Lion Air

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Rob Lister
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Lion Air

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:58 am

What the ruck! 189 dead.
Shortly after taking off from Jakarta, the pilot radioed air traffic control reporting technical problems; he was given permission to turn back. He did not report an emergency, per CNN. Data from flight-tracking site FlightRadar24 shows that the plane reached 2,000 feet about two minutes into the flight, then dropped more than 500 feet and veered to the left. It started climbing again and got to its highest altitude of 5,000 feet. In the final moments before data was lost at an altitude of 3,650 feet, it gained speed. The plane crashed into the sea 13 minutes after taking off.
http://www.newser.com/story/266554/jet- ... d-new.html

They haven't found the black box yet (or even the plane) so we can only guess. Pundits are pointing at the pitot tube but that fantasy. It was Trump.

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:16 pm

The pitot tube? So there's only one pitot tube?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Rob Lister
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:27 pm

I just fucking told you it was Trump!

Looks like at least two
Image

Navy jets usually only have one. I doubt it was the pitot tube. When they [vary rarely] fail, it is by freezing up. But this was fucking Malaysia at an altitude of [at highest] 5000ft. Problems were reported at 2000ft. Too fucking warm to fail. And besides, it was Trump!

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:50 pm

What if an insect crawls in there? Or if Trump puts one in there?

Wikipedia says that they think that one failure was due to a wasp or wasps building a nest inside one.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Rob Lister
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:00 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:50 pm
What if an insect crawls in there? Or if Trump puts one in there?

Wikipedia says that they think that one failure was due to a wasp or wasps building a nest inside one.
That sneaky fucking bastard!

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shemp
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Re: Lion Air

Post by shemp » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:21 am

I don't think Trump could fit in a pitot tube.
"It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:50 am

One of the black boxes recovered. I infer that means the other one will be found shortly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-46054114
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Rob Lister
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:03 pm

Trump was counting on that box not being found.

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Rob Lister
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:59 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:50 am
One of the black boxes recovered. I infer that means the other one will be found shortly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-46054114
Not found yet.

But the first box is pointing to a loss of AoA data. (angle of attack). Or something. Thus causing the computer to force the nose into a dive even if the pilot takes manual control. They didn't bother to tell the pilots how to do the cntl-shift-spacebar-scrolllock to turn that feature off. Here's one source
https://www.cos-mag.com/article/38569-u ... sia-crash/
The ones the boeing uses look like mini flight vanes, something like:
Image
I don't think a "bug" is going to fuck with that too much. Not the real kind anyway.

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ed
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Re: Lion Air

Post by ed » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:17 pm

Every time there is a crash I ask this: why do they not capture every fucking possible metric real time and shoot them into the cloud?
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Rob Lister
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:35 pm

That seems like a good idea but what if it's a clear day?

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ed
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Re: Lion Air

Post by ed » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:24 am

Then you can see forever, silly.

But you saw that one coming, didn't you?
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Anaxagoras
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:31 am

Sounds like the sort of thing that should never fail. Obviously it has failed but if failure of a system leads to almost certain death, there ought to be a backup system or some kind of redundancy. And pilots should know what to do in case of failure.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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ed
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Re: Lion Air

Post by ed » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:38 am

Ergo don't fly Lion Air
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izittrue
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Re: Lion Air

Post by izittrue » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:33 am

Don’t touch the pitot tube.
Will Rogers -
- Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip

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Rob Lister
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:26 pm

New page in the flight manual
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2018/11/2 ... ols-focus/


Image

fucking wow.

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sparks
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Re: Lion Air

Post by sparks » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:53 pm

So....the pilots really didn't know how to stop a malfunctioning automatic system from flying them into the ground?

Shit.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Rob Lister
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:51 am

Indonesia Releases Preliminary Report on Lion Air Crash
Article: https://spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/ae ... -air-crash


Fairly in-depth analysis pdf.
https://reports.aviation-safety.net/201 ... MINARY.pdf

The other still not found. Not too long and fascinating.
Image
Image: Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee
In this figure from the report, the up/down on the blue line shows the pilots trying to manually trim the aircraft’s stabilizer. The orange line below shows the MCAS system automatically trimming, and then countering the pilots’ manual efforts to trim.


MCAS was trying to mutiny!

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ed
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Re: Lion Air

Post by ed » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:58 am

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... e=Homepage

Moment by moment from the NYT

I assume everyone can get around their paywall.
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Rob Lister
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Re: Lion Air

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:37 am

And another 737 crashes like this one 8 minutes after takeoff. Looks like it might be for the exact same reason.
Grief flowed in from 35 countries Sunday as rescuers searched through remains in Ethiopia and experts asked how yet another Boeing 737-8 MAX could plunge from the sky—this also killing everyone on board, the New York Times reports. Flight data tweeted by FlightRadar24 shows that Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 was heading for Kenya when it failed to climb at a steady speed, the pilot issued a distress call, and Bole International Airport in Addis Ababa allowed it to return. But the pilot lost connection with air traffic control six minutes after taking off and crashed about 31 miles south of the capital. Weather was good and the plane was brand new. All 157 people on board perished.
http://www.newser.com/story/272386/2/cr ... cious.html

The aircraft is now grounded.