World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

ed wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:42 pm
Not when it comes to a lawsuit and if the entity wants to declare bankruptcy. The accountants will be all over them and ownership of assets will be sorta important
Well, yes.

But the diocese is ruled (yes that it the correct official word) by the bishop, and the bishop is taking orders from his superior (yes that it the correct official word), and some other diocese or possibly the Vatican can buy the church if it is an important historical one. Then donate it back later.

However, the various diocese own a lot of income producing (and taxable) property of a secular nature that could go first.

One of the bigger landlords in NYC, by the way. But tenants are writing their rent check to some property management company not the Church, because the Church doesn't need to deal with the day to day details of running the business.

As it might be Leona Helmsley getting one of Donald Trump's outfits to run the Empire State Building for her.
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Witness
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness »

Not about sex, but I'll put it here:
Church investigated by charity watchdog over claims pastors pressured congregants into selling blood for donations

A scandal-hit church is being investigated by the charity watchdog over claims that pastors pressured young congregants into selling their blood for money to donate to the church.

The Charity Commission today announced that it had opened an inquiry into SPAC Nation, based in London, to probe financial and safeguarding concerns.

The commission, which describes the church as a charity set up to "advance Christianity" and that works particularly with young people, has ordered it to bank all cash while the investigation takes place.

The announcement comes after HuffPost UK reported allegations that some members of the church had been taking teenagers to donate blood for medical trials in a practice known as "bleeding for seed".

The publication reported that that some members go to donate blood and are paid up to £100 by medical trial companies. This money is then handed by the young people over to the church’s pastors.

The church, which denies the claims, has previously been praised by politicians for its work to tackle knife crime and gang violence.

However SPAC Nation was already embroiled in allegations that some of its pastors pressured young people to take out loans to donate to the church, revealed by a HuffPost UK investigation last month.

The commission said a case had been opened on SPAC Nation in April last year, and in November this year information received from the trustees "raised further concerns about the charity's financial controls, policy and procedures".

In a statement, it added: "Of immediate concern to the commission is that substantial amounts of charity money are held in cash.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/1 ... pressured/

Bleeding the flock, how ingenious.

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ed
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by ed »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:53 pm
ed wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:42 pm
Not when it comes to a lawsuit and if the entity wants to declare bankruptcy. The accountants will be all over them and ownership of assets will be sorta important
Well, yes.

But the diocese is ruled (yes that it the correct official word) by the bishop, and the bishop is taking orders from his superior (yes that it the correct official word), and some other diocese or possibly the Vatican can buy the church if it is an important historical one. Then donate it back later.

However, the various diocese own a lot of income producing (and taxable) property of a secular nature that could go first.

One of the bigger landlords in NYC, by the way. But tenants are writing their rent check to some property management company not the Church, because the Church doesn't need to deal with the day to day details of running the business.

As it might be Leona Helmsley getting one of Donald Trump's outfits to run the Empire State Building for her.
Sounds too loosy goosey.

The legal entity that gets sued (the diocese or even arch diocese) owns stuff. In a worst case scenario for them, it's all gone. If the Vatican owns property then I suspect that the accountants would be all over them too. If the Vatican is complicit in any way (paging Cardinal Law) then they will be part of the suit. There is too much money involved for any but the A team to be representing the complainants.

This could get very interesting.
About that stereo

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

If let us say, the Archdiocese of New York goes bankrupt and Saint Patrick's Cathedral has to be sold off, the Vatican is a distinct legal entity that could buy it. But of course it would not happen in the first place.
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Anaxagoras »

Pope lifts 'pontifical secret' rule in sex abuse cases
The Pope has declared that the rule of "pontifical secrecy" no longer applies to the sexual abuse of minors, in a bid to improve transparency in such cases.

The Church previously shrouded sexual abuse cases in secrecy, in what it said was an effort to protect the privacy of victims and reputations of the accused.

But new papal documents on Tuesday lifted restrictions on those who report abuse or say they have been victims.

Church leaders called for the rule's abolition at a February Vatican summit.

They said the lifting of the rule in such cases would improve transparency and the ability of the police and other civil legal authorities to request information from the Church.

Information in abuse cases should still be treated with "security, integrity and confidentiality", the Pope said in his announcement. He instructed Vatican officials to comply with civil laws and assist civil judicial authorities in investigating such cases.

The Pope also changed the Vatican's definition of child pornography, increasing the age of the subject from 14 or under to 18 or under.

Charles Scicluna, the Archbishop of Malta and the Vatican's most experienced sex abuse investigator, called the move an "epochal decision that removes obstacles and impediments", telling Vatican news that "the question of transparency now is being implemented at the highest level".
Whether this is a real reform or a PR move I leave to your judgment.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Update: Looks like ed's hypothetical question just got a little bit less hypothetical.

Catholic Church sex abuse victims are suing the pope
NY Post
New York clergy sex abuse victims are suing the pope — claiming in a landmark lawsuit filed Tuesday that he and the Vatican were aware that a significant number of priests were molesting children and kept it secret.

The class-action lawsuit, brought in Manhattan federal court by seven survivors who previously settled with the Catholic Dioceses in New York for “pennies on the dollar,” alleges sole defendant “the Holy See” acted negligently by instructing its bishops around the world to cover up cases of sexual abuse.

The Holy See has known for centuries that Catholic priests were using their positions and roles in Catholic parishes and schools to sexually molest children,” the suit charges.

...

“What we now know is that the Holy See through the Pope issued very specific rules and policies instructuring bishops to keep secret information about kids being sexually abused by priests,” Herman told The Post.

“Because of that policy, families were not warned, kids were exposed to pedophiles, pedophile priests, and molested. They specifically kept it secret,” he continued.

The Holy See — the governing body of the entire Roman Catholic Church — is led by the pope, and according to Time magazine is estimated to be worth up to $15 billion.

...

Earlier Tuesday, Pope Francis abolished the Vatican’s secrecy rules — giving legal authorities access to documents about sex abuse cases previously kept under high levels of confidentiality.

Herman said the timing of the Pope’s decision was “divine” and made it “crystal clear” that the shield of silence came from the top down.

...
Emphasis added. Finally someone putting on the line with no bullshit.

If the plaintiffs win, we will see if or how they can collect.
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ed
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by ed »

An a legal team will collect
About that stereo

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

My guess is an out of court settlement for an undisclosed amount, and we will never know exactly who paid it.
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

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Image

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

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Vatican office struggles to keep up with clergy abuse cases

VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican office responsible for processing clergy sex abuse complaints has seen a record 1,000 cases reported from around the world this year, including from countries it had not heard from before — suggesting that the worst may be yet to come in a crisis that has plagued the Roman Catholic Church.

Nearly two decades after the Vatican assumed responsibility for reviewing all cases of abuse, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is today overwhelmed, struggling with a skeleton staff that hasn’t grown at pace to meet the four-fold increase in the number of cases arriving in 2019 compared to a decade ago.

“I know cloning is against Catholic teaching, but if I could actually clone my officials and have them work three shifts a day or work seven days a week,” they might make the necessary headway, said Monsignor John Kennedy, the head of the congregation’s discipline section, which processes the cases.

“We’re effectively seeing a tsunami of cases at the moment, particularly from countries where we never heard from (before),” Kennedy said, referring to allegations of abuse that occurred for the most part years or decades ago. Argentina, Mexico, Chile, Italy and Poland have joined the U.S. among the countries with the most cases arriving at the congregation, known as the CDF.

Kennedy spoke to The Associated Press and allowed an AP photographer and video journalists into the CDF’s inner chambers -- the first time in the tribunal’s history that visual news media have been given access. Even the Vatican’s most secretive institution now feels the need to show some transparency as the church hierarchy seeks to rebuild trust with rank-and-file Catholics who have grown disillusioned with decades of clergy abuse and cover-up.

Pope Francis took a step toward showing greater transparency with his decision this week to abolish the so-called “pontifical secret” that governs the processing of abuse cases to increase cooperation with civil law enforcement.
https://apnews.com/6e99b1ddf64d5fd7ff85fe065d699e7b

:twisted:

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

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175 children abused by Mexican branch of Catholic Church: report

At least 175 children were sexually assaulted by priests belonging to an ultra-conservative Mexican branch of the Roman Catholic Church, according to an internal report published Saturday.

The founder of the Legionaries of Christ, Marcial Maciel, abused as many as 60 children, with a total of 33 priests or deacons acknowledged to have committed sexual assaults against minors since 1941, the document says.

The findings of the report — written by a commission created in June by the director general of the group, Eduardo Robles-Gil — spans from the group’s founding in 1941 until December 16, 2019.

...

Maciel, who died in 2008, was ordered to retire to a life of prayer and penitence by Pope Benedict XVI in 2006 after facing years of allegations that he had sexually abused boys and young men. He never faced his accusers.
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/12/175-ch ... ch-report/

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Interesting.

The Mexican national identity is tied up with the Roman Catholic Church.

Before the apparition of the Virgin of Guadalupe, it was Spaniards and natives with the Spaniards (other than a few priests) not enthusiastic to make the natives into Christians (which would have entailed treating them a little bit like human beings.)

After the apparition, it was strictly a question of different social classes of Mexicans.

Incidentally, when the Virgin appeared at Guadalupe she took on the appearance of a local mother deity. She was looking after them even before they even knew whose mother she properly was, you see.

Double incidentally, Mexico went through periods of serious anti-clericalism many times, and without being Communist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuti ... _in_Mexico
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

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Pastor sentenced to over 1,000 years for sex abuse

GADSDEN, Ala. (AP) — An Alabama youth evangelist was sentenced Friday to more than 1,000 years in prison after pleading guilty to multiple child-sex charges.

Al.com reports that a judge handed down the maximum sentence on every count to Paul Edward Acton Bowen. Bowen had pleaded guilty in Etowah County to 28 counts involving six boys between the ages of 13 and 16.

The 39-year-old Bowen faced charges that include sexual abuse, sodomy, enticing a child for sex and traveling to meet a child for sexual abuse. He still faces other charges in the Birmingham area.

Victims and family members wept as the judge slowly read out the maximum sentence and fine on every count, the newspaper reported.

The shackled minister apologized to his own family and victims in the courtroom.

“The shame and guilt I feel is overwhelming and has been for a long time,” he said. “My heart was never wanting to hurt anybody but my mind was not well.”

He had previously pleaded not guilty by reason of mental disorder.
https://apnews.com/db1b7637f6177029aa04885a6018c7c2

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

A Protestant.

See what happens when you don't have a big organization to protect you.
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Witness
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:01 am
A Protestant.

See what happens when you don't a a big organization to protect you.
Indeed, but even then:
Teenager, 19, kills 'paedophile priest who abused him' by ramming a crucifix down his throat and suffocating him in France
  • Alexandre V. attacked 91-year-old Catholic priest at his home in Agnetz, Oise
  • Roger Matassoli is accused of abusing the victim and his father
  • Alleged to have abused at least four boys from 1960-2000
  • Attacker has been charged with torture, murder and resisting arrest
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hroat.html

I'm sorry for the young dude, but the crucifix, wow!

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

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Disgraced former cardinal McCarrick gave more than $600,000 in church funds to powerful clerics, records show

Image

Starting in 2001, McCarrick sent checks totaling more than $600,000 to clerics in Rome and elsewhere, including Vatican bureaucrats, papal advisers and two popes, according to church ledgers and former church officials.

Several of the more than 100 recipients were directly involved in assessing misconduct claims against McCarrick, documents and interviews show. It was not until 2018 that McCarrick was removed from public ministry amid allegations of misconduct decades earlier with a 16-year-old altar boy, and this year he became the first cardinal known to be defrocked for sexual abuse.

The checks were drawn from a little-known account at the Archdiocese of Washington, where McCarrick began serving as archbishop in 2001. The "Archbishop's Special Fund" enabled him to raise money from wealthy Catholic donors and to spend it as he chose, with little oversight, according to the former officials.

McCarrick sent Pope John Paul II $90,000 from 2001 to 2005. Pope Benedict XVI received $291,000, most of it a single check for $250,000 in May 2005, a month after he was elevated to succeed the late John Paul.

Representatives of the former popes declined to comment or said they had no information about those specific checks. A former personal secretary to John Paul said donations to the pope were forwarded to the secretary of state, the second most powerful post at the Vatican. Experts cautioned that such gifts may also have been directed to papal charities.

A Vatican spokesman declined to comment. In statements, Vatican clerics who received checks described them as customary gifts among Catholic leaders during the Christmas season or as a gesture of appreciation for their service. They said the gifts from McCarrick were directed to charity or used for other proper purposes.

The gifts "never had any effect on the Cardinal's decision-making as an official of the Holy See," said a spokesman for Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, a high-ranking cleric who received $6,500 from McCarrick in the 2000s, the ledgers show.

The checks from McCarrick's fund add a new dimension to a scandal over how he rose to the highest levels of the U.S. Catholic Church and remained there despite complaints of misconduct that reached the Vatican as early as 2000. A Post investigation earlier this year found that another cleric, a McCarrick ally who was a bishop in West Virginia, also gave cash gifts to influential clergy in the United States and at the Vatican while facing allegations of sexual misconduct and financial abuses.
https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/w ... cords-show

German saying: Eine Hand wäscht die andere. (One hand washes the other one.)

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

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Prominent Jesuit Accused Of Abusing Boy More Than 1,000 Times
Church Militant ("Traditionalist" Roman Catholic site)
A priest with ties to Mother Teresa stands accused of sexually abusing underage boys for decades, one victim saying the abuse occurred more than 1,000 times.

Robert J. Goldberg filed suit in state court in California on Monday, alleging the late Fr. Donald J. McGuire sexually abused him "more than 1,000 times, in multiple states and countries," according to court documents.

McGuire, a Jesuit priest, died in 2017 during a 25-year federal prison sentence for molesting minors.

According to the lawsuit, Goldberg was 11 when he first met Fr. McGuire in 1970 in Chicago. The priest made an in-road with the boy's mother, and hired the boy as his personal assistant. When Fr. McGuire moved to California in 1976, Goldberg and his family followed along.

At times, the priest would share the boy's bed at the family home. Much of the alleged sexual abuse happened as Goldberg traveled with McGuire to spiritual retreats. The abuse included "sexual touching, oral copulation and anal penetration," the lawsuit states.

...
I note two interesting details. The connection with Mother Teresa and that the victim's name is Goldberg.

I'd love to have more back story on both those details.
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

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More details about the Legion of Christ here: https://apnews.com/e23d4e965a0b84cad18bef11d9b5d825


Pennsylvania Dioceses Offer $84 Million to More Than 500 Clergy Abuse Victims

Pennsylvania’s Roman Catholic dioceses have paid nearly $84 million to 564 victims of sexual abuse, a tally that’s sure to grow substantially in the new year as compensation fund administrators work through a backlog of claims, according to an Associated Press review.

Seven of the state’s eight dioceses launched victim compensation funds in the wake of a landmark grand jury report on sexual abuse by Catholic clergy. The funds were open to claims for a limited time this year. They are independently administered, though each diocese set its own rules on eligibility.

To date, the average payout across all seven dioceses has exceeded $148,000 — a fraction of what some adult victims of childhood abuse might have expected from a jury had they been permitted to take their claims to court. Under state law, victims of past abuse only have until age 30 to sue.
https://time.com/5755572/pennsylvania-d ... pensation/

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness »

Catholic Church Shields $2 Billion in Assets to Limit Abuse Payouts

Dioceses are aggressively moving and reclassifying holdings to shrink the value of their bankruptcy estates.

Image
Ownership of these churches in the Archdiocese of Santa Fe was transferred to the parishes. As a result, the churches are excluded from the bankruptcy estate available to clergy abuse victims.
Photographer: William LeGoullon for Bloomberg Businessweek
For most of the 20th century, the Catholic Church in the U.S. minimized the damage wrought by pedophile priests by covering up the abuse. When the bishop of the Davenport, Iowa, diocese was told in the mid-1950s that one of his priests was sexually abusing boys at a local YMCA, he kept it secret. “It is consoling to know that no general notoriety has arisen, and I pray none may result,” he wrote to a priest, capturing the strategy of the era.

Cover-ups worked when victims and their families could be intimidated or shamed into silence. But in the 1980s and ’90s, victims started filing civil lawsuits against the dioceses where the alleged incidents took place. Church leaders across the country kept these suits quiet by settling out of court and demanding nondisclosure agreements in return. Church leaders paid out about $750 million from the early ’80s through 2002, according to BishopAccountability.org, a nonprofit that tracks clergy sex abuse.

The veil of secrecy on these transactions was pierced when the Boston Globe published its investigations into church sex abuse in 2002, sparking public outrage at how clergy had protected their own. From 1950 to 2002, 4,392 priests were accused of abuse, according to a study by John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

The pace of lawsuits escalated as public awareness grew, and besieged church leaders looked to a new option: bankruptcy. When a church district that’s been sued files for Chapter 11 and then reaches a bankruptcy settlement, a percentage of its assets are divvied up by victims. Like Fortune 500 executives—and more recently the Sacklers, the family that owns OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma LP—church leaders see bankruptcy as an attractive solution because it provides a controlled process for settling a large number of lawsuits while holding on to as many assets as possible.

Another benefit is secrecy. Lawsuits and trials lead to testimony and publicity. Bankruptcy ensures a quieter mass settlement that forces an end to existing lawsuits and blocks new ones. “It provides a clean slate,” says Robert Kugler, a lawyer who represented abuse victims in the St. Paul and Minneapolis archdiocese. Dioceses have gone this route more than 20 times since 2004, when the Archdiocese of Portland, Ore., declared itself insolvent.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... se-victims

I was hoping they would be sued into the stone age. :x

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Cardinal: Spain faces ‘true emergency for our future’
Catholic Herald
Cardinal Cañizares' warning came ahead of the installation of a radically secularist new government

Spanish church leaders voiced concern for their country’s future after the government pledged to legalize euthanasia, secularize education and strip the church of “improper assets.”

...
Emphasis added. :BigGrin3:
“Spain faces a critical situation, a true emergency for our future,” Cardinal Antonio Cañizares Llovera of Valencia told Catholics in a pastoral letter. He asked that special prayers and Masses be said in Spain “as long as this uncertain future remains unclarified.”

The letter, dated January 4, was circulated just before Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez formally took office at the head of a coalition government, the first since Spain’s 1978 restoration of democracy. Sanchez had been caretaker prime minister since early 2019.

Cardinal Cañizares said his warnings were not “rhetoric or sterile drama,” but a call for the church to “testify to Christ in words and deeds” and help “build a new mentality and a new Spain.”

Another archbishop said he was asking Mary to “save Spain.”

...
Hey! At least he's asking Mary and not some generalissimo. :coolspecs:
...

The coalition parties’ agreement, described by some media as “fragile,” proposes legislation to allow “a dignified death and euthanasia” at public expense and a range of “feminist policies,” as well as further downgrading commemorations of Spain’s former dictator, General Francisco Franco.

...
Uh huh.

I admit that I myself don't like the idea of publicly funded euthanasia. Too prone to abuse. People can kill themselves easily enough without help from the state.

That said, it still doesn't make me nostalgic for ...

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