Chess

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:38 am

Rob Lister wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:35 pm
How about a nice conundrum.

Image

White to move.
Before looking at the spoilers, my first thought was to take that rook with the white pawn, promoting to queen.

Second choice is take that pawn between the kings with the bishop. After that, it depends on what black's next move is.

I admit I'm not very good at this game, and the most obvious moves are probably wrong.
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Anaxagoras
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:39 am

Been watching some more videos.

The world chess championship (human division) is underway right now between the top 2 human players in the world. So far they've played 8 games and they've all ended in draws. This is the 8th game:



The American player, Caruana, missed a good move in the middle that might have led to a victory.

Watching this video made me realize how much human chessplay is now influenced by AI chessplay. The best chess players in the world are now computer programs, and even the best human player would likely lose to any of them. But they can use these programs to practice, hone their skills, and even probably get ideas from. They can go back to their past games and analyze any position with an algorithm and see what the computer would have done, and, if their memory is good, remember it for the future. Sometimes the value of a particular move doesn't become apparent until a few moves later.

Anyway, this guy seems to be pretty good at analyzing the various positions.

Here's his analysis of a match between two computer programs, both of which are rated higher than the highest rated human player:



Leela Chess Zero demolishes her opponent here. She has some cool avatars you can search for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leela_Chess_Zero
Leela Chess Zero is a free and open-source chess engine and distributed computing project. Development has been spearheaded by programmer Gary Linscott, who is also a developer for the Stockfish chess engine. Leela Chess Zero was adapted from the Leela Zero Go engine,[1] which in turn was based on Google's AlphaGo Zero project,[2] also to verify the methods in the AlphaZero paper as applied to the game of chess.

Like Leela Zero and AlphaGo Zero, Leela Chess Zero only knows the basic rules and nothing more.[1] Leela Chess Zero is trained by a distributed computing network coordinated at the Leela Chess Zero website. As of August 2018, it had trained itself by playing over 23 million games of chess against itself.[1]
I think there's a difference between a "chess engine" like Stockfish and an "AI" like Leela Chess Zero. But that's sort of beyond me to explain better than Wikipedia can. The latter seem to have surpassed the former though.

Here's another youtuber talking about her:

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Chess

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:00 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:39 am
... underway right now between the top 2 human players in the world ...
Don't you just love living in The Future? :)
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:06 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:00 am
Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:39 am
... underway right now between the top 2 human players in the world ...
Don't you just love living in The Future? :)
It's kinda cool. I wonder what other things AI will be able to do in my lifetime.

Chess is neat, but ultimately it's just a game after all.

ETA: Oh yeah, I almost wrote "the top two players in the world" but I decided that needed to be qualified to be strictly accurate.
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Re: Chess

Post by Doctor X » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:09 am

Move the horsey!

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Re: Chess

Post by gnome » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:12 pm

Prawn to King four.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:31 pm

game 9 another draw. very long drawn out draw. 3.5 hours

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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:28 pm

10 was played thrusday. also a draw game 11 is in progress now.
https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tourn ... 018/1/1/11

I gotta root for Caruana 'cause he's 'Merican! Kinda.

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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:55 pm

Another draw
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shemp
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Re: Chess

Post by shemp » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:18 pm

At this level, it is very difficult to win.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:01 am

10 broke the old record for draws.

12 is the last game. if that's a draw they go into timed playoffs. Carlson is favored but Caruana doesn't know why.

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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:57 pm

Game 12 starts at 10:00 et.

Pundits swear Caruana will lose in blitz so he has to win here.

https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tourn ... 018/1/1/12

This is so exciting I almost couldn't nap.

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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:48 pm

Move 29.

The game is utterly even but time is now a huge factor. Caruana is going to lose unless Carlson gets locked up with a bsod.

Image

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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:07 pm

Wow fucking wow!

Image

They agreed to a draw!fucking11eleventy.

what the fuck!

This is a sad day for chess.

Caruana offered the draw and Carlson [laughingly] agreed.

That stinks.

Caruana didn't think he could outright win and Carlson didn't think he [could] lose in blitz.

I feel very cheated.

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Re: Chess

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:40 pm

There is somebody or other's conjecture (not mine) that two perfect players will always draw.

ETA: Wilhelm Steinitz. :coolspecs:
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:44 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:40 pm
There is somebody or other's conjecture (not mine) that two perfect players will always draw.
I don't know but I don't see how it could be otherwise. But that assumes they actually PLAY TO THE END.

I'm very angry. Kinda.

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Re: Chess

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:47 pm

As with champions winning by the opponent "resigning", playing to the end is really not necessary when you are hot enough shit. :p
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shemp
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Re: Chess

Post by shemp » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:04 pm

I think it's ridiculous to decide a world championship with speed chess. However, with the skills of today's world class players, a 24 game match at 40/150 time control would probably have 22 draws.

I was in NYC in 1995 to see some of the games in the PCA World Championship match between Kasparov and Anand at the WTC. Spent quite a bit of money watching nothing but draws.

Carlsen is better than Kasparov was at his peak, but that's due to the level of preparation available today.
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Re: Chess

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:38 pm

shemp wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:04 pm
I think it's ridiculous to decide a world championship with speed chess.
I agree. But they both opted for that with this draw.

Carlsen is better than Kasparov was at his peak,...
I'll take your word for it but ... :notsure:
but that's due to the level of preparation available today.
KASPAROV wrote: In light of this shocking draw offer from Magnus in a superior position with more time, I reconsider my evaluation of him being the favorite in rapids. Tiebreaks require tremendous nerves and he seems to be losing his.
https://twitter.com/Kasparov63

Also, a blast from the not too distant past.


As a bonus, agadmator provides his analysis.
He Who Dares, Wins

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Chess

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:37 am

I was avoiding this thread until I could watch for myself to avoid spoilers. I do question why Carlson offered a draw in that situation with his opponent under time pressure. It was not one of those situations that was clearly headed to a draw anyway.

I guess on the bright side it means that there will be more chess. Like a football game that goes to overtime, the fans get more football for the same price.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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