Japan stuff

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ed
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Japan stuff

Post by ed »

What are the equivalents of city, county and state in japan? I am trying to explain how there can be multiple jurisdictions in the US.
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Re: Japan stuff

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Google broken again?
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:ball2:

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Re: Japan stuff

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Are you den mother or something? Answer the fucking question or get out of the way. This is business my slacker friend, business.
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Re: Japan stuff

Post by Anaxagoras »

City: Shi (市) in Japanese, and just city in English.
State: Prefecture (in Japanese, usually Ken (県) although some prefectures use a different word, like some states are actually a "commonwealth".)
County: Ku (区) (Sometimes this is translated as "ward") A large city may comprise several Ku, like New York City comprises several counties.
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Re: Japan stuff

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Ha!!

Thank you. You will be declared a national treasure in Japan for your efforts to advance the proliferation of weapons of war.

Hotmess, otoh, will be consigned to the deep place reserved for work-shy gaijin :x :x :x :x :x where he will filter public bath water thru a filter in his mouth. Forever. :x :x :x
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Re: Japan stuff

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It's not me that's workshy, Ed. As this thread testifies. :mrgreen:
Yep, you totally outsmarted me ~ Wildcat.

:ball2:

I'm sure I came up with Twatter first. ~ Moi
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Re: Japan stuff

Post by Anaxagoras »

Some trivia: Tokyo is technically a Prefecture, not a city.

Sort of like New York is both a city and a whole state, but not really like that. There's also 23 "special wards" within the prefecture of Tokyo that could be considered the "city" of Tokyo. But it actually has some (relatively) rural areas too, and even includes some small islands out in the Pacific ocean.
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Re: Japan stuff

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Hotarubi wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:30 pm It's not me that's workshy, Ed. As this thread testifies. :mrgreen:
Ah, Grasshopper, you have achieved Awareness Lv. I: recognition of the benefit of being management, which, by it's very nature, is workshy. How do you think I can so unerringly recognize it in others? The difference is simply where on the totem pole you are. Right now, my friend, if we were in Japan, you would be grovelling on the floor, with eyes averted, pathetically holding up your pitiful, water and feces stained, business card as if in supplication. You would paint a sad and, frankly, humorous picture to your betters as we directed other subordinates to roughly cast you aside and then to clean the ground that you defiled by your very presence.

Continue on your journey, enlightened one.

n.b. nothing personal :D

Anax ... does that about sum it up?
Last edited by ed on Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Japan stuff

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I thought Tokyo was an prefectural amalgamation of cities, or something like that.
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:ball2:

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Re: Japan stuff

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ed wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:01 pm
Hotarubi wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:30 pm It's not me that's workshy, Ed. As this thread testifies. :mrgreen:
Ah, Grasshopper, you have achieved Awareness Lv. I: recognition of the benefit of being management, which, by it's very nature, is workshy. How do you think I can so unerringly recognize it in others? The difference is simply where on the totem pole you are. Right now, my friend, if we were in Japan, you would be grovelling on the floor, with eyes averted, pathetically holding up your pitiful, water and feces stained, business card as if in supplication. You would paint a sad and, frankly, humorous picture to your betters as we directed other subordinates to roughly cast you aside and then to clean the ground that you defiled by your very presence.

Continue on your journey, enlightened one.

n.b. nothing personal :D

Anax ... does that about sum it up?
No Ed, you'd be cowering in fear of me. As this thread testifies again. :mrgreen:
Yep, you totally outsmarted me ~ Wildcat.

:ball2:

I'm sure I came up with Twatter first. ~ Moi
I only steal from the rich. :BigGrin3: ~ Witness
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Re: Japan stuff

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Hotarubi wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:02 pm I thought Tokyo was an prefectural amalgamation of cities, or something like that.
It's complicated. For one thing Tokyo uses a different word from all the other prefectures, 都 (tou) sometimes translated as "metropolis" although I'm not sure that's the best translation. "Capital" might be a better one. The same kanji appears in Kyoto, the old capital of Japan.

You could also translate Tokyo as Eastern Capital (and in China, Beijing is "Northern Capital" while Nanjing in "Southern Capital")

In olden times though, it was called Edo, before it was the capital.
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Re: Japan stuff

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Anaxagoras wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:19 pm
Hotarubi wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:02 pm I thought Tokyo was an prefectural amalgamation of cities, or something like that.
It's complicated. For one thing Tokyo uses a different word from all the other prefectures, 都 (tou) sometimes translated as "metropolis" although I'm not sure that's the best translation. "Capital" might be a better one. The same kanji appears in Kyoto, the old capital of Japan.

You could also translate Tokyo as Eastern Capital (and in China, Beijing is "Northern Capital" while Nanjing in "Southern Capital")

In olden times though, it was called Edo, before it was the capital.
Ed-o
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Re: Japan stuff

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Re: Japan stuff

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No, just governors, like the states.
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Re: Japan stuff

Post by shuize »

Anaxagoras wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:41 pm City: Shi (市) in Japanese, and just city in English.
State: Prefecture (in Japanese, usually Ken (県) although some prefectures use a different word, like some states are actually a "commonwealth".)
County: Ku (区) (Sometimes this is translated as "ward") A large city may comprise several Ku, like New York City comprises several counties.

The 「都道府県」 (todoufuken) is some kind of administrative distinction. Might be size. Might be population.

"Tou-kyou" being the "eastern" 「東」 "capital"「京」 province, it gets to call itself a "metropolis."

Hokkaido is a 「道」(“dou”) (pronounced as it’s said in its name).*

Osaka and Kyoto are both 「府」(“fu”).** As Anax also says, the only 「都」(“tou”) is Tokyo.

I think “ward” is a better translation for 区 (“ku”) than “county.” Consider 「選挙区」("senkyoku") .

For “county,” I’d use 「郡」(“gun”) (pronounced like a baby saying “goo”-n rather than Ed’s favorite thing).

Also, are there really several counties in New York City? Having grown up out west where counties are the size of wimpy eastern states, that seems very odd to me. Many people don't realize Japan is actually geographically smaller than California. Size-wise, 「県」("ken") feel more like counties to me. Although, I know they are loosely based on the old feudal 「藩」("han") fiefdoms.

As an aside, this just popped into my head related to administrative divisions and California. I remember years ago, my father came to visit and we were walking the dog in the local park. I pointed out a temple and told him, "That temple and wall you're resting against has been there longer than the Spanish and their missions (the early administrative system there) have been in California." I'm not sure he cared. (Ha! Ha!)


* ETA: I seem to recall that the name "Hokkaido" (trans. North Sea Way) also has something to do with the Ainu language. Wiki also suggests the same, with "Kai" having significance in Ainu. Interestingly, Wiki also says Hokkaido did not actually become a "prefecture" until 1947 and rather than "Hokkaido-ken," they used "-do" as the administrative designation. I thought it had something to do with its size. I guess I was wrong.

-- Opps --

Actually, upon further reading, not completely wrong. Anax's link suggests the "-do" referred a larger region consisting of several provinces, also used for other regions such as the "Tokaido," etc. Silly me for ever thinking I might be wrong.

** As Anax's link above reminds me, the "fu" / "ken" was originally an "urban" / "rural" distinction.
Last edited by shuize on Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:14 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Japan stuff

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The 5 "boroughs" of New York are also counties, right? Brooklyn is Kings County, Staten Island is Richmond County, Manhattan is New York County, and Queens and the Bronx and Queens County and Bronx County. So 5 counties (or boroughs) in one city.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... unties.svg
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Re: Japan stuff

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shuize wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:11 amThe 「都道府県」 (todoufuken) is some kind of administrative distinction. Might be size. Might be population.
Historically it might have been size or population, but now I think it's just a historical artifact. They are all mostly functionally the same.

Kanagawa-ken (my home) actually has the second-largest population among prefectures after Tokyo, and Yokohama, Tokyo's little sister, is the second-largest city by population, even larger than Osaka (although less dense than Osaka).
I think “ward” is a better translation for 区 (“ku”) than “county.” Consider 「選挙区」("senkyoku") .

For “county,” I’d use 「郡」(“gun”) (pronounced like a baby saying “goo”-n rather than Ed’s favorite thing).
Is 「郡」 still in use though? Or is that mostly from before the 20th century, like 「藩」? There's no "gun" in my mailing address, but there is a "ku".
"Ward" would be a pretty good translation too, but rural areas also have "ku" and "ward" sounds urban to me. As you point out, the whole country is smaller than California, so prefectures are correspondingly smaller than US states, and likewise, ku are smaller than US counties. But they are what prefectures are divided into. 区 are further divided into 町 and such.
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Re: Japan stuff

Post by shuize »

Anaxagoras wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:27 am
shuize wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:11 amThe 「都道府県」 (todoufuken) is some kind of administrative distinction. Might be size. Might be population.
Historically it might have been size or population, but now I think it's just a historical artifact. They are all mostly functionally the same.

Kanagawa-ken (my home) actually has the second-largest population among prefectures after Tokyo, and Yokohama, Tokyo's little sister, is the second-largest city by population, even larger than Osaka (although less dense than Osaka).
I think “ward” is a better translation for 区 (“ku”) than “county.” Consider 「選挙区」("senkyoku") .

For “county,” I’d use 「郡」(“gun”) (pronounced like a baby saying “goo”-n rather than Ed’s favorite thing).
Is 「郡」 still in use though? Or is that mostly from before the 20th century, like 「藩」? There's no "gun" in my mailing address, but there is a "ku".
"Ward" would be a pretty good translation too, but rural areas also have "ku" and "ward" sounds urban to me. As you point out, the whole country is smaller than California, so prefectures are correspondingly smaller than US states, and likewise, ku are smaller than US counties. But they are what prefectures are divided into. 区 are further divided into 町 and such.

My first homestay family in Hokkaido's address was 「~郡~町」, (i.e. ~"gun" and ~ "chou"), so I'm pretty sure they still use it. But it may be a rural or Hokkaido thing. I'll ask my girlfriend if they use 「郡」 down here in Kansai.

ETA: I haven't asked my girlfriend, but I did find this on Wiki Japan.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%83%A1 ... E%E4%BB%A3

Short version: There are still 「郡」throughout Japan (most common in Hokkaido, although Kanagawa prefecture still has some, too), but they are apparently less administratively significant than in the past. I also see that there are no cities included within the 「郡」designation, only "towns" and "villages."