Weird Diets

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Anaxagoras
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Weird Diets

Post by Anaxagoras »

This one sounds bizarre. Also, it involves Jordan Peterson.

The Jordan Peterson All-Meat Diet

It's actually even more narrow than that: all beef (plus salt and water, nothing else; except for vodka and bourbon).
I know how ridiculous it sounds,” Mikhaila Peterson told me recently by phone, after a whirlwind of attention gathered around the 26-year-old, who is now offering dietary advice to people suffering with conditions like hers. Or not so much dietary advice as guiding people in eating only beef.

At first glance, Peterson, who is based in Toronto, could seem to be one of the many emerging semi-celebrities with a miraculous story of self-healing—who show off postpartum weight loss in bikini Instagrams and sell one thing or another, a supplement or tonic or book or compression garment. (Not incidentally, she is the daughter of the famous and controversial pop psychologist Jordan Peterson. More on that later.) But Peterson is taking the trend in extra-professional health advice to an extreme conclusion: She is not doing sponsored posts for health products, but actively selling one-on-one counseling ($75 for a half hour) for people who want to stop eating almost everything.
Peterson seems to be reaching suffering people despite a lack of training or credentials in nutrition or medicine, and perhaps because of that distinction. Her Instagram bio: “For info on treating weight loss, depression, and autoimmune disorders with diet, check out my blog or fb page!” The blog, which is called “Don’t Eat That,” says at the top that “many (if not most) health problems are treatable with diet alone.” This is true, if at odds with the disclaimer at the bottom of the page that her words are “not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.”

I told her I’m surprised people need further counseling, in that an all-beef diet is very straightforward.

“They mostly want to see that I’m not dead,” she said. “What I basically do is say, ‘Hey, look at all the things that happened to me and brought me to where I am now. Isn’t it weird?’ And then let people draw their own conclusions.”

Peterson described an adolescence that involved multiple debilitating medical diagnoses, beginning with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. Some unknown process had triggered her body’s immune system to attack her joints. The joint problems culminated in hip and ankle replacements in her teens, coupled with “extreme fatigue, depression and anxiety, brain fog, and sleep problems.”

. . .

Her story took a dramatic turn in 2015, when the underdog protagonist, nearly at the end of her rope, figured out the truth for herself. It was all about food.

Peterson adopted a common approach to dieting: elimination. She started cutting out foods from her diet, and feeling better each time. She began with gluten, and she kept going, casting out more and more—not just gluten or dairy or soy or lectins or artificial sweeteners or non-artificial sweeteners, but everything. Until, by December 2017, all that was left was “beef and salt and water,” and, she told me, “all my symptoms went into remission.”

“And you quit taking all your medications?”

“Everything.”
OK, well maybe she's a special case, what with her auto-immune disease. But apparently her father, the famous Jordan Peterson also follows the same diet:
Yet in a July appearance on the comedian Joe Rogan’s podcast, Jordan Peterson explained how Mikhaila’s experience had convinced him to eliminate everything but meat and leafy greens from his diet, and that in the last two months he had gone full meat and eliminated vegetables. Since he changed his diet, his laundry list of maladies has disappeared, he told Rogan. His lifelong depression, anxiety, gastric reflux (and associated snoring), inability to wake up in the mornings, psoriasis, gingivitis, floaters in his right eye, numbness on the sides of his legs, problems with mood regulation—all of it is gone, and he attributes it to the diet.

“I’m certainly intellectually at my best,” he said. “I’m stronger, I can swim better, and my gum disease is gone. It’s like, what the hell?”

“Do you take any vitamins?” asked Rogan.

“No. No, I eat beef and salt and water. That’s it. And I never cheat. Ever. Not even a little bit.”

“No soda, no wine?”

“I drink club soda.”

“Well, that’s still water.”

“Well, when you’re down to that level, no, it’s not, Joe. There’s club soda, which is really bubbly. There’s Perrier, which is sort of bubbly. There’s flat water, and there’s hot water. Those distinctions start to become important.”

Peterson reiterated several times that he is not giving dietary advice, but said that many attendees of his recent speaking tour have come up to him and said the diet is working for them. The takeaway for listeners is that it worked for Peterson, and so it may work for them. Rogan also clarified that though he is also not an expert, he is fascinated by the fact that he hasn’t heard any negative stories about people who have started the all-meat diet.
OK, are there any possible negative consequences though?
Peterson himself says:
“Well, I have a negative story,” said Peterson. “Both Mikhaila and I noticed that when we restricted our diet and then ate something we weren’t supposed to, the reaction was absolutely catastrophic.” He gives the example of having had some apple cider and subsequently being incapacitated for a month by what he believes was an inflammatory response.

“You were done for a month?”

“Oh yeah, it took me out for a month. It was awful ...”

“Apple cider? What was it doing to you?”

“It produced an overwhelming sense of impending doom. I seriously mean overwhelming. There’s no way I could’ve lived like that. But see, Mikhaila knew by then that it would probably only last a month.”

“A month? From fucking cider?”

“I didn’t sleep that month for 25 days. I didn’t sleep at all for 25 days.”

“What? How is that possible?”

“I’ll tell you how it’s possible: You lay in bed frozen in something approximating terror for eight hours. And then you get up.”

The longest recorded stretch of sleeplessness in a human is 11 days, witnessed by a Stanford research team.
So if you do go on this all-beef diet, but you cheat and eat something else you may not be able to sleep for a month? WTF? That doesn't sound good to me. His daughter also had severe negative reactions lasting weeks from something as small as eating an olive or having pepper on her steak.

And here's what an independent expert had to say about this diet:
There is so much evidence—abundant, copious evidence acquired over decades of work from scientists around the world—that most people benefit from eating fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, and seeds. This appears to be largely because fiber in plants is important to the flourishing of the gut microbiome. I ran this by some experts, just to make sure I wasn’t missing anything that might suggest a beef-salt diet is potentially something other than a bad idea. I learned that it was worse than I thought.

“Physiologically, it would just be an immensely bad idea,” Jack Gilbert, the faculty director at the University of Chicago’s Microbiome Center and a professor of surgery, told me during a recent visit to his lab. “A terribly, terribly bad idea.”

Gilbert has done extensive research on how the trillions of microbes in our guts digest food, and the look on his face when I told him about the all-beef diet was unamused. He began rattling off the expected ramifications: “Your body would start to have severe dysregulation, within six months, of the majority of the processes that deal with metabolism; you would have no short-chain fatty acids in your cells; most of the by-products of gastrointestinal polysaccharide fermentation would shut down, so you wouldn’t be able to regulate your hormone levels; you’d enter into cardiac issues due to alterations in cell receptors; your microbiota would just be devastated.”

While much of the internet has been following this story in a somewhat snide way, Gilbert appeared genuinely concerned and saddened: “If she does not die of colon cancer or some other severe cardiometabolic disease, the life—I can’t imagine.”
I wonder how long they both can keep it up? (Assuming they really do follow this diet). If so, will there be health consequences in the long term? Could the "feeling better" part be explained by something like the placebo effect? What about the negative reactions? Could that also be a psychogenic phenomenon? :notsure:
Last edited by Anaxagoras on Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wierd Diets

Post by Doctor X »

Man, there is so much bullshit in it I am not sure where to begin!

Appears to boil down to selling you the dream that you can do whatever you want, and you will be healthy and happy.

--J.D.
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Re: Wierd Diets

Post by Doctor X »

Anaxagoras wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:31 am This one sounds bizarre. Also, it involves Jordan Peterson.
[Stop that!--Ed.]

Right . . . sorry:
Or not so much dietary advice as guiding people in eating only beef.
Okay, here is a semi-sane review of the nutritional value of beef:

Healthline: BEEF!

notice the water content. For the dangers, let us go with WebMD for just a baseline that does not go overboard.
Peterson is taking the trend in extra-professional health advice to an extreme conclusion: She is not doing sponsored posts for health products, but actively selling one-on-one counseling ($75 for a half hour) for people who want to stop eating almost everything.
Peterson seems to be reaching suffering people despite a lack of training or credentials in nutrition or medicine, and perhaps because of that distinction. Her Instagram bio: “For info on treating weight loss, depression, and autoimmune disorders with diet, check out my blog or fb page!” The blog, which is called “Don’t Eat That,” says at the top that “many (if not most) health problems are treatable with diet alone.Like glioblastoma? Too soon? This is true, if at odds with the disclaimer at the bottom of the page that her words are “not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.”
So if it is bullshit, and it is, you cannot sue me for it! Of course, she will blame professional medical advice.
Peterson described an adolescence that involved multiple debilitating medical diagnoses, beginning with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. Bullshit since you do not just "get better" from this, and she damn well received treatment for it. Some unknown process had triggered her body’s immune system to attack her joints. The joint problems culminated in hip and ankle replacements in her teens, coupled with “extreme fatigue, depression and anxiety, brain fog, and sleep problems.”

Peterson adopted a common approach to dieting: elimination. She started cutting out foods from her diet, and feeling better each time. She began with gluten, and she kept going, casting out more and more—not just gluten or dairy or soy or lectins or artificial sweeteners or non-artificial sweeteners, but everything. Until, by December 2017, all that was left was “beef and salt and water,” and, she told me, “all my symptoms went into remission.”

“And you quit taking all your medications?”

“Everything.”
His lifelong depression, anxiety, gastric reflux (and associated snoring) Not associated, inability to wake up in the mornings, psoriasis, gingivitis, floaters in his right eye, numbness on the sides of his legs, problems with mood regulation—all of it is gone, and he attributes it to the diet.
So conditions unrelated to diet, a lot of psychosomatic or multifactorial to even simply natural get worse and better. . . . This is Quack 101 which has been used to justify such since the monkeys first tossed Gram's Mom out of the tree.

But not before shemp's Mom emerged from the swamp.

I digress. . . .

“I drink club soda.”

“Well, that’s still water.”

“Well, when you’re down to that level, no, it’s not, Joe.
Yes, it fucking is you idiot!
There’s club soda, which is really bubbly. There’s Perrier, which is sort of bubbly. There’s flat water, and there’s hot water. NOT THE HOT WATER!!Those distinctions start to become important.”
What the fuck do you think it is when the CO2 leaves?
Peterson reiterated several times that he is not giving dietary advice, Because he could go to jail but said that many attendees of his recent speaking tour have come up to him and said the diet is working for them. The takeaway for listeners is that it worked for Peterson, and so it may work for them. Rogan also clarified that though he is also not an expert, he is fascinated by the fact that he hasn’t heard any negative stories about people who have started the all-meat diet.
Mr. I Do Not Believe We Landed on the Moon takes anecdotal evidence without any critical attention? Heavens to Betsy. . . . But WAIT
“Well, I have a negative story,” said Peterson. “Both Mikhaila and I noticed that when we restricted our diet and then ate something we weren’t supposed to, the reaction was absolutely catastrophic.” He gives the example of having had some apple cider and subsequently being incapacitated for a month by what he believes was an inflammatory response.

It produced an overwhelming sense of impending doom. I seriously mean overwhelming. There’s no way I could’ve lived like that. But see, Mikhaila knew by then that it would probably only last a month.” By clairvoyance?

“A month? From fucking cider?”

I didn’t sleep that month for 25 days. I didn’t sleep at all for 25 days.”
--J.D.
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Re: Wierd Diets

Post by Anaxagoras »

What about scurvy? Just wondering.

Is there any vitamin C in beef? He claims that he does not take vitamin supplements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy
Scurvy is a disease resulting from a lack of vitamin C (ascorbic acid).[1] Early symptoms include weakness, feeling tired, and sore arms and legs.[1][2] Without treatment, decreased red blood cells, gum disease, changes to hair, and bleeding from the skin may occur.[1][3] As scurvy worsens there can be poor wound healing, personality changes, and finally death from infection or bleeding.[2]

Typically, scurvy is caused by a lack of vitamin C in the diet.[1] It takes at least a month of little to no vitamin C before symptoms occur.[1][2] In modern times, it occurs most commonly in people with mental disorders, unusual eating habits, alcoholism, and old people who live alone.[2] Other risk factors include intestinal malabsorption and dialysis.[2] Humans and certain other animals require vitamin C in their diets to make the building blocks for collagen.[2] Diagnosis typically is based on physical signs, X-rays, and improvement after treatment.[2]

Treatment is with vitamin C supplements taken by mouth.[1] Improvement often begins in a few days with complete recovery in a few weeks.[2] Sources of vitamin C in the diet include citrus fruit and a number of vegetables such as tomatoes and potatoes.[2] Cooking often decreases vitamin C in foods.[2]
Normally of course, one does not need to take vitamin supplements if one eats a balanced diet including fruits and vegetables. But if you are only eating meat?
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Re: Wierd Diets

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Indeed. What did they eat on long ship voyages?

Heavily salted beef and the like because they sort of "kept."

Heck, it is Science History 101 to learn about how the British Navy got into sodomy.






What?

--J.D.
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Re: Wierd Diets

Post by shemp »

Doctor X wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:37 am Indeed. What did they eat on long ship voyages?

Heavily salted beef and the like because they sort of "kept."

Heck, it is Science History 101 to learn about how the British Navy got into sodomy.






What?

--J.D.
Such a diet would cause one to be fully impacted from bow to stern. Sodomy was the easiest way to stir things up and get them moving again.
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Re: Weird Diets

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You write from experience.

Not, that there is anything wrong with it. . . .

--J.D.
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Re: Weird Diets

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Doctor X wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:08 pm You write from experience.

Not, that there is anything wrong with it. . . .

--J.D.
Hey pal, I'm on the mound, not behind the plate! Your mom, on the other hand, is in the Catchers' Hall of Fame.
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Anaxagoras »

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:29 pm
Is that a British commercial? The voice sounds British to me.
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Witness »

Anaxagoras wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:31 amIt's actually even more narrow than that: all beef
Just one more step and you're in the lofty kingdom of the breatharians. :mrgreen:
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Doctor X »

shemp wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:27 pm
Doctor X wrote: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:08 pm You write from experience.

Not, that there is anything wrong with it. . . .
Hey pal, I'm on the mound, not behind the plate! Your mom, on the other hand, is in the Catchers' Hall of Fame.
Do not blame her that you cannot pitch into the zone. . . .


. . .



. . . she does have a wide zone, after all.

--J.D.
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Anaxagoras »

An old diet fad is back in vogue:

Please can everyone stop drinking their own urine?

Everyone? Huh? Haw many people are doing this?
Say hello to the latest health fad - it's even yellower than a turmeric latte, and more bitter than a charcoal lemonade.
Yep, it's urine. It's drinking your own urine.
While drinking your own pee seems like the kind of thing you'd only do if you were trapped up a mountain or stranded in a desert somewhere, it looks like some people have started gulping down the golden stuff in the privacy of their own homes.
For example, Kayleigh Oakley, a 33-year-old yoga teacher from Newington, Kent, claims drinking her own urine has given her relief from a number of long-term health issues, including autoimmune disorder Hashimoto’s thyroid disease, and chronic pain condition fibromyalgia.
She tells Press Association she started drinking her own pee - which some people call “urine therapy” but is also known as urophagia - two years ago.
“I heard that urine can reset the immune system, promote general good health, and is good for the skin,” she says. “So thought I would give it a go.”
And give it a go she did. Now, not only does she drink a jar of fresh wee every day, she also uses cotton wool to dab it all over her face - which she claims keeps her skin “glowing”.
The article gives 3 women as examples, plus a fourth who supposedly drinks her dog's urine in a "viral video". :notsure:


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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Doctor X »

Your Tweet cannot be read.

Reported to the Bosses!

--J.D.

P.S. I once listened, patiently, to a girl who returned from a Yoga retreat in India somewhere discussing the drinkage ["Drinkage?"--Ed.]--perfectly cromulent--of urine. She could not justify it. I mean, basically, it is concentrated sweat.

I love the "reset the immune system." So in the production of urine, at no point does the product "reset the immune system," yet when swallowed it will magically do this?
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Witness »

Anaxagoras wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:36 pm
reset the immune system
I see the immune system runs on Windows™.

Reset to what? Factory specs, before it painstakingly learned to distinguish self and non-self and how to strangle all those pesky germs and nasty molecules? Good luck, body.

Just a buzzword, of course, but it seems that having to go through painful or disgusting steps enhances the placebo effect (slightly), so it could "work", somehow.

And ancestral wisdom can't be wrong, right? :roll:
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Anaxagoras »

Witness wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:56 am
Anaxagoras wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:36 pm
reset the immune system
I see the immune system runs on Windows™.

Reset to what? Factory specs, before it painstakingly learned to distinguish self and non-self and how to strangle all those pesky germs and nasty molecules? Good luck, body.

Just a buzzword, of course, but it seems that having to go through painful or disgusting steps enhances the placebo effect (slightly), so it could "work", somehow.

And ancestral wisdom can't be wrong, right? :roll:
"Reset" certainly does sound like nonsense, although some of these people are complaining about autoimmune disorders, something I have fortunately never experienced. I suppose someone with an autoimmune disease might want to "reset" their immune system if such a thing were possible. You want it to attack the nasty intruders, not parts of your own body that you want to stay healthy.
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Re: Weird Diets

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If you could "reset" your immune system, you would discover how horrible childhood viral diseases are to adults.

Hope you like shingles.

--J.D.
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Anaxagoras »

Good point.
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Re: Weird Diets

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Anaxagoras wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:07 am Good point.
Quoted to preserve for future reference.

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Anaxagoras »

Doctor X wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:45 am If you could "reset" your immune system, you would discover how horrible childhood viral diseases are to adults.

Hope you like shingles.

--J.D.
It occurs to me that one of the possible consequences of the anti-vaccine movement may be more adults getting childhood diseases. Perhaps this is already happening, or maybe it will happen in the future.

The reason: in the past before vaccines, most people got childhood diseases during childhood. But with most people still vaccinating their kids, it might be possible for the kids of anti-vaxxers to make it through childhood without getting these diseases. But that doesn't mean they are out of the woods, because now they are an adult who is not immune to these diseases either through vaccination or having had it during childhood.
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Doctor X
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Doctor X »

That is a part of the "herd" effect of immunization.

I do not have raw numbers of how the incidence breaks down, but the rise of measles in Europe is not all small children.

One of the reason I get the "flu shot" is so I will not infect others.

But then I am great like that.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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Witness
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Witness »

Trying to become immortal, I suppose:

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sparks
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by sparks »

They are out there.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
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Anaxagoras
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Anaxagoras »

Yeah, that one seems a little bizarre. If she really wants to not mensturate though, or reproduce, I believe there are proven, widely used medical options available for her. They don't mean you will live forever, but they can stop mensturation and reproduction.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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sparks
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by sparks »

Yep. Sew it shut and let it hair over.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Anaxagoras »

Came across this:

Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey says he eats only one meal a day and fasts all weekend. Experts say this kind of 'intermittent fasting' could be dangerous.

Apparently he breaks his fast on Sunday night, but that still means going almost 48 hours without food every week. Sounds like 6 meals per week if we take him at his word (I'm skeptical that he actually follows it that strictly). But there's more.
Dorsey said he eats one meal on weekdays at dinnertime and then eats nothing for the entire weekend — a diet that's in line with intermittent fasting, an eating fad popular with Silicon Valley tech workers.
Extreme diet or disordered eating? That's the question that began circulating on Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey's own social-media platform after the executive revealed his unconventional eating habits, which add up to just five meals every week.
(Six by my count)
Variations of the diet have become increasingly common among Silicon Valley tech workers seeking efficiency in their eating routines. Dan Zigmond, Facebook's director of analytics, fasts for 15 hours a day, and former Evernote CEO Phil Libin founded an entire community dedicated to intermittent fasting called WeFast.

These fasting diets are part of a longstanding Silicon Valley "biohacking" trend, in which people meticulously tweak their diets and daily habits to live longer and be more productive.

Like some of his fellow tech executives, Dorsey has said his diet helps him save time, stay focused, and sleep better at night — but science has yet to definitively prove the health benefits of a fasting diet for most people, including intermittent fasting. In fact, some nutrition experts said Twitter users who called Dorsey's reported diet "disordered eating" are right, according to one doctor.

"Yes, that is disordered," said Dr. Jennifer Gaudiani, CEDS, FAED, an internal-medicine doctor who specializes in eating disorders. "Humans are mammals that need certain amounts of food and fluid to maintain our physiological species and energy to do things we want to do in the world."
They call it "biohacking" :roll:

The Silicon Valley execs who don't eat for days: 'It's not dieting, it's biohacking'
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Witness
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by Witness »

↑ Is my diet weird? :? (Of course I don't buy into any of the woo.)

I ditched breakfast years ago, noticing I was only thirsty, not hungry, when crawling out of bed.

Main meal 4 – 6 hours later.

Light meal before going to bed so my stomach hogs the blood and my brain can easily switch off.

Now for the "fasting" part: if I want to lose weight, I just have to cut out all carbs and skip the late meal, and it goes down by nearly a pound a day. Ditto if I eat at a restaurant in the evening, that will be my only food for the day.

My take is just that as I don't move that much, I don't really need lots of calories. So I go for variety of tastes, which also ensures variety of food types and should prevent any deficiency. (As it happens, just read about scurvy in the 1st world: apart from the homeless & the very poor, there are cases of teenagers subsisting on a diet of peanut butter sandwiches – don't they have parents?)
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Re: Weird Diets

Post by shemp »

Pizza gives you all the nutrients you need, it just depends on what you put on it.
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