Religiousity in the US vs. Religiousityin Europe

Hot topics in delusion and rationalization.
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Grammatron
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Post by Grammatron »

DanishDynamite wrote:
Grammatron wrote:French woo-wooism.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Gepan-Sepra.htm
Could you elaborate on where the wooism is in this link?
Like this?
"In 60% of the cases reported here, the description of this phenomenon is apparently one of a flying machine whose origin, modes of lifting and/or propulsion are totally outside our knowledge."
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote: Disagree. At most, it boils down to current tensions and how a book which seems to point the finger at the entity responsible for the current tension, might sell well.
If they generally beleive it, it doesn't matter why. It's still woo-woo. If they don't believe it, and it sells well anyway (maybe they just bought it because they were curious, or any of a variety of other reasons I can think of) THEN I would concede that it is purely being pissed off at the current state of relations between our countries.
Thanks.

If I understand you correctly, you have no idea why the book was bought.

In which case using the bestseller status as some sort of indictment doesn't hold much water, does it?
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Grammatron wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote:
Grammatron wrote:French woo-wooism.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Gepan-Sepra.htm
Could you elaborate on where the wooism is in this link?
Like this?
"In 60% of the cases reported here, the description of this phenomenon is apparently one of a flying machine whose origin, modes of lifting and/or propulsion are totally outside our knowledge."
Sorry, thats the opinion of some employee at this institute. How does it relate to the woo-wooism of the French in general?
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Post by Grammatron »

DanishDynamite wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote:
Grammatron wrote:French woo-wooism.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Gepan-Sepra.htm
Could you elaborate on where the wooism is in this link?
Like this?
"In 60% of the cases reported here, the description of this phenomenon is apparently one of a flying machine whose origin, modes of lifting and/or propulsion are totally outside our knowledge."
Sorry, thats the opinion of some employee at this institute. How does it relate to the woo-wooism of the French in general?
Uhm it's a government-funded project from taxes collected from the French people? And it's the only one of its kind in the developed world. Seems like it relates rather well.
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

DanishDynamite wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote: Disagree. At most, it boils down to current tensions and how a book which seems to point the finger at the entity responsible for the current tension, might sell well.
If they generally beleive it, it doesn't matter why. It's still woo-woo. If they don't believe it, and it sells well anyway (maybe they just bought it because they were curious, or any of a variety of other reasons I can think of) THEN I would concede that it is purely being pissed off at the current state of relations between our countries.
Thanks.

If I understand you correctly, you have no idea why the book was bought.

In which case using the bestseller status as some sort of indictment doesn't hold much water, does it?
Nope. But if you go all the way back to when the subject was first brought up I said that I didn't pay it all that much heed to begin with. But since the idea that Europeans might merely shift their woo-woo tendencies to area other than religion was brought to the table by Luke, I threw it in as one more piece of fodder for that idea. It was an interesting idea and I wanted to see where it would go. I still think it's an idea worth looking into, though I will concede (and have from the beginning) that I have no idea whether it is actually true or not.

Plus I am doing a bunch of looooooong compiles at work today and am very bored which means I am in an argumentative mood. I'd argue that black is white right now if I thought the argument might be interesting:D
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Folks, I hope you are enjoying this thread as much as I am. Given the lack I'm currently experiencing in my job, I need the intellectual stimulation from somewhere else, i.e from you guys. Otherwise, my brain would turn to mush (No Jokes!)

Anyway, it is bedtime for me now. See y'all later.
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Post by Grammatron »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote: Disagree. At most, it boils down to current tensions and how a book which seems to point the finger at the entity responsible for the current tension, might sell well.
If they generally beleive it, it doesn't matter why. It's still woo-woo. If they don't believe it, and it sells well anyway (maybe they just bought it because they were curious, or any of a variety of other reasons I can think of) THEN I would concede that it is purely being pissed off at the current state of relations between our countries.
Thanks.

If I understand you correctly, you have no idea why the book was bought.

In which case using the bestseller status as some sort of indictment doesn't hold much water, does it?
Nope. But if you go all the way back to when the subject was first brought up I said that I didn't pay it all that much heed to begin with. But since the idea that Europeans might merely shift their woo-woo tendencies to area other than religion was brought to the table by Luke, I threw it in as one more piece of fodder for that idea. It was an interesting idea and I wanted to see where it would go. I still think it's an idea worth looking into, though I will concede (and have from the beginning) that I have no idea whether it is actually true or not.

Plus I am doing a bunch of looooooong compiles at work today and am very bored which means I am in an argumentative mood. I'd argue that black is white right now if I thought the argument might be interesting:D
Well depending where you are in the universe, black and white can be exactly the same.
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

Grammatron wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote: Disagree. At most, it boils down to current tensions and how a book which seems to point the finger at the entity responsible for the current tension, might sell well.
If they generally beleive it, it doesn't matter why. It's still woo-woo. If they don't believe it, and it sells well anyway (maybe they just bought it because they were curious, or any of a variety of other reasons I can think of) THEN I would concede that it is purely being pissed off at the current state of relations between our countries.
Thanks.

If I understand you correctly, you have no idea why the book was bought.

In which case using the bestseller status as some sort of indictment doesn't hold much water, does it?
Nope. But if you go all the way back to when the subject was first brought up I said that I didn't pay it all that much heed to begin with. But since the idea that Europeans might merely shift their woo-woo tendencies to area other than religion was brought to the table by Luke, I threw it in as one more piece of fodder for that idea. It was an interesting idea and I wanted to see where it would go. I still think it's an idea worth looking into, though I will concede (and have from the beginning) that I have no idea whether it is actually true or not.

Plus I am doing a bunch of looooooong compiles at work today and am very bored which means I am in an argumentative mood. I'd argue that black is white right now if I thought the argument might be interesting:D
Well depending where you are in the universe, black and white can be exactly the same.
If you're blind there is absolutely no difference.

We need Ian here, since I know he can and will expound on great length on whether color exists independently of the mind or not.
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Post by Grammatron »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
If you're blind there is absolutely no difference.

We need Ian here, since I know he can and will expound on great length on whether color exists independently of the mind or not.
I need to read outside Poltics forum more I guess since I can't "see" how color exists independtly of the mind or what that means to be begin with.
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Post by Doctor X »

Must-resist-answering-that-question. . ..

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
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Nyarlathotep
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

Grammatron wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
If you're blind there is absolutely no difference.

We need Ian here, since I know he can and will expound on great length on whether color exists independently of the mind or not.
I need to read outside Poltics forum more I guess since I can't "see" how color exists independtly of the mind or what that means to be begin with.
I don't know either, but I do seem to recall an umpteen bajillion page thread on that very subject at TOP with Ian as one of the main participants. Though I honestly can't recall which side of the argument he even came down on.
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Post by Grammatron »

Doctor X wrote:Must-resist-answering-that-question. . ..

--J.D.
You know you want to...
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Post by Jeff »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
If you're blind there is absolutely no difference.

We need Ian here, since I know he can and will expound on great length on whether color exists independently of the mind or not.
I need to read outside Poltics forum more I guess since I can't "see" how color exists independtly of the mind or what that means to be begin with.
I don't know either, but I do seem to recall an umpteen bajillion page thread on that very subject at TOP with Ian as one of the main participants. Though I honestly can't recall which side of the argument he even came down on.
I can. Ian professed that colo(u)r was entirely illusionary. Others posted that color was the response of three different cones in the retina to wavelengths corresponding to red, green and blue.
Then he said it was an illusion, again. And again.
Wot a twat.
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Post by Doctor X »

Was he really a twat or was that just an illusion?

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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Post by Luke T. »

Well, this topic sat idle for days after my last post and seems to have taken off now. I'd like to answer a question addressed to my last post.
DanishDynamite wrote:
Luke T. wrote:
For instance, while Europeans may not be religious, how are they on all things relating to critical thinking? I seem to recall a large percentage of Germans believing the CIA and the Jews blew up the World Trade Center by remote control.
What?! Would you have a link? And I'm curious to see what you mean by a "large percentage".
These supposed exposés have been successful with the public. Wisnewski was permitted to bring his psychic speculations to the public in the form of a film broadcast on the German television network WDR. Bülow's book climbed to the number 3 slot on the SPIEGEL bestseller list within a few weeks, and more than 100,000 copies of Bröcker's first conspiracy book have been published, making it the biggest sales coup in years for publishing house Zweitausendeins Verlag. The sequel has been available since July and is also expected to be very profitable.
The results of a Forsa survey conducted in April also indicate that this "running amok of an unbound constructivist fantasy" (Neue Zürcher Zeitung) has become a true peoples' sport in Germany. According to the survey, one-fifth of all Germans now believe "that the US government could have ordered the attacks of September 11th itself." 29% of respondents in the eastern portion of Germany and as much as 31% of Germans under 30 believe this statement.
Der Spiegel
Three books, all by German authors currently topping the German bestseller list, are conspiracy theory accounts about 9/11. Perhaps the most famous of the bunch is written by Andreas von Bülow entitled The CIA and September 11 (photo). A former government minister of Research and Technology, von Bülow suggests that U.S. and Israeli intelligence services blew up the World Trade Center from the inside and that the two planes were flown in by remote control.
Deutsche Welle
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Grammatron wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote:
Grammatron wrote:French woo-wooism.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Gepan-Sepra.htm
Could you elaborate on where the wooism is in this link?
Like this?
"In 60% of the cases reported here, the description of this phenomenon is apparently one of a flying machine whose origin, modes of lifting and/or propulsion are totally outside our knowledge."
Sorry, thats the opinion of some employee at this institute. How does it relate to the woo-wooism of the French in general?
Uhm it's a government-funded project from taxes collected from the French people?
Uhm, what does this have to do with anything? The US Patent Office is a government funded project. It has granted patents on "free energy" machines. Can we conclude that large parts of the US population is woo-woo from this fact?
And it's the only one of its kind in the developed world. Seems like it relates rather well.
Seems like you are grasping at imaginary straws.
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote: Disagree. At most, it boils down to current tensions and how a book which seems to point the finger at the entity responsible for the current tension, might sell well.
If they generally beleive it, it doesn't matter why. It's still woo-woo. If they don't believe it, and it sells well anyway (maybe they just bought it because they were curious, or any of a variety of other reasons I can think of) THEN I would concede that it is purely being pissed off at the current state of relations between our countries.
Thanks.

If I understand you correctly, you have no idea why the book was bought.

In which case using the bestseller status as some sort of indictment doesn't hold much water, does it?
Nope. But if you go all the way back to when the subject was first brought up I said that I didn't pay it all that much heed to begin with. But since the idea that Europeans might merely shift their woo-woo tendencies to area other than religion was brought to the table by Luke, I threw it in as one more piece of fodder for that idea. It was an interesting idea and I wanted to see where it would go. I still think it's an idea worth looking into, though I will concede (and have from the beginning) that I have no idea whether it is actually true or not.

Plus I am doing a bunch of looooooong compiles at work today and am very bored which means I am in an argumentative mood. I'd argue that black is white right now if I thought the argument might be interesting:D
I know exactly how you feel. I get combatative too when I'm bored, drunk or similar. :)
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Doctor X
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Post by Doctor X »

To Ye FOOLS I am Crushing in the Iron Grip of Logic:

I shall be travling for some time. Therefore, I can conclude myself the winner of all debates and conflicts.

Those who disagree will have their country "liberated." Kindly try to have some useful resource like oil or wine or anything more interesting than unpronouncible names and a school of quantum mechanics.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Luke T. wrote:Well, this topic sat idle for days after my last post and seems to have taken off now. I'd like to answer a question addressed to my last post.
DanishDynamite wrote:
Luke T. wrote:
For instance, while Europeans may not be religious, how are they on all things relating to critical thinking? I seem to recall a large percentage of Germans believing the CIA and the Jews blew up the World Trade Center by remote control.
What?! Would you have a link? And I'm curious to see what you mean by a "large percentage".
These supposed exposés have been successful with the public. Wisnewski was permitted to bring his psychic speculations to the public in the form of a film broadcast on the German television network WDR. Bülow's book climbed to the number 3 slot on the SPIEGEL bestseller list within a few weeks, and more than 100,000 copies of Bröcker's first conspiracy book have been published, making it the biggest sales coup in years for publishing house Zweitausendeins Verlag. The sequel has been available since July and is also expected to be very profitable.
The results of a Forsa survey conducted in April also indicate that this "running amok of an unbound constructivist fantasy" (Neue Zürcher Zeitung) has become a true peoples' sport in Germany. According to the survey, one-fifth of all Germans now believe "that the US government could have ordered the attacks of September 11th itself." 29% of respondents in the eastern portion of Germany and as much as 31% of Germans under 30 believe this statement.
Der Spiegel
Three books, all by German authors currently topping the German bestseller list, are conspiracy theory accounts about 9/11. Perhaps the most famous of the bunch is written by Andreas von Bülow entitled The CIA and September 11 (photo). A former government minister of Research and Technology, von Bülow suggests that U.S. and Israeli intelligence services blew up the World Trade Center from the inside and that the two planes were flown in by remote control.
Deutsche Welle
Thanks, Luke.

I've tried to research the exact questions of the Forsa poll in question, but was unable to gather any further info. My problem was that I would immediately answer "yes" if asked whether "the US government could have ordered the attacks of September 11th itself." Yes, they could have. There is after all nothing physically impossible for this to have occured. It just isn't plausable.

As regards your poll, as I said upstream I have been unable to gather further info on the exact wording of this poll. Hence, let us for the moment assume that the question was not only unambigious but that the poll was representative as well.

This would mean that 80% of the German population thought such a conspiracy was bollocks. Not very erath shattering in my mind.

BTW, I found this interesting poll done in the US:

http://edition.cnn.com/US/9706/15/ufo.poll/

An excerpt:
Nearly 50 years since an alleged UFO was sighted at Roswell, New Mexico, a new CNN/Time poll released Sunday shows that 80 percent of Americans think the government is hiding knowledge of the existence of extraterrestrial life forms.
:lol:

But lets not stop there. From the same poll:
Sixty-four percent of the respondents said that aliens have contacted humans, half said they've abducted humans.
:lol:
Last edited by DanishDynamite on Sat Aug 14, 2004 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Doctor X wrote:To Ye FOOLS I am Crushing in the Iron Grip of Logic:

I shall be travling for some time.
Praise the lord. Finally the noise level will drop. :)
Therefore, I can conclude myself the winner of all debates and conflicts.
The conslusion I'm afraid doesn't follow.
Those who disagree will have their country "liberated." Kindly try to have some useful resource like oil or wine or anything more interesting than unpronouncible names and a school of quantum mechanics.
We have a saying in this country: "Empty barrels make the most noise".

I suspect even you can understand it. :)