Anti-vaxxers in power

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:22 am

Why Measles Is a Quintessential Political Issue of Our Time
On Wednesday, the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations held a timely and important hearing that had no hope of getting media attention on the same day that President Trump’s former personal lawyer Michael Cohen testified before another committee. The overlooked hearing focussed on ongoing measles outbreaks in the United States. Between January 1st and February 21st, a hundred and fifty-nine cases of measles were diagnosed in ten states—more cases than there were in all of 2017. Measles is highly contagious and potentially deadly. It’s also entirely preventable through vaccination.

Testifying at the hearing were Anthony S. Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. One after another, subcommittee members asked Messonnier and Fauci if measles was dangerous and vaccines were safe. The doctors, neither of whom is a stranger to public speaking, exchanged befuddled glances. How does one handle a question to which the answer is obvious? Time after time, Fauci and Messonnier handled the questions with grace and patience. Grace, though, is a double-edged sword: a polite, respectful response to an ignorant question inevitably affirms the impression that the question itself is valid.

Representative Jan Schakowsky, a Democrat from Illinois, asked Messonnier to answer “yes” or “no” to a question about the primary culprit behind the outbreaks: Is it “vaccine hesitancy and misinformation”? Messonnier responded with a diplomatic “Yes and no.” She explained that children who are not covered by health insurance are less likely to be vaccinated, which suggests that parents’ opposition to vaccination is not the only reason that fewer children are being vaccinated. In response to a later question from Representative Frank Pallone, a Democrat from New Jersey, Fauci was more decisive: he called disinformation “an important problem.” But he immediately cautioned against blaming parents who have bad information; the goal, he said, should be to provide them with better, evidence-based messaging.

Sitting behind Fauci was a woman who kept silently raising a book titled “How to End the Autism Epidemic.” The phrase refers to a bogus, long-ago debunked theory that preservatives that were once used in the vaccine for measles, mumps, and rubella (M.M.R.) caused autism. The British gastroenterologist who once hypothesized this link lost his medical license years ago, but books, brochures, and articles promoting his theory continue to circulate and inspire people to reject vaccination and even to protest during congressional hearings.

Vaccination is a basic political issue, because it is the subject of community agreement. When a high-enough percentage of community members are immunized, a disease can be effectively vanquished. In epidemiological terms, this is known as “herd immunity,” which cannot be maintained below a certain threshold. When enough people reject the community agreement, they endanger the rest. Willfully unvaccinated adults and children can spread diseases to those who cannot be vaccinated or haven’t been vaccinated, such as infants and people with a compromised immune system; these vulnerable populations would probably be safe in conditions of herd immunity. Vaccination and the refusal to vaccinate are political acts: individual decisions that affect others and the very ability of people to inhabit common spaces.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Doctor X » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:58 am

It is more important to find a viable excuse for why Her Turn lost, Anax.

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Witness
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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Witness » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:51 am

From June 2017:


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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by sparks » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:31 am

Brilliant!
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:37 am

18-Year-Old Testifies About Getting Vaccinated Despite Mother's Anti-Vaccine Beliefs
Eighteen-year-old Ethan Lindenberger appeared before the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions on Tuesday to talk about how he decided to get vaccinated against the wishes of his mother, who is anti-vaccine.
. . .

Lindenberger grew up without common vaccinations such as those for measles and chicken pox before finally getting immunizations starting in December. He described being pulled out of class each year and told he needed to get his shots, only to be opted out each time by his mother.

Most states allow parents to claim a religious exemption to vaccination requirements for their children to attend school. Seventeen states currently allow parents to opt out of vaccinations for personal or philosophical reasons.
. . .

Lindenberger's mother got most of her misinformation about vaccines on Facebook, he told the committee. Meanwhile, he got information about vaccines from the CDC, the World Health Organization and scientific journals, he said.

Facebook has come under scrutiny by health advocates and lawmakers over anti-vaccination groups and ads on its network. Rep. Adam Schiff wrote to Mark Zuckerberg last month out of concern that Facebook and Instagram are "surfacing and recommending messages" that discourage children's vaccination. The company told The Washington Post it has "taken steps to reduce the distribution of health-related misinformation on Facebook, but we know we have more to do."
This is a problem with Facebook, but also a more general problem with the Internet itself. If not Facebook, it would be sites like "NaturalNews" which is a huge spreader of misinformation.
NaturalNews.com[note 1] and its sister site WakingScience.com are websites run by Mike Adams (self-labeled "The Health Ranger") which promotes alternative medicine and related conspiracy theories.[2] Even other quacks think it's a quack site.[3] The site particularly specializes in vaccine denialism and the alleged vaccines-autism link,[4] AIDS/HIV denialism,[5] quack cancer treatments,[6] and conspiracy theories about "Big Pharma".[7] If there's an alternative medicine or alternative medical treatment out there, you can guarantee that NaturalNews has one article singing its praises to the sky and one more bashing the stupid "skeptics".

In short: If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong.
I don't really have a solution to this dilemma, because if you're talking about regulating the whole Internet, that would be a nightmare, but if a major company like Facebook or YouTube would at least self-regulate the content on its own platform, I don't see that as an inherently bad thing.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Witness
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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Witness » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:12 am

Researchers studied the connection between the MMR vaccine and autism in a nationwide cohort of all children born in Denmark to Danish-born mothers from 1999 to 2010. They followed kids from age one through the end of August 2013.

Overall, 95 percent of the kids in the study got the vaccine.

Children with autistic siblings were more than seven times more likely to be diagnosed with autism than kids without this family history, the study found.

Boys were four times more likely to be diagnosed with autism than girls, the study found.

And, children who had no childhood vaccinations were 17 percent more likely to be diagnosed with autism than kids who did get recommended vaccinations.
[…]
The study wasn't a controlled experiment designed to prove whether or how vaccines might cause autism.

Another drawback is the potential for some kids to have undiagnosed autism before getting the MMR vaccine, which could make the MMR vaccine appear linked to autism when it really isn't connected, the study authors note. It's also possible that the onset of autism symptoms might lead parents to skip the vaccine.

Still, the study adds to a large body of evidence showing that vaccines don't cause autism, writes Dr. Saad Omer of Emory University in Atlanta, co-author of an accompanying editorial.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... la-n979176

No link to the source in the article.

So apparently there is a link to autism – a negative link. :lmao:

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by sparks » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:45 am

And the real linky is more likely genetic.

Take that you Antivaxxing shit-for-genes assholes! :)
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:58 am

The study wasn't a controlled experiment designed to prove whether or how vaccines might cause autism.
Yeah, but you can't do a controlled experiment, like a double-blind, placebo-controlled study. But we do have a kind of "natural experiment" since some kids don't get vaccinated. I think it's still strong evidence, and more than sufficient.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by sparks » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:11 am

Indeed it is.

"children who had no childhood vaccinations were 17 percent more likely to be diagnosed with autism"

Even if uncontrolled it says one helluva lot. But that's what humans do: See patterns where there are none.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Witness » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:56 pm

Another, albeit indirect, negative link:
Long-term Risk of Neuropsychiatric Disease After Exposure to Infection In Utero

Key Points
  • Question Does exposure to maternal infection during pregnancy increase the long-term risk for major psychiatric disorders in the child?
  • Findings In this Swedish population-based cohort study of children born between 1973 and 2014, exposure to infection in pregnancy significantly increased the risk for autism spectrum disorder and depression.
  • Meaning Maternal infection during pregnancy may be responsible for some portion of autism and depression in childhood and adulthood among the exposed offspring.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaps ... ct/2727135

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Witness » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:00 am

Seems the Italians had a change of mind:
Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

Italian children have been told not to turn up to school unless they can prove they have been properly vaccinated.

The deadline follows months of national debate over compulsory vaccination.

Parents risk being fined up to €500 (£425; $560) if they send their unvaccinated children to school. Children under six can be turned away.

The new law came amid a surge in measles cases - but Italian officials say vaccination rates have improved since it was introduced.

Under Italy's so-called Lorenzin law - named after the former health minister who introduced it - children must receive a range of mandatory immunisations before attending school. They include vaccinations for chickenpox, polio, measles, mumps, and rubella.

Children up to the age of six years will be excluded from nursery and kindergarten without proof of vaccination under the new rules.

Those aged between six and 16 cannot be banned from attending school, but their parents face fines if they do not complete the mandatory course of immunisations.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47536981

Nothing like a good epidemic to get your mind right. :mrgreen:

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Doctor X » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:58 am

20 states have introduced anti-vaccination bills

At least 20 states have introduced bills this year that, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, would (a) broaden the reasons why parents can exempt kids from getting vaccines even if there isn't a medical need and (b) require doctors to provide more information on the risks of vaccines. [Lou M. Griggs B. Even with measles outbreaks across the US, at least 20 states have proposed anti-vaccination bills. CNN. Mar 6, 2019] These misguided legislative efforts coincide with reports of 206 individual cases of measles confirmed in 11 states during the first two months of 2019. The majority of those cases were among nonvaccinated people. [Measles cases and outbreaks. CDC. Mar 4, 2019] The measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine is very safe. Thanks to a highly effective vaccination program in the United States and improved measles control in the Americas region, measles was declared eliminated from the United States in 2000.

QuackWatch
--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Witness » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:42 am

Anti-vax parents sue to keep unvaccinated kids in school during outbreak

County fiercely defends restrictions amid measles outbreak that has sickened 145.

As New York’s Rockland County grapples with a large and lengthy outbreak of measles, a group of anti-vaccine parents sued officials for temporarily barring their unvaccinated children from school—and the county is not having it.

In a fiery response, Rockland County Attorney Thomas Humbach forcefully defended the legality of the county’s move, which was intended to thwart the spread of disease. He also went so far as to cast doubt on the validity of the religious exemptions the parents had used to opt their children out of required vaccinations.

“The [Rockland County Health] Commissioner, Dr. Patricia Ruppert, has every legal right, under New York State's Public Health Law and the County's Sanitary Code, to take every necessary step to stop the outbreak of measles in this county,” Humbach said in a statement released to the press.

“[T]he right to practice religion freely does not include liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease or the latter to ill health or death,” Humbach wrote. Moreover, he added, “[t]hese religious exemptions run the gamut from references to organized Christian doctrine to a generalized spirituality. As the case progresses, we expect several of the exemptions to be challenged as not evincing a sincere religious belief against vaccination.”

Rockland’s battle with measles began late last September, when an international traveler arrived with a suspected case. Since then, other international travelers have arrived in the county with the extremely infectious, sometimes-fatal disease.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/03 ... -outbreak/

Vaccines interfere with the radiations of my health crystals. :evil:

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Witness » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:13 am

Image

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by shemp » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:29 am

One never emerges from The Eternal Pit of Stupid.
"It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek

Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:00 pm

Poor baby. Stupid parent.

Is the internet making more people stupid? I don't think so many people questioned vaccines back in the 70s and 80s when I was a kid. Also, "flat earth" was just a joke back then. You might call someone a flat earther as an insult, but nobody really believed it. Now it seems like stupid ideas are spreading thanks to the "democratization" of the media where any idiot can have a blog or a youtube channel or spread their dumbth via Facebook or other means.

It's great that I can usually find the answer to any question I might have on any topic known to man with a google search but it has also allowed lies and terrible ideas to spread too. It just makes it easier to spread information, whether it's good information or not.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 pm

Combination of the Dunning-Kruger effect and confirmation bias.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Witness » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:00 am

There is a whole spectrum of "dumbth", as sparks would say, from flat-earthers and conspiracy "theorists" to PoMos in academia for its "higher" forms. (This last one isn't directly fueled by the media/the Internet, but of course it contributes.)

We all know that the dividing line is that science and logic are hard, and you can fail, but blather is easy, free, makes you feel good, even different or superior, and you can always weasel out if cornered. This is a strong motivation.

My impression is that it all started before the Internet, at least during the sixties and perhaps even earlier, when society's stuffy traditional constraints began to crumble, as did the trust in science/technology/progress. (Cold War, Vietnam War, 68…)
And now we have a jumble of travel buddies – astrology, pop-culture, UFOs, New Age, religions, reconstructed traditions, quackery, &c. – where it isn't ridiculous anymore to pick the tidbits one finds appealing and throw together a soothing Weltanschauung.

:oldman:

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Doctor X » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:47 am

Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Anti-vaxxers in power

Post by Witness » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:23 am

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Anti-vaxx expert is an expert and expertly detects non-experts.