Chess

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Anaxagoras
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Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

I'm not good at chess at all but I do sometimes like to admire the game from afar.

Recently I came across this video and I enjoyed it so I thought I'd pass it along in case anyone else is interested.



Apparently there's more like that on this channel if you like that one.
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Re: Chess

Post by Doctor X »

All I see is Anti-Semitism. . . .

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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

I've never seen anax post such racist drivel here. I'm going to forgive him, but just barely.
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Re: Chess

Post by ed »

I'm triggered.
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

Well he certainly did turn into a cunt as he got older. It's sad. I think he was mentally ill.
Imagine how life could have been for him if he wasn't his own worst enemy. He could have rested on those laurels for the rest of his life. He could have been a popular celebrity is he wasn't such a racist asshole. Something corrupted his brain. Maybe the same thing that made him a genius, who knows. He said horrible, horrible things, but the harm he caused was primarily to his own self.

But this was before all that, back when he was a young chess prodigy. It's about what he was, not what he became.
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Re: Chess

Post by Doctor X »

Well, it is not as if you cited his own autobiography as evidences that he was not a member of the SS an Anti-Semite then had a temper-tantrum over the shear stupidity of the citation.








Too soon?

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

Back to chess. Same channel, different players.

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Re: Chess

Post by gnome »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasparov_versus_the_World

I remembered this occurred, but did not know the result was so interesting. I will have to enter the game into my chess program and review.
Kasparov wrote:It is the greatest game in the history of chess. The sheer number of ideas, the complexity, and the contribution it has made to chess make it the most important game ever played.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

Fucking Anax has got me addicted to watching chess games.
Usual channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL5YbN ... LIegT5QAbA
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

It is kind of addicting, isn't it?

Nice channel you found there, btw.

Apparently the world championship of chess is happening right now.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

How about a nice conundrum.

Image

White to move.
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Re: Chess

Post by gnome »

Rob Lister wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:35 pm How about a nice conundrum.

Image

White to move.
I figure I'm walking into a trap, but bxa8?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

gnome, that's what I would have done.

we would be losers together.

It's a theoretical setup by Wilhelm Steinitz (World Chess Champion, from 1886 to 1894)
Spoiler:
black replies: g4xh3

white replies however

black: #h2
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Re: Chess

Post by ed »

?

why?
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

ed wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:41 pm ?

why?
why what?
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Re: Chess

Post by ed »

why is that the solution?
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

ed wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:50 pm why is that the solution?
it's not. the solution is
Spoiler:
hxg2 fuck in 6
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Re: Chess

Post by gnome »

Rob Lister wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:33 pm gnome, that's what I would have done.

we would be losers together.

It's a theoretical setup by Wilhelm Steinitz (World Chess Champion, from 1886 to 1894)
Spoiler:
black replies: g4xh3

white replies however

black: #h2
I'm out of practice, but I'm kicking myself missing a mate two moves out... geez.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

gnome wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:01 pm
Rob Lister wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:33 pm gnome, that's what I would have done.

we would be losers together.

It's a theoretical setup by Wilhelm Steinitz (World Chess Champion, from 1886 to 1894)
Spoiler:
black replies: g4xh3

white replies however

black: #h2
I'm out of practice, but I'm kicking myself missing a mate two moves out... geez.
Steinitz was discussing the 1862 British Chess Association rule that a pawn does not have to take a promotion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion ... ation_rule
I don't really it though.
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

Rob Lister wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:35 pm How about a nice conundrum.

Image

White to move.
Before looking at the spoilers, my first thought was to take that rook with the white pawn, promoting to queen.

Second choice is take that pawn between the kings with the bishop. After that, it depends on what black's next move is.

I admit I'm not very good at this game, and the most obvious moves are probably wrong.
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

Been watching some more videos.

The world chess championship (human division) is underway right now between the top 2 human players in the world. So far they've played 8 games and they've all ended in draws. This is the 8th game:



The American player, Caruana, missed a good move in the middle that might have led to a victory.

Watching this video made me realize how much human chessplay is now influenced by AI chessplay. The best chess players in the world are now computer programs, and even the best human player would likely lose to any of them. But they can use these programs to practice, hone their skills, and even probably get ideas from. They can go back to their past games and analyze any position with an algorithm and see what the computer would have done, and, if their memory is good, remember it for the future. Sometimes the value of a particular move doesn't become apparent until a few moves later.

Anyway, this guy seems to be pretty good at analyzing the various positions.

Here's his analysis of a match between two computer programs, both of which are rated higher than the highest rated human player:



Leela Chess Zero demolishes her opponent here. She has some cool avatars you can search for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leela_Chess_Zero
Leela Chess Zero is a free and open-source chess engine and distributed computing project. Development has been spearheaded by programmer Gary Linscott, who is also a developer for the Stockfish chess engine. Leela Chess Zero was adapted from the Leela Zero Go engine,[1] which in turn was based on Google's AlphaGo Zero project,[2] also to verify the methods in the AlphaZero paper as applied to the game of chess.

Like Leela Zero and AlphaGo Zero, Leela Chess Zero only knows the basic rules and nothing more.[1] Leela Chess Zero is trained by a distributed computing network coordinated at the Leela Chess Zero website. As of August 2018, it had trained itself by playing over 23 million games of chess against itself.[1]
I think there's a difference between a "chess engine" like Stockfish and an "AI" like Leela Chess Zero. But that's sort of beyond me to explain better than Wikipedia can. The latter seem to have surpassed the former though.

Here's another youtuber talking about her:

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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:00 am
Anaxagoras wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:39 am ... underway right now between the top 2 human players in the world ...
Don't you just love living in The Future? :)
It's kinda cool. I wonder what other things AI will be able to do in my lifetime.

Chess is neat, but ultimately it's just a game after all.

ETA: Oh yeah, I almost wrote "the top two players in the world" but I decided that needed to be qualified to be strictly accurate.
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Re: Chess

Post by Doctor X »

Move the horsey!

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"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
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"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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Re: Chess

Post by gnome »

Prawn to King four.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

game 9 another draw. very long drawn out draw. 3.5 hours
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

10 was played thrusday. also a draw game 11 is in progress now.
https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tourn ... 018/1/1/11

I gotta root for Caruana 'cause he's 'Merican! Kinda.
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

Another draw
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Re: Chess

Post by shemp »

At this level, it is very difficult to win.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

10 broke the old record for draws.

12 is the last game. if that's a draw they go into timed playoffs. Carlson is favored but Caruana doesn't know why.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

Game 12 starts at 10:00 et.

Pundits swear Caruana will lose in blitz so he has to win here.

https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tourn ... 018/1/1/12

This is so exciting I almost couldn't nap.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

Move 29.

The game is utterly even but time is now a huge factor. Caruana is going to lose unless Carlson gets locked up with a bsod.

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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

Wow fucking wow!

Image

They agreed to a draw!fucking11eleventy.

what the fuck!

This is a sad day for chess.

Caruana offered the draw and Carlson [laughingly] agreed.

That stinks.

Caruana didn't think he could outright win and Carlson didn't think he [could] lose in blitz.

I feel very cheated.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:40 pm There is somebody or other's conjecture (not mine) that two perfect players will always draw.
I don't know but I don't see how it could be otherwise. But that assumes they actually PLAY TO THE END.

I'm very angry. Kinda.
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Re: Chess

Post by shemp »

I think it's ridiculous to decide a world championship with speed chess. However, with the skills of today's world class players, a 24 game match at 40/150 time control would probably have 22 draws.

I was in NYC in 1995 to see some of the games in the PCA World Championship match between Kasparov and Anand at the WTC. Spent quite a bit of money watching nothing but draws.

Carlsen is better than Kasparov was at his peak, but that's due to the level of preparation available today.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

shemp wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:04 pm I think it's ridiculous to decide a world championship with speed chess.
I agree. But they both opted for that with this draw.

Carlsen is better than Kasparov was at his peak,...
I'll take your word for it but ... :notsure:
but that's due to the level of preparation available today.
KASPAROV wrote: In light of this shocking draw offer from Magnus in a superior position with more time, I reconsider my evaluation of him being the favorite in rapids. Tiebreaks require tremendous nerves and he seems to be losing his.
https://twitter.com/Kasparov63

Also, a blast from the not too distant past.


As a bonus, agadmator provides his analysis.
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

I was avoiding this thread until I could watch for myself to avoid spoilers. I do question why Carlson offered a draw in that situation with his opponent under time pressure. It was not one of those situations that was clearly headed to a draw anyway.

I guess on the bright side it means that there will be more chess. Like a football game that goes to overtime, the fans get more football for the same price.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

A pretty good write-up on 538.com
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ca ... -overtime/
“I wasn’t in a mood to find the punch,” Carlsen said by way of explanation after the game.
Wasn't in the mood?
“I should be really happy with a draw,” Caruana said. “My position had no chances to win.”
Engines don't concur but whatever.
Caruana said he was surprised by the draw offer. So was everyone else.

Let’s leave a deeper discussion of whether Carlsen’s shocking gesture is good for chess for later (it’s absolutely not) and take a look at how we got here.
Image


They’ll play a mini-match of four rapid games, in which each player gets 25 minutes plus 10 bonus seconds after each move. Points will be awarded as they were during regulation: 1 point for a win, half a point each for a draw.

If the score is still tied after those four games, they’ll play a mini-match of two blitz games, in which each player gets five minutes plus three bonus seconds after each move. If that’s tied, they’ll play another and another and so on, for up to five mini-matches, or 10 total blitz games.

If all of those two-game blitz matches are tied, they’ll play a single game of Armageddon. In this format, white gets five minutes, black gets four minutes, and a draw counts as a win for black. Lots are drawn (no pun intended) to determine who gets which color.
Lots are drawn. Stop. You're killing me!
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship

patience is needed. It is rewarded. Picks up where Carlson left off.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister »

Carlson wins three fast games in a row
https://www.youtube.com/user/AGADMATOR/ ... &flow=grid
He is crowned again.
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras »

Quite a decisive finish after 12 draws in a row.

Maybe next time they should give less time for the "classical" portion. Maybe 80 minutes instead of 100 to start? And 20% less for the incremental time?

Just spitballing. Unless they like having lots of draws, or they think this was just a fluke.
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