Free will

Hot topics in delusion and rationalization.
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slimshady2357
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Post by slimshady2357 »

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos wrote:I still don't understand what's supposed to happen between the instant when I have multiple possible free choices, and the next instant when I make a choice. What happened between those two instants?

~~ Paul
The fountain of creativity and spontaneity which is *you*, and which is inclined, but not necessitated, by genetics and environment, expressed it's nature.

Hope that clears it all up for you :D
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Post by hammegk »

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos wrote:I still don't understand what's supposed to happen between the instant when I have multiple possible free choices, and the next instant when I make a choice. What happened between those two instants?

~~ Paul
For the massless photons that are your interface with what-is, there is no next instant. At light speed, you could say distance does not exist and an electromagnetic wave we call a photon is everywhere in the universe, or that time does not exist and the boson particle we call a photon touches everything in the universe.

Cramer's advanced & retarded wave model is one way to look at it. And the 10**26 particles (or whatever) that are *you* do have a time arrow.
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Post by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos »

Thanks, guys, that doesn't clear it right up.

~~ Paul
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gentlehorse
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Post by gentlehorse »

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos wrote:I still don't understand what's supposed to happen between the instant when I have multiple possible free choices, and the next instant when I make a choice. What happened between those two instants?

~~ Paul
Well maybe the two instants are a planck time apart, in which case whatever happened "between those two instants" has no meaning.

(Just my way of saying, "I don't know.") :D
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Win
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Post by Win »

slimshady2357 wrote:
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos wrote:I still don't understand what's supposed to happen between the instant when I have multiple possible free choices, and the next instant when I make a choice. What happened between those two instants?

~~ Paul
The fountain of creativity and spontaneity which is *you*, and which is inclined, but not necessitated, by genetics and environment, expressed it's nature.

Hope that clears it all up for you :D
I think what you mean to say, following some French guy, is that the choices of said fountain, said *you*, are inclined not necessitated. The issue of identity, which you conflate, either through glibness or ignorance, is distinct.
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Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
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Post by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos »

Win wrote:I think what you mean to say, following some French guy, is that the choices of said fountain, said *you*, are inclined not necessitated. The issue of identity, which you conflate, either through glibness or ignorance, is distinct.
I have no idea what you just said.

Here's the problem. At one instant I have multiple choices; at the next instant I have made a choice. Consider the mechanism for making the choice. It cannot be deterministically algorithmic nor random nor stochastically algorithmic. If it was, it would not be free by any strong definition of the term. So there must be another mechanism. What is it? And whatever it is, what does it mean to have had a free choice the instant before making the specific choice?

~~ Paul
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rustypouch
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Post by rustypouch »

I think that Rush said all that is needed to be said about free will.
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Post by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos »

But was Rush exercising their free will when they chose free will?

~~ Paul
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Post by Beleth »

slimshady2357 wrote:
Beleth wrote: "There is no free will" is equivalent to "Everyone's future actions can be predicted with 100% certainty by an existing intelligence."
This is also very poorly worded, or you have a very strange definition of free will.
It is merely the logical opposite of my definition of the statement "I have free will." And there is nothing strange about my definition of free will. Maybe there is something strange about yours, but since I don't know it, I can't say for sure.
If we could show all choices I make are determined by physical laws,
This is a hypothetical I am not willing to entertain, since it is false under the set of physical laws we are currently aware of.
Do you think that, say, the randomness possibly involved in quantum events gives us free will?
No. Randomness is not free will any more than classical-physics determinism is.

And to anticipate your next question:
Q: Well then, what does give us free will?
A: I don't know.
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Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

Doctor Mabuse wrote:Why should the future be different from the past with regard to free will?
Because the future is different from the past with regard to everything.
The past was once the future, and the future will someday be the past.
Of course. I don't see what relevance this has.

I'm not sure where you are going with this. That the future is undetermined has everything to do with free will. Free will is inextricably connected to the fact that the future is uncertain.
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loki
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Post by loki »

"Your Free Will" = Expression of your identity. The defining property of Free Will is not mechanism, but ownership.
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