Religiousity in the US vs. Religiousityin Europe

Hot topics in delusion and rationalization.
Nyarlathotep
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

DanishDynamite wrote: You claim that the French bestseller status of a book on some conspiracy theory concerning Americans behind 9/11 shows evidence of woo-wooness in the French.
I see that you and Grammatron, have been hard at work while I was out to lunch. :D

Rather than bring this back to the point where I left off, I'll just say that Grammaton POV is pretty consistant with mine in this case.

Now, about the above statement if you are going to claim there are no French woo-woos I am going to call bullshit on you here and now. If that is not what youa re trying to say, then the popularity of the books shows that there is a market for woo-woo conspiracy theories among the French. And as I said, by itself, that means nothing, but if you can show that such such things are consistantly popular (and beleived) over there, then you could argue that the French,a t least, are as woo-woo about politics as we are about Religion.
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Grammatron
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Post by Grammatron »

Doctor X wrote:
Screw them and let's get back to the topic of how wrong Danish is.
Do not be bitter that you lost their team . . . that then won superbowls in St. Louis . . . only to be crushed by the Patriots. . . .

Besides, discussing why Danish is wrong is just not challenging.

--J.D.
That's what those Raiders and Rams get for leaving LA. That was just stupid dumb.
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Doctor X
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Post by Doctor X »

Sad, Sad, LA Fan: [Grammatron--Ed.]

Years ago, I was visiting a friend when the "Faders" were still in LA and the "Flats" had yet to discover they were not playing badmitton. They met for what was called the "Stuper Bowl"--the "winner" would have the worse record in the league.

The "Flats" "won". . . . The "Faders" tried really, really hard to "win" but the "Flats" were far more incompetent.

Claus Lover: [Danish--Ed.]
OK. I think I'm beginning to understand.

When you say a university "offered" certain grades, you mean they required certain grades. Am I right so far?
Yes. Apparently miracles do happen.
I'm don't understand how a university could do so, though. I thought they just took in the top of the crop for a given year.
These offers were made before students would sit for their exams.

As for fascism and "woo wooism," I would contend that fascism requires a particular defect in critical thinking.

--J.D.
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote: You claim that the French bestseller status of a book on some conspiracy theory concerning Americans behind 9/11 shows evidence of woo-wooness in the French.
I see that you and Grammatron, have been hard at work while I was out to lunch. :D
"Out to lunch"! (If I were mean I would say that this pretty much covers your position. Luckily, I'm not :))
Rather than bring this back to the point where I left off, I'll just say that Grammaton POV is pretty consistant with mine in this case.
Cool.
Now, about the above statement if you are going to claim there are no French woo-woos I am going to call bullshit on you here and now.
Fine.

But how could you possibly deduce such a statement from what I wrote?
If that is not what youa re trying to say, then the popularity of the books shows that there is a market for woo-woo conspiracy theories among the French.
No it doesn't. It shows that there is a market for books which appear to heap shit on an ally who no longer acts as an ally.
And as I said, by itself, that means nothing, but if you can show that such such things are consistantly popular (and beleived) over there, then you could argue that the French,a t least, are as woo-woo about politics as we are about Religion.
I suppose. Actually, no I don't suppose. I really don't so the clear connection between how well a book sells and woo-wooness of a population. Who knows why people buy the books they do?
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Irrelevant sports crap deleted
:)
Claus Lover: [Danish--Ed.]
OK. I think I'm beginning to understand.

When you say a university "offered" certain grades, you mean they required certain grades. Am I right so far?
Yes. Apparently miracles do happen.
No. A miracle would be if you could explain your position coherently.
I'm don't understand how a university could do so, though. I thought they just took in the top of the crop for a given year.
These offers were made before students would sit for their exams.
Are you saying that the universities have knowledge of student's grades and courses so far, before the students are subjected to some type of final exam? And that they then negotiate individually with each student before he sits for this exam? Good grief!
As for fascism and "woo wooism," I would contend that fascism requires a particular defect in critical thinking.
Your contention is noted. Perhaps at some point you will define woo-wooism and what is has to do with political leanings.
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Doctor X
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Post by Doctor X »

TeutonicTNT:

Just because your teams never won a Superbowl. . . .
No. A miracle would be if you could explain your position coherently.
Evidence?
Are you saying that the universities have knowledge of student's grades and courses so far, before the students are subjected to some type of final exam? And that they then negotiate individually with each student before he sits for this exam? Good grief!
I probably should defer to a Brit who has gone through the process recently. However, yes. I gather it is a good incentive to study for those exams!
Your contention is noted. Perhaps at some point you will define woo-wooism and what is has to do with political leanings.
It may be hard to in terms you would understand . . . I like polysyllables.

Anyways, more seriously, "woo wooism" requires a selective view of "evidence"--"cherry picking" events that support a belief system while downplaying any that does not. Seems to me fascists do the same.

Of course, I suppose I need to have your definition of "fascist."

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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Doctor X
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Post by Doctor X »

I should add that those are national exams, so it is not like the student can go to his teacher and beg for a grade so he can get into a particular university.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Doctor X wrote:TeutonicTNT:

Just because your teams never won a Superbowl. . . .
Sorry? Superbowl? I'm guessing this is some kind of giant get-together of bowlers across the US?
No. A miracle would be if you could explain your position coherently.
Evidence?
See upstream. :)
Are you saying that the universities have knowledge of student's grades and courses so far, before the students are subjected to some type of final exam? And that they then negotiate individually with each student before he sits for this exam? Good grief!
I probably should defer to a Brit who has gone through the process recently. However, yes. I gather it is a good incentive to study for those exams!
Just don't see the point, I'm afraid.

Let the students sit for this exam. Let them subsequently apply for admission to the universities of their choice. Each student should rank the top three universities.

Let each university choose the top students who selected their university as the top choice. If their quota hasen't been filled, select the top students from those who ranked their university as second. And so on.

Easy. And no weird interviewing of individual students.
Your contention is noted. Perhaps at some point you will define woo-wooism and what is has to do with political leanings.
It may be hard to in terms you would understand . . . I like polysyllables.
I like sentences and viewpoints which are clearly expressed. :)
Anyways, more seriously, "woo wooism" requires a selective view of "evidence"--"cherry picking" events that support a belief system while downplaying any that does not. Seems to me fascists do the same.

Of course, I suppose I need to have your definition of "fascist."
Seems to me that most politicians perform cherry picking.

As for my definition of facist, I'll accept whatever definition wikipedia provides.
Nyarlathotep
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

DanishDynamite wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote: Now, about the above statement if you are going to claim there are no French woo-woos I am going to call bullshit on you here and now.
Fine.

But how could you possibly deduce such a statement from what I wrote?
That's how your statement read to me. I don't know what else to say.
DanishDynamite wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote: If that is not what youa re trying to say, then the popularity of the books shows that there is a market for woo-woo conspiracy theories among the French.
No it doesn't. It shows that there is a market for books which appear to heap shit on an ally who no longer acts as an ally.
And as I said, by itself, that means nothing, but if you can show that such such things are consistantly popular (and beleived) over there, then you could argue that the French,a t least, are as woo-woo about politics as we are about Religion.
I suppose. Actually, no I don't suppose. I really don't so the clear connection between how well a book sells and woo-wooness of a population. Who knows why people buy the books they do?
Granted, the "heaping shit on a former ally" theory is a viable alternative. I guess it really boils down to how much of the population really belives that sort of thing.
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Anyway, we seem to be straying significantly from the thread topic.

I guess the theories provided by the link I provided will have to do.

Irritating how a question like this is apparently unequivocally unsoluble by the so called "social scientists".

[Edited to add a very significant "un"]
Last edited by DanishDynamite on Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote: Now, about the above statement if you are going to claim there are no French woo-woos I am going to call bullshit on you here and now.
Fine.

But how could you possibly deduce such a statement from what I wrote?
That's how your statement read to me. I don't know what else to say.
OK. I'm having a hard time understanding how your interpretation of no French woo-woos could posibbly surmised from what I've said.

There are lots of French woo-woos.
DanishDynamite wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote: If that is not what youa re trying to say, then the popularity of the books shows that there is a market for woo-woo conspiracy theories among the French.
No it doesn't. It shows that there is a market for books which appear to heap shit on an ally who no longer acts as an ally.
And as I said, by itself, that means nothing, but if you can show that such such things are consistantly popular (and beleived) over there, then you could argue that the French,a t least, are as woo-woo about politics as we are about Religion.
I suppose. Actually, no I don't suppose. I really don't so the clear connection between how well a book sells and woo-wooness of a population. Who knows why people buy the books they do?
Granted, the "heaping shit on a former ally" theory is a viable alternative. I guess it really boils down to how much of the population really belives that sort of thing.
Disagree. At most, it boils down to current tensions and how a book which seems to point the finger at the entity responsible for the current tension, might sell well.
Nyarlathotep
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

DanishDynamite wrote:Anyway, we seem to be straying significantly from the thread topic.

I guess the theories provided by the link I provided will have to do.

Irritating how a question like this is apparently unequivocally soluble by the socalled "social scientists".
Unfortunately, when you deal with things like human motivations things are a lot fuzzier than they are in the hard sciences. One can explain with great certainty why the litmus paper turns blue in one substance and not in another. It is much iffier trying to explain why one group of people does one thing and another does something else.

That's life, unfortunately.
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Post by Grammatron »

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Post by Grammatron »

Grammatron wrote:French woo-wooism.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Gepan-Sepra.htm
Some quotes from the Times of London (one of the links on that site)
It is a unique department, the only permanent government- financed scientific project set up by a developed country to unravel fact from fiction in the debate about UFOs.
In an area that draws the deranged and the dreamers, this is a serious research programme. "We have shown that there is a category of events that are not part of the classical physical scheme of things," says Velasco. These may be a light, or an object moving across the sky on "an abnormal trajectory", sometimes noiselessly.
....
"Two hundred years ago, the French Academy of Science said meteorites did not fall to Earth, that the phenomenon did not exist," he says. "Now we know it does."
Last edited by Grammatron on Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Doctor X
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Post by Doctor X »

Well this is moving faster than I can probably keep up!

Maybe a separate thread on "woowooism and fascism?"

Of course for French "woowooism" you must not forget the Maginot Line or the popularity of Jerry Lewis. . . .

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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Grammatron
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Post by Grammatron »

Doctor X wrote:Well this is moving faster than I can probably keep up!

Maybe a separate thread on "woowooism and fascism?"

Of course for French "woowooism" you must not forget the Maginot Line or the popularity of Jerry Lewis. . . .

--J.D.
Jerry Lewis? Well that's just being crazy, like thinking mimes are artists.
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
DanishDynamite wrote:Anyway, we seem to be straying significantly from the thread topic.

I guess the theories provided by the link I provided will have to do.

Irritating how a question like this is apparently unequivocally soluble by the socalled "social scientists".
Unfortunately, when you deal with things like human motivations things are a lot fuzzier than they are in the hard sciences. One can explain with great certainty why the litmus paper turns blue in one substance and not in another. It is much iffier trying to explain why one group of people does one thing and another does something else.

That's life, unfortunately.
I agree that the social sciences are currently the least hard of the bunch.

Hope the neurologists will soon have the functioning of the human brain cracked.

[Unfortunately, I expect that my "soon" above won't materialize in my lifetime :( ]
Nyarlathotep
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

DanishDynamite wrote: Disagree. At most, it boils down to current tensions and how a book which seems to point the finger at the entity responsible for the current tension, might sell well.
If they generally beleive it, it doesn't matter why. It's still woo-woo. If they don't believe it, and it sells well anyway (maybe they just bought it because they were curious, or any of a variety of other reasons I can think of) THEN I would concede that it is purely being pissed off at the current state of relations between our countries.
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DanishDynamite
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Post by DanishDynamite »

Grammatron wrote:French woo-wooism.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Gepan-Sepra.htm
Could you elaborate on where the wooism is in this link?
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

Doctor X wrote:Well this is moving faster than I can probably keep up!

Maybe a separate thread on "woowooism and fascism?"

Of course for French "woowooism" you must not forget the Maginot Line or the popularity of Jerry Lewis. . . .

--J.D.
Good idea. Do it.