent change in federal tax law.

A federal judge in Texas threw a dagger into the Affordable Care Act on Friday, ruling that the entire health-care law is unconstitutional because of a recent change in federal tax law.

The opinion by U.S. District Judge Reed O'Connor overturns all of the sprawling law nationwide.

The ruling came on the eve of the deadline for Americans to sign up for coverage in the federal insurance exchange created under the law.

Since the suit was filed in January, many health-law specialists have viewed its logic as weak but nevertheless have regarded the case as the greatest looming legal threat to the 2010 law, which has been a GOP whipping post ever since and assailed repeatedly in the courts.

A spokeswoman for California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, D, who leads a group of states opposing the lawsuit, said that the Democratic defenders of the law are ready to challenge the ruling in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit.
https://www.tampabay.com/nation-world/f ... -20181215/

Anaxagoras
Posts: 22484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

If anyone's curious, here's how they do things in Japan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... ce_(Japan)
National Health Insurance (国民健康保険 Kokumin-Kenkō-Hoken) is one of the two major types of insurance programs available in Japan. The other is Employees' Health Insurance (健康保険 Kenkō-Hoken). National Health insurance is designed for people who are not eligible to be members of any employment-based health insurance program. Although private insurance is also available, all Japanese citizens, permanent residents, and any non-Japanese residing in Japan with a visa lasting three months or longer are required to be enrolled in either National Health Insurance or Employees' Health Insurance.[1] On July 9, 2012, the alien registration system was abolished and foreigners are now able to apply as part of the Basic Resident Registration System. Foreigners who reside in Japan for more than three months need to register for national health insurance.[2]
So that basically covers literally everyone except people who are here for less than 3 months. And everyone is required to be enrolled in one of these 2 programs. Simple.

How much does it cost? I can't quote an exact number right now, but it seems to be very reasonable compared to what I hear about the cost of insurance in the US.

According to this:
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/cha ... u-s-spends

In 2017, the US spent $10,224 per capita on healthcare, Japan$4,717 per capita. So less than half.

Clearly 'Murica is "Doing It Wrong" when it comes to healthcare.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Doctor X
Posts: 68299
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

Because Japan gives away health care to millions of illegal immigrants?

--J.D.
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Anaxagoras
Posts: 22484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

Doctor X wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:11 am
Because Japan gives away health care to millions of illegal immigrants?

--J.D.
Is that a significant factor?

I'm sure it adds to the cost, but even without that, the US spends a lot more on healthcare.

https://www.rand.org/news/press/2006/11/14.html
RAND Study Shows Relatively Little Public Money Spent Providing Health Care to Undocumented Immigrants
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 72325
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

"Relatively" little cuts no ice with the partisans of none at all.
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

shuize
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:32 am

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

Anaxagoras wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:52 am
If anyone's curious, here's how they do things in Japan ...
Meh. If things are so great in Japan, why are all their mafia bosses going to the U.S. for their liver transplants?

http://www.japansubculture.com/yakuza-a ... -in-japan/

Anaxagoras
Posts: 22484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

shuize wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:06 am
Anaxagoras wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:52 am
If anyone's curious, here's how they do things in Japan ...
Meh. If things are so great in Japan, why are all their mafia bosses going to the U.S. for their liver transplants?

http://www.japansubculture.com/yakuza-a ... -in-japan/
Well, yeah. Organ transplants are a special case. The availability of viable organs in Japan is extremely limited as I understand it, and not nearly enough to meet the demand for organs. (Prior to 1997 you couldn't harvest organs from a brain-dead patient). Often the best hope -- the only hope -- for people who really need an organ is to go to the United States. But that's just one small corner of the overall health care market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_tra ... n_in_Japan
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 72325
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

I'm in a Democrat mood today, so I'm blaming Ike (see above).
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

xouper
Posts: 9126
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

Anaxagoras wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:52 am

. . . In 2017, the US spent $10,224 per capita on healthcare, Japan$4,717 per capita. So less than half.

Clearly 'Murica is "Doing It Wrong" when it comes to healthcare.
An obvious question occurs to me, which I don't (yet) know the answer. I'm just asking in case you would like to say more about that.

How do you know that the overall quality of health care in Japan is comparable to the US? To ask it another way, how do you know you're not comparing Cadillacs to Pintos?

And no, I won't demand evidences for your claim if you have better things to do with your time.

ed
Posts: 33656
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

What does the term "expenditures" include?

Explanation/discussion of japanese costs. TL:Skimmed.
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/ ... ff.10.3.87
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

Witness
Posts: 17759
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

xouper wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:07 am
How do you know that the overall quality of health care in Japan is comparable to the US? To ask it another way, how do you know you're not comparing Cadillacs to Pintos?
Some elements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... healthcare

Anaxagoras
Posts: 22484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

xouper wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:07 am
Anaxagoras wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:52 am

. . . In 2017, the US spent $10,224 per capita on healthcare, Japan$4,717 per capita. So less than half.

Clearly 'Murica is "Doing It Wrong" when it comes to healthcare.
An obvious question occurs to me, which I don't (yet) know the answer. I'm just asking in case you would like to say more about that.

How do you know that the overall quality of health care in Japan is comparable to the US? To ask it another way, how do you know you're not comparing Cadillacs to Pintos?

And no, I won't demand evidences for your claim if you have better things to do with your time.
Well I grew up in the US and I've been living in Japan since 2001 so I've had experiences with both health care systems, but I grant that that's just my own personal anecdotal experience. Also, I've never had anything extreme like cancer. Just minor medical issues for the most part. But I think I've received decent care in both countries. I also think there's a lot of people in the US, if given the option, can't really afford that Cadillac. If you were a person of limited means and the only kind of car you can buy is a Cadillac, you might wish that you had the option of buying a Pinto instead. It's still better than walking after all. But honestly, I don't think it's really like that.

The big difference here is that everybody has insurance. At least, everyone legally in the country for over 3 months. And the two major insurance schemes, both administered by the government, allow costs to be controlled, and for prices to be made relatively uniform across the country. The problem in the US is not the quality of service, but the affordability of it. Every year hundreds of thousands of Americans declare bankruptcy due to medical bills. (The exact number is unclear, but some estimates put it over 600,000).

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/64300 ... cal-bills/
(This seems to be a pretty good article on the subject)

I could not seem to find comparable statistics for Japan unfortunately, but it seems to be "unheard of" in Japan.

BY the way, this is an article about the problems with Japan's health care system:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/ ... BhJuWngpaQ
Japan’s buckling health care system at a crossroads
Of course it isn't perfect, but most of the problems cited seem to be relatively less severe than those in the US.
In Japan, health care has long been likened to air and water — givens often taken for granted. Like all other developed countries except the United States, Japan has universal coverage, which means everyone is covered by the public health insurance program.

The government has long boasted that Japanese health care is first-class, affordable and helps extend its high life expectancy rates. In 2016, Japan was ranked first in the world in this category, with the average life span hitting 83.7 years.

“Our nation has achieved an average life expectancy and health care standards that are at the world’s top levels,” the health ministry declares on its website, citing four main features of the system: insurance for everyone — regardless of pre-existing conditions or economic status; free access, meaning patients are free to choose any hospital nationwide; high-level care at low cost; and the use of public money to maintain it.

But a closer look at the system tells another side of the story.
(problems exist, click the article if you want to read about them)
But:
Though premiums have risen over the years, medical services have been affordable for most people. Unlike in the U.S., stories of people going bankrupt due to medical bills are unheard of — at least so far.
Also, the government can sometimes use a heavy hand to control costs:
A case in point is an unprecedented decision made by the government in November to halve the official price of Opdivo, a biotechnology-driven lung cancer drug.

Costing ¥35 million per year per patient, there were fears that its widespread use could drain state coffers. But while the move sent shock waves through the nation’s pharmaceutical industry, not to mention knocking down stock prices of Ono Pharmaceutical Co., which developed and markets Opdivo, patients have remained totally unaffected.

Under the public insurance program, people undergoing costly treatments are exempted from paying more than a certain amount determined by their income level.
Basically there's a cap, which is determined by your income level, to how much you have to pay. Hence medical bankruptcies are "unheard of" in Japan. Also the government can hold down the cost of expensive pharmaceuticals by deciding, say, to cut the price in half.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Anaxagoras
Posts: 22484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thanks Obama(care)

ed wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:17 am
What does the term "expenditures" include?
"the action of spending funds" "an amount of money spent"
ed wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:17 am
Explanation/discussion of japanese costs. TL:Skimmed.
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/ ... ff.10.3.87
Good article, but from 1991 so perhaps a bit dated.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare