Heathens' corner

Hot topics in delusion and rationalization.
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 28908
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Anaxagoras »

I sure have been seeing a lot of headlines recently about sex scandals or crimes involving "Men of God".

Let's see:

Everything to Know About the Pastor Bill Hybels Sexual-Misconduct Scandal (Prominent "megachurch" pastor)

Former Maine pastor charged with raping a child

Auckland pastor jailed for sexually abusing two girls, one while her mother was dying

Alabama evangelist Acton Bowen jailed in Hoover on child sex charges involving young boy

Carlsbad Pastor Sentenced to 15 Years for Child Molestation

Mobile pastor found guilty of rape and sex abuse of a child

The Auckland one is Australia, the rest are all in USA.

Probably not an exhaustive list either, just those on the first page of search results for "pastor" on Google news right now. The stories are all recent ones, within the last 3 days or so.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image

:twisted:
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

In fact my snarky post was a kind of comment about Anax's list of horrors.

I'm well aware of the fundamentalists' self-hate (let's call it that), it's a Medieval mindset and so there is a rich iconography. Yet I'm not so sure about your logic, "Jesus died for nothing" being literal and unironic – or only in the very bland sense that if humans weren't inveterate sinners dying to redeem that (one wonders how, of course) would just be pointless.

Yet this is true:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:I reckon you never had dealings with fundamentalists.
We don't have much of them around here – for now.

Image
User avatar
ed
Posts: 40112
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: G_D

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by ed »

What happens when the rules change?

One of the most telling sniff tests to me re religion is the fact that things that were bad and would result in damnation are now acceptable. The point is that sin is completely defined by people and therefore mutable.

viz
Thou shalt not kill
That is the clearest thing in the bible. Four words strung together as a declarative.

right.
They who have waged war in obedience to the divine command, or in conformity with His laws, have represented in their persons the public justice or the wisdom of government, and in this capacity have put to death wicked men; such persons have by no means violated the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill.
Augustine of Hippo
This space for let
User avatar
ed
Posts: 40112
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: G_D

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by ed »

Good News Translation
You must keep the day of rest, because it is sacred. Whoever does not keep it, but works on that day, is to be put to death.
I chose this translation because it is the "Good News" translation.
This space for let
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

↑ Coherence isn't exactly their strong part… :twisted:

From Wolinski, killed in the Charlie Hebdo attack:

Image

Top to bottom:
100 years secularity
1905 law (separation of state & church)
Neither god
Nor master (anarchist saying)
User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 28908
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Anaxagoras »

ed wrote:
Good News Translation
You must keep the day of rest, because it is sacred. Whoever does not keep it, but works on that day, is to be put to death.
I chose this translation because it is the "Good News" translation.
Indeed. There is a commandment to not kill, but also commandments to kill. (and only the most orthodox of Jews seem to care about that sabbath commandment anymore, and even they ignore the "put to death" part of it.)

Arguably, if you aren't putting people to death for the things the bible commands you to, aren't you defying God's commandment? :notsure:

To be sure, I'm happy that this isn't as common as it used to be, but it does show the malleability of what it means to be a "good" Christian or "good" Jew, or etc. Some Muslims apparently still take those parts of the Koran seriously. Eventually they will catch up.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 73503
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Doctor X »

Anaxagoras wrote:Indeed. There is a commandment to not kill, but also commandments to kill. (and only the most orthodox of Jews seem to care about that sabbath commandment anymore, and even they ignore the "put to death" part of it.)
There are older commandments to sacrifice your first born. Something to pull out いつ児童は詰まらないだよ。
Arguably, if you aren't putting people to death for the things the bible commands you to, aren't you defying God's commandment? :notsure:
YHWH condemns Saul for failing to kill every single human--man, woman, and child included--as part of his demanded mass-sacrifice or חרם.
To be sure, I'm happy that this isn't as common as it used to be, but it does show the malleability of what it means to be a "good" Christian or "good" Jew, or etc. Some Muslims apparently still take those parts of the Koran seriously. Eventually they will catch up.
I have had modern Christians argue with me that the ritual torture of an infant would be "good" if their god orders it.

Anything to save the myth, you see.

I excised a long meandering on the topic: "the Bible" does not represent one religion, one good, one culture, and certainly not one time. The individual texts result from the combination of a number of sources. Expecting them to agree is folly. Of course, for fundamentalists, this creates doubt.

The two idiots who at different times argued that the command to kill infants can be an objective "good" simply struggled to avoid such doubt. They could no longer argue "The Bible don't say THAT!!!" as I am sure you are aware.

This is why I "talk SPORTS!" because the same irrationality comes into play. Generally, I offend less by doing that. Despite a few extreme examples of "fanboys" Boston has not rounded up and executed MFY fans. St. Louis opened their stadium up to RS fans near the end of Game 4 of the 2004 WS. From your neck of the 森, there is odd documentary about Bobby "What?" Valentine by ESPN regarding his time in Japan. Ignore the Narcissistic Fat Head that is Valentine, the differences between Japanese and FREEDOM fans is hilarious.

Japanese fans are devoted. One of my favorite series I use to [Confirm his illiteracy.--Ed.] practice reading has a female character utterly devoted to Chiba Lotte Marines. She would be a "Stats-Head."

No.

When "Our Team" loses the equivalent of the ALCS, the announcers asks it devoted fans to congratulate the winning/rival team AND wish them the best of luck for the Japanese WS equivalent.

Could you imagine in Yankees stadium . . . "Let's all give a warm welcome to the Red Sox and hope they win the World Series?"

Perhaps that is the one difference between sports and religion: most sports fans, even "die hard" to "obnoxious," know it is a game. They also know that, yes, Their Team loses sometimes.

The religious?

--J.D.

P.S. Three of the Philadelphia TDs were illegal.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

↑ Re. devil, a nice picture from the Codex Gigas:

Image

Awesome trunks! :mrgreen:
User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 28908
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Anaxagoras »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Turns Out the “Boy Who Came Back From Heaven” Was in Ohio the Whole Time
Lowering the Bar (lawyer blog)

Synopsis: The boy (now grown up) is suing his dad (who wrote the book).
Too bad he came back.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 73503
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Doctor X »

Evidently he was despis'd and reject'd.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 23328
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Rob Lister »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:How To Judge People By What They Look Like
Unz Review

Synopsis: Positive review of new book with exactly that title.
...

But, as Dutton says in his book, the relevant research has been published in top psychology journals, such as Intelligence, Personality and Individual Differences and Evolutionary Psychological Science, as has his own research. This includes a study asserting that atheists tend to be less physically attractive and more likely to be left-handed than religious people and that they have objectively worse skin.

Dutton, ever the evolutionist, opines that this is because we have been selected to be religious over thousands of years of evolution. Hence, those who are atheists reflect mutant genes in the brain and people with mental mutations are more likely to have physical ones. This explains their asymmetrical features and asymmetrical brains, leading to left-handedness.

...
Emphasis added. :BigGrin3:
Intelligent people, he says, also have longer, less baby-like faces and longer noses.
Go ahead. You know you want to post that pic.
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image

:mrgreen:
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Or do you mean True AtheismTM only? :p
I don't know what that is. Some Murican sect? :mrgreen:

In my (naive) view, atheism is just "There are no gods." The rest is politics, philosophy, psychology, history, social action and so on. Contrary to the religions, nothing binding.

I will pray for you intercede in your favor:

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 28908
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Anaxagoras »

The latest episode of This American Life is called Heretics. It's about a preacher who was very successful, probably making millions of dollars a year in income, until he had a "crisis of faith" and started having some heretical ideas. He became a sort of pariah because of it. Went from having maybe 5000 congregants at his church every week to perhaps 200. He was formally declared a heretic by his former coreligionists. He clearly paid a very big social and financial cost.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/304/heretics

They made it into a Netflix movie called Come Sunday:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1690967/

Haven't seen the movie but I would recommend the podcast for those who listen to podcasts.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 73503
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Doctor X »

Tentacles?


I am asking for a friend.

--J.D.

P.S. I will look into it. I think I know of the case. Funny, the odd show I recommended from Ol' Blighty Rev. about an urban CofE reverend has issues and his wife, a solicitor, suggest, "maybe you should be an Atheist for a while?"

Then there is the older Yes, Prime Minister where Sir Humphrey explains the candidates for a bishopric. The "conservatives" are the "ones who still actually believe in a god."

If one really thinks about it, it is hard to believe in such things.

*Mounts Soapbox*

You see this with ruminations on, say, homosexuality. I will spare the whole ancient history on the subject, the biblical passages, blah . . . blah . . . and leave it that, for many in the misnomer "JudeoChristian Tradition" [Pat. Pending.--Ed.] it is an "abomination."

Awesome. Shall we move on?

But, wait, if Big Daddy made everyone, then he made "t3h gh3yz" so . . . how can that be "wrong?" This is why so many try to pretend "iz a CHOICE!" so they can attach blame. Whether "it is" or "is not"--not . . . that there is anything wrong with "it"--is another topic which I find, ultimately, irrelevant.

To such "iz a choyce!" types, I ask them "what" they like. "I likes Lolis!" "I likes fat chicks!" "I like Gram's Mom!" Et cetera.

I then ask them if they can "choose" to "like something different."

You can see where this mess takes you. Sincere people, thoughtful people, will wrestle with such problems and begin to ask questions.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image
User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 28908
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Anaxagoras »

Alas, no tentacles. But yeah, I thought it might interest you since you like to study the bible. He got into trouble it seems (at least in part) by actually studying the bible in a serious way and thinking for himself, not just taking the KJV as the final authoritative word on things. And some of that gets mentioned in the episode. This did not go over very well in the Pentacostal community.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 73503
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Doctor X »

It is a problem.

Honest [True Scottish--Ed.] biblical scholars know that you cannot sustain appeals to inerancy. They have known this for over a hundred years. Even those who wish to "believe" in "something," even, yes, Junior, have to accept issues such as contradictions, multi-authorship, and the development of religions. It is like being a physicist: you have to accept quantum and relativity. Unless you can come up with an alternative, the data leads where it leads.

Most religious "bible" schools will try to avoid such or sort of pretend it is not a "problem." I have a wonderful English resource which nicely demonstrates how Lk and Mt used Mk as a source along with Q. The author of which proclaims that "90%" of the texts are "certain" or "not controversial."

As utterly craptacular as me claiming that the Red Sox have won "90%" of all World Series. Rubbish, but the scholar clings to that because his very work refutes that. I have tons more. One scholar spent a book appealing to the "plain sense" of biblical texts. You can probably guess what "plain sense" means to him: what he WANTS them to mean despite all evidence to the contrary. There is no "plain sense." He knows, indeed he does, that he is simply trying to rehabilitate his comforting fairy tale when he knows better.

Fine.

What does it matter if such believe such things? If Cleveland thinks it has hope?

It damages other people when it promotes ignorance and tries to force others to embrace the same ignorance. As you know, if you contradict me, that could imply that there is a slight chance you are correct and I am wrong. Ridiculous! If I just stamp you out, or in more enlightened times, get enough people to pressure you to conform, my view "wins." So, In Japan, refuse to teach that WWII was a bit more than Evil US and Other Colonialists trying to prevent the Divine Empire from establishing a "Greater Asian Cooperation Zone." In :freedom: stamp out anyone who questions my views.

It cuts both ways. Irrational thinking really reduces to a hope for a heckler's veto. Yet such injures others. It robs them of their :freedom: [Stop that.--Ed.].

Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
http://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/che ... 099901387#

No need to poke fun, they do it themselves. :)
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Well… uh… harrumph!…

Image

:P
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
The church before Martin Luther's 95 theses (1516).
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 33078
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Heathens' corner

Post by Witness »

Image