Catholic Teacher Fired for Having Baby Baptized Protestant

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Pyrrho
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Catholic Teacher Fired for Having Baby Baptized Protestant

Post by Pyrrho »

You think Jesus would have cared?

http://www.newsnet5.com/family/3405498/detail.html
Souza was dismissed as a teacher at St. Mary's School, where she taught for five years. She said that she was called into the office and told her contract would not be renewed.

"It was a shock. It was very disturbing, and I immediately started to cry," Souza said.

Souza's 6-year-old son, Ross, who attends St. Mary's, was not baptized Catholic, and church officials knew that when she was hired.
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RabbiSatan
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Post by RabbiSatan »

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
You think Jesus would have cared?
Pssstt!! Didn't you get the memo? It's not about whether Jesus cares or not, it's about how many converts you can get!
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Quester_X
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Post by Quester_X »

Humph. Poor woman. I hope she's able to get a good job somewhere else. My mom's a teacher, so I know how hard it is.
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Post by Cloverlief »

Quester_X wrote:Humph. Poor woman. I hope she's able to get a good job somewhere else. My mom's a teacher, so I know how hard it is.
Geez, come to Nevada, we are hard up for teachers! Never enough. Two things I can gaurantee there are not enough of in this state: Teachers and Nurses.
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Post by Quester_X »

Geez, come to Nevada, we are hard up for teachers! Never enough. Two things I can gaurantee there are not enough of in this state: Teachers and Nurses.
See, that's the problem. Texas is short on teachers too, but won't set aside any budget money for education. All the schools out here have to scramble and make do. Everybody wants more teachers, but no one in government is willing to pay for them. Drives me nuts, the irrationality of it all.
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Post by Doctor X »

Take all of those teachers learning them kids evilution and we will have enough!

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Post by ceo_esq »

This story doesn't make sense to me. There's a Catholic baptismal rite, of course, but no one gets baptized "as a Catholic" - only as a Christian. The Catholic Church fully accepts the validity of Protestant baptisms, which is why baptized Protestants who convert to Catholicism don't get re-baptized.

If the journalist had been aware of this not-very-obscure fact, he or she might have probed a little deeper to uncover the real story under the story. There must be a little more to it than the mere fact of a "Protestant" baptism, which the Catholic Church would presumably not consider to be any different than a "Catholic" baptism. At any rate, hopefully wiser heads at the diocese will prevail.
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Post by Marian »

ceo_esq wrote:There must be a little more to it than the mere fact of a "Protestant" baptism, which the Catholic Church would presumably not consider to be any different than a "Catholic" baptism. At any rate, hopefully wiser heads at the diocese will prevail.
Maybe, but maybe not (regarding there must be more to it).

If she was married in the Catholic church, one of the requirements of that marriage (and her faith) is to raise her children Catholic. So failure to do so violates the policy of the school (to uphold, etc).

Many Catholic schools have non-Catholic teachers. I attended a Catholic school (several actually), and had teachers who were not Catholic. It's not really a problem. However they do have to agree to basically uphold specific things. When I was in high school, for example (1986-1990) a gay teacher would have probably been fired if they revealed they were gay. And my friends and I were 99.9% sure one teacher was gay, since my gay (closeted, as students couldn't be gay either) ran into him somewhere. ;) They both just turned the other way and took off. You couldn't live with someone without being married, or if you did, it couldn't be known, or you could lose your job. I never saw the specifics of it, but it was basically a morality contract. And non-Catholic teachers could acknowledge that they were not Catholic, but could not discuss their faith at all. If any were agnostic or atheist, it was never known publically.

Anyway, the problem with the policy at that school is that I guarentee you that there are many Catholic teachers who have been divorced. The Catholic church does not allow remarriage after a divorce, unless there has been an annullment. However, in the United States in many parishes, they've been extremely lax about it. "Back in the day" as it were, such a person could attend mass, but would be denied the sacraments. If they dared to try to take communion, the priest would refuse. And I've seen a priest refuse communion when he knew the person was not eligible to recieve (mortal sin, non-Catholic, blah blah blah). So if they have a teacher who's divorced, and remarried without annualment...that would also violate that policy. And if they're not firing them, then she could potentially have a discrimination argument. Actually I'd bet that she could find a few things that don't 'uphold' among the instructors there.

But her best argument is what she said, she already had a child who was not baptized in the Catholic church. It wasn't a problem then, but suddenly it is now with the 2nd child? Either Ceo is correct and there's more to the story, or she might have grounds for action. Who knows maybe they'll argue that that was in the past, so they didn't do anything, but this was a specific action that occurred while she was a teacher. Who knows.

Anyway, there MIGHT be something more to it...but maybe not. :( She's a practicing Catholic who is not raising her children Catholic, which puts her in bad standing. Ironically, if she were non-Catholic, she'd probably keep her job. :roll:
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Pyrrho
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Post by Pyrrho »

So, basically, a practicing Christian has been fired by a Christian school because the Christian's child had been baptized by a different Christian church...all too Christian, unfortunately, but that's the nature of religion.
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Post by ceo_esq »

Marian wrote:Maybe, but maybe not (regarding there must be more to it).

If she was married in the Catholic church, one of the requirements of that marriage (and her faith) is to raise her children Catholic. So failure to do so violates the policy of the school (to uphold, etc).
That occurred to me already, but if the school's argument is that there was a reasonable basis to believe she was not raising her children as Catholics (thus violating her commitment), then that's already adding a somewhat different angle to the story, because the reporter gave the impression that it was the mere fact of the "non-Catholic baptism" that was itself the problem.

Since the Catholic parent's commitment to educate one's children in the Catholic faith technically would not come into play until sometime after a child's early infancy, it's difficult to conclude that an infant baptism in a Protestant church - without more - violates the commitment. It is just conceivable, however, that the baptism considered in conjunction with other acts or statements by the teacher might reasonably have been interpreted by the school as constituting the teacher's anticipatory repudiation of her commitment. But the story doesn't provide any real basis for making this determination, which is why I stick by what I said - there's something missing from this story required in order for it to make sense.
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Post by MLynn »

Pyrrho wrote:So, basically, a practicing Christian has been fired by a Christian school because the Christian's child had been baptized by a different Christian church...all too Christian, unfortunately, but that's the nature of religion.
Yeah, that seems to be it, if the article is legit. It reminds me of the semi-naughty thing I do as a Protestant when I have gone to Catholic worship services; I go up for communion. Supossedly, only baptized Catholics are "allowed" take communion, but I think any baptized Christian should be able to partake of the bread, so I just go up there; what they don't know isn't going to hurt me - or them.
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Post by Hexxenhammer »

MLynn wrote:Yeah, that seems to be it, if the article is legit. It reminds me of the semi-naughty thing I do as a Protestant when I have gone to Catholic worship services; I go up for communion. Supossedly, only baptized Catholics are "allowed" take communion, but I think any baptized Christian should be able to partake of the bread, so I just go up there; what they don't know isn't going to hurt me - or them.
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Post by thaiboxerken »

Those darn christians sure are a weird lot.
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MLynn
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Post by MLynn »

Hexxenhammer wrote:
MLynn wrote:Yeah, that seems to be it, if the article is legit. It reminds me of the semi-naughty thing I do as a Protestant when I have gone to Catholic worship services; I go up for communion. Supossedly, only baptized Catholics are "allowed" take communion, but I think any baptized Christian should be able to partake of the bread, so I just go up there; what they don't know isn't going to hurt me - or them.
:evil: :evil: INFIDEL! YOU WILL BURN IN HELL! HEATHEN! :evil: :evil:
Well, it is an experiment, that's for sure. :wink:
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Post by ceo_esq »

Two additional comments. First of all, in the interest of accuracy, let's note that the title of this thread is inaccurate, as are all the subsequent references to this teacher having been fired. She hasn't been fired. The story clearly states that her employer told her that her contract would not be renewed. There's a significant difference. For one thing, presumably the employer is entitled in its discretion not to renew the contract upon expiry regardless of whether the employee is in breach, so scrutinizing the contract is probably immaterial.

Second, even if the foregoing were not true, without a copy of the employment contract there's no way to determine on the basis of the handful of facts related in the story whether the teacher breached it. If she did breach it, then unless she suffered from some defect of consent at the time the contract was made, it's hard to see what the big deal is. The religious angle of this story is beginning to seem like so much window-dressing. Especially when you consider that a private religious school has the right to make personnel decisions based on conformity of conduct to religious standards (subject to very narrow Title VII exceptions), underneath all the religious hooplah I smell something very familiar: a garden-variety contract dispute.
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Post by Marian »

MLynn wrote: Supossedly, only baptized Catholics are "allowed" take communion, but I think any baptized Christian should be able to partake of the bread, so I just go up there; what they don't know isn't going to hurt me - or them.
That's slightly incorrect. Only Catholics who have had their sacrament of communion and are in good standing may partake of communion. Until you've recieved that sacrament in the Catholic church you're not supposed to.

Long story short on why other faiths may not partake (when it's generally not an issue in most Christian churches), is that Catholics believe in transubstantation; that the bread and wine literally becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ. For most other Christian churches, communion is merely symbolic. It is not symbolic in the Catholic Church, they believe it is literal.

That's why they don't allow others to partake, because it's not merely symbolic to Catholics, and that is why Catholics who have a mortal sin (and have not made a good confession) or are otherwise not in good standing with the church are not supposed to partake. (Because it's really Jeeeesus :lol: ).

How much of a shit fit is thrown varies depending on the parish. If non-catholics are in attendance for something (like a wedding) they'll usually announce it prior to communion that non-Catholics should not take communion. I've seen priests refuse to give communion when they were aware that the person was not in good standing (though again that varies not only parish to parish, but priest to priest too).

All more than you probably EVER wanted to know! ;)
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Post by Cloverlief »

Quester_X wrote:
Geez, come to Nevada, we are hard up for teachers! Never enough. Two things I can gaurantee there are not enough of in this state: Teachers and Nurses.
See, that's the problem. Texas is short on teachers too, but won't set aside any budget money for education. All the schools out here have to scramble and make do. Everybody wants more teachers, but no one in government is willing to pay for them. Drives me nuts, the irrationality of it all.
Well, that is also definitely an issue here. Many teachers have to work several jobs just to make ends meet. It is disgusting. Also, Nevada is notorious for low pay and high cost of living. It is a wonder we all don't have to work more than one job. [sigh]
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