MLM

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Luke T.
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Post by Luke T. »

My parents were Amwayans for years. The forgot the maxim every dealer knows: Don't smoke your own product. When I joined the Navy, they got in their heads that I was their in for selling soap to the entire U.S. Navy. They would be the richest Amwayans in history.

I was a recruit fresh out of boot camp at the time.

I had to stop talking to them for a while.
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Cool Hand
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Post by Cool Hand »

I have been approached three times, twice for Amway, and once for some gold coin MLM/ponzi scheme. All three times were under false pretenses.

The two Amway people came to me ostensibly seeking my legal services. The first one was a guy who managed our flying club, so I knew him from there. He knew I was just getting out of the army and starting a private law practice. He asked me one day while I was out preflighting an airplane if I was going to do any business law. I said "Yes." He asked if I would be interested in doing some legal work for him and some business associates in a new business venture. I asked what kind of business, and he evaded the question. I asked again and he evaded again. The big tipoff should have been when he didn't want to meet at my office, but rather have me meet him and his associates at a hotel conference room where they were getting together to discuss business.

I was eager for new business, so I agreed to meet them there. I knew as soon as I showed up that something was seriously wrong. There were a few dozen people who were unnaturally cheery and peppy. They gathered in a conference room and a guy made some introductory remarks, asked new persons to introduce themselves, and then showed some video of persons who had achieved their dreams of owning mansions and yachts using the system. Afterwards, they were cheering and working themselves into some sort of frenzy. It was surreal and sickening. I realized immediately that they were selling nothing but greed and dreams. They was no business and no real product. I couldn't wait to bolt as soon as I could, and I did. It felt like I was in the middle of some weird cult and we were about to start serving Kool Aid. I never spoke to that asshole who invited me under false pretenses again.

A few years later another new client made an appointment with me at my office for some business advice and launched into that crap. I threw him out. Again, I should have known not to set him an appointment without his explaining what his business was. I learned at that point never to set appointments for business clients unless they would tell me on the phone what was the nature of their business. Any reluctance and they simply wouldn't be my clients. Trust is a two-way street.

The third and final time I got roped into one of these pitches was from an old high school friend. We are no longer friends. He came to me for legitimate legal work from time to time, so it was not suspicious when he asked me to have lunch with him one day. At lunch his pitched this MLM deal in which the product was a gold coin that was sure to appreciate in value. It was clear right away that there was no intrinsic value to the coin. The whole thing was simply a pyramid scheme. When I tried to point that out, he was very insistent that it was not and tried to explain how it wasn't. He wasn't convincing. I let him buy my lunch, but I will never lunch with him again, nor will I meet with him. I considered it an abuse of my trust and friendship.

Just say "No" to MLM.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
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Doctor X
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Post by Doctor X »

You of course billed them.

--J.D.
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clarsct
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Post by clarsct »

Doctor X wrote:You of course billed them.

--J.D.
I would hope so.


If, for some reason, someone spiked my drink with something heavy enough to make MLM seem like a good idea, AND I thought "Hey, CH would LOVE this idea!!!", even then, I would not approach him as a client to pitch it to him.


That's just RUDE.
When Religion becomes State, and breaking the Law becomes a Sin, then Dissenters will become Heretics.

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xouper
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Post by xouper »

Cool Hand wrote:... The first one was a guy who managed our flying club, so I knew him from there. He knew I was just getting out of the army and starting a private law practice. He asked me one day while I was out preflighting an airplane ...
Hey I didn't know you iz also a pilot. I only have a bit over 300 hours, but some of them are pretty crazy hours. 8)

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Doctor X
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Post by Doctor X »

clarsct wrote:If, for some reason, someone spiked my drink with something heavy enough to make MLM seem like a good idea, AND I thought "Hey, CH would LOVE this idea!!!", even then, I would not approach him as a client to pitch it to him.


That's just RUDE.
But not MEAN, else I would have to encourage it.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image

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Churchill
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Post by Churchill »

Cool Hand wrote: ...I knew as soon as I showed up that something was seriously wrong. There were a few dozen people who were unnaturally cheery and peppy. They gathered in a conference room and a guy made some introductory remarks, asked new persons to introduce themselves, and then showed some video of persons who had achieved their dreams of owning mansions and yachts using the system. Afterwards, they were cheering and working themselves into some sort of frenzy. It was surreal and sickening. I realized immediately that they were selling nothing but greed and dreams. They was no business and no real product. I couldn't wait to bolt as soon as I could, and I did. It felt like I was in the middle of some weird cult and we were about to start serving Kool Aid. I never spoke to that asshole who invited me under false pretenses again...
Your story cracks me up, because it reminds me of the same kind of things that happened at the meetings I went to; people jolly and smiling ear to ear for no apparent reason, it was the most contrived thing I ever saw.
Cool Hand wrote: A few years later another new client made an appointment with me at my office for some business advice and launched into that crap. I threw him out. Again, I should have known not to set him an appointment without his explaining what his business was. I learned at that point never to set appointments for business clients unless they would tell me on the phone what was the nature of their business. Any reluctance and they simply wouldn't be my clients. Trust is a two-way street.
...
I find that not telling the mark about the business upfront is very common / standard procedure. It must be that once the person knows that it is MLM, their success rate at getting said person to a meeting goes down drastically. It is difficult to maintain any kind of relationship, especially a profitable long-term relationship when it is based on deception, hence one of the major reasons of MLM failure.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."

John Stuart Mill

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Doctor X
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Post by Doctor X »

While a bit of a tangent, one of Suzuki's Dark Water short stories involves a man on a boat--little "pleasure cruise"--with a couple trying to get him into their MLM. Much of the "fun" is him trying to dodge the questions.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image

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specious_reasons
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Post by specious_reasons »

Churchill wrote:
Cool Hand wrote: ...I knew as soon as I showed up that something was seriously wrong. There were a few dozen people who were unnaturally cheery and peppy. They gathered in a conference room and a guy made some introductory remarks, asked new persons to introduce themselves, and then showed some video of persons who had achieved their dreams of owning mansions and yachts using the system. Afterwards, they were cheering and working themselves into some sort of frenzy. It was surreal and sickening. I realized immediately that they were selling nothing but greed and dreams. They was no business and no real product. I couldn't wait to bolt as soon as I could, and I did. It felt like I was in the middle of some weird cult and we were about to start serving Kool Aid. I never spoke to that asshole who invited me under false pretenses again...
Your story cracks me up, because it reminds me of the same kind of things that happened at the meetings I went to; people jolly and smiling ear to ear for no apparent reason, it was the most contrived thing I ever saw.
What's worse is that it often takes a Christian overtone. I gather the big rally events are as more tent revivals as they are "business meetings". God and Jesus are invoked frequently.

The person who tried to sell me on Amway described an event he had recently attended. Horrified me.
ta-
DAVE!!!

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Churchill
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Post by Churchill »

Doctor X wrote:While a bit of a tangent, one of Suzuki's Dark Water short stories involves a man on a boat--little "pleasure cruise"--with a couple trying to get him into their MLM. Much of the "fun" is him trying to dodge the questions.

--J.D.
I recall a line that the AMWAY MLMers used when someone asked too many questions. They would retort that you had detailitis, meaning it was like some type of affliction asking too many questions. All of this implying in a not so subtle and impolite way that dissent / scrutiny are not tolerated and will be ridiculed.

If you mention facts like 99% of people quit AMWAY without making money or only 0.1% (I'm guessing the percentages here as I cannot recall exactly what they are, but they are very small) make a living at it, they will come back with another dumb line like "why would you listen to all of the quitters and not the people who stuck it out".
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."

John Stuart Mill

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Churchill
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Post by Churchill »

specious_reasons wrote: What's worse is that it often takes a Christian overtone. I gather the big rally events are as more tent revivals as they are "business meetings". God and Jesus are invoked frequently.

The person who tried to sell me on Amway described an event he had recently attended. Horrified me.

The events I went to did have religious overtones. Several times during the larger meetings the person speaking would invoke God and ask for a moment of silence for prayer. During the really big meetings, they would have church service prior. You should go just for an anthropological experiment :D
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."

John Stuart Mill

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Doctor X
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Post by Doctor X »

Same Well Poisoning tactic used by any cultist and woo against skeptical fault?

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image