Education and Drugs

How can we expose more people to critical thinking?
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latinijral
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Education and Drugs

Post by latinijral »

Is enough the Education to teach children to not use drugs?
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LuxFerum
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Post by LuxFerum »

education=drugs.

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Nigel
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Post by Nigel »

You could go through the Scared Straight approach, and take kids on a tour through a drug rehab clinic, or a morgue, and let them see the results of drug abuse firsthand. Other than that, what else is there besides education?

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tamiO
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Re: Education and Drugs

Post by tamiO »

latinijral wrote:Is enough the Education to teach children to not use drugs?
The education that US public schools and government offers is flawed. When children experiment, they discover the lies and don't trust any of the information given.

Proper education about drugs is had through a search for the truth and learning about the truth with their parents. Of course, many parents are very scared of drugs or never tried them themselves and offer false information to their children based on their fears.

My kids know that the safest drug is marijuana, being non-addictive and no chance of overdose. The main danger is the smoking and the legal punishment. They know ecstacy is ok, but because it is illegal they will not know what they are really getting. If they were into it, I would buy them a testing kit. They have all tried drugs and have chosen not to use any. My daughter experimented heavily with alcohol, but nearly killed herself last month. She has learned a good lesson as did her friends. Alcohol is the biggest danger to young people, IMO.

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Quester_X
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Post by Quester_X »

My kids know that the safest drug is marijuana, being non-addictive and no chance of overdose.


I understand what you are trying to say here, but I would argue with the claim that marijuana isn't addictive. Any drug has the potential to be addictive, despite whether the addiction is physical or mental. A member of my family threw away years of his life smoking marijuana, a decision that everyone in my family has had to pay for. Although he tried multiple times to quit, he always went back to smoking it. At present, he has finally gotten cleaned up, and regrets wasting so much of his time. While marijuana is certainly not as dangerous as other drugs, it still is capable of ruining lives.
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tamiO
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Post by tamiO »

Quester_X wrote:
My kids know that the safest drug is marijuana, being non-addictive and no chance of overdose.


I understand what you are trying to say here, but I would argue with the claim that marijuana isn't addictive. Any drug has the potential to be addictive, despite whether the addiction is physical or mental. A member of my family threw away years of his life smoking marijuana, a decision that everyone in my family has had to pay for. Although he tried multiple times to quit, he always went back to smoking it. At present, he has finally gotten cleaned up, and regrets wasting so much of his time. While marijuana is certainly not as dangerous as other drugs, it still is capable of ruining lives.
If you don't mind sharing, how did he throw away years of his life? It's my opinion that people ruin their own lives and blame it on drugs. It's also been shown that teenagers can become lethargic if they use marijuana too often or regularly. This does not mean it's the marijuana's fault, it could be that teenagers have a lot to think about at that age and do a lot of sitting around anyway. If they become heavy slackers in life it may be their personality, not drugs.

There is also the concept of self medicating. For instance, someone who is depressed will find that marijuana helps. Once they get some SSRI's into their system, the craving for marijuana goes way down.

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tamiO
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Post by tamiO »

Quester_X wrote:
My kids know that the safest drug is marijuana, being non-addictive and no chance of overdose.


At present, he has finally gotten cleaned up,
This is a peeve of mine. Why is it you get cleaned up after stopping the use of some drugs but not others? If I quit coffee, did I clean up? Or did I just stop using coffee?

Clean up seems to imply something dirty was happening.

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Quester_X
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Post by Quester_X »

I'm not completely against the use of marijuana. It can be a positive good in some cases (ie medical situations). In answer to your question, he was initially a good student and a nice guy. Once he got hooked on marijuana, he changed drastically. Started skipping school, failing classes, and had endless legal troubles. Sacrificed everything, so that he could keep smoking. And he was angry. I've seen him punch holes in the walls, and it scared the hell out of me. There was more, lots more, but I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to share anything that he doesn't want the world to know.
Clean up seems to imply something dirty was happening.


Something dirty was happening. He was tearing my family apart. I know that it is personal prejudice, but to me, marijuana will always be linked to the years of emotional hell that we all had to go through.
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Denise
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Post by Denise »

I think the reason that anti drug education seems to be failing is because they only tell the bad side. They are not honest on how good drugs make people feel in the short term. They don't explain how many teens feel that drugs help them alleviate social anxiety by feeling on top of the world. That's why most people start doing drugs- to feel good, to get high- to feel like they are in control. Of course, drugs may give the illusion of such things, but it's just that- an illusion.

Often times, from my experience, they only show the extreme. Such as a man who flips out on acid and jumps off a building. They do not show the every day deteriation of heavy drug use and how long the spiral is. Many people can do drugs for months (especially young people) with no real ill effects if they use it recreationally. Eventually, it sucks most of these people into addiction. From my experience little of this is taught, so that many kids start doing drugs and realize that they did not jump off a building or believe they are Andy Gibb- a note to an anti drug movie I saw. Because they do drugs and things are ok, they mistrust what was told to them about drugs. I think drug education should be mostly tied to the same theories of sex education. The educaters should realize that most people will try drugs in their life time and sometimes "just say no" is not going to work. The drive for pleasure is strong, and many people will give into the pleasure for drugs just as they have sex.

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Geni
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Re: Education and Drugs

Post by Geni »

tamiO wrote:My kids know that the safest drug is marijuana, being non-addictive and no chance of overdose.
Anti-acids?

LostAngeles
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Post by LostAngeles »

An ex-boyfriend of mine's existence nearly revolved around marijuana. Telling him that smoking multiple times a day resulted in accusations of the teller being "anti-drug" and "buying into that propaganda bullsh-t". We went to WDW and we <i>had</i> to make magic brownies because he needed his high.

My best friend started smoking pot a few years ago. When my other best friend and I noted he was smoking an awful lot, we asked him outright how often he smoked. It was something like six times a day, some utterly ridiculous amount bordering on the ex up there. We told him it was way too much. He sat, thought about it and then agreed. He worked on cutting down and now it's a recreational, very occasional thing.

Marijuana can really go both ways in my experience, so you're both right.

Because I'm chock full of anectodes -

In my senior year psychology class, we did a section on drugs. As the teacher outlined exactly what they do to you, a few lightbulbs of horror went off over some students' heads.

Education on drugs and drug use needs to be open and honest, not this "weed supports terrorism and your neighbor's baby will drown and your friends will all hate you" crap. They may listen to Evanesence and Nickelback and Jessica Simpson, but the kids ain't dumb.

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Pyrrho
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Post by Pyrrho »

Whenever a person indulges in chronic self-destructive behavior, their actions affect people who care about them. Most of the time, these people will try many seemingly different things to keep the alcoholic dry, the drug addict clean, the depressed person alive, or the anorexic eating.

Many self-destructive people become dependent upon the resources of other people, because the self-destructive behavior occludes other priorities. Although many self-destructive individuals can and do continue to function by holding jobs and otherwise acting in seemingly functional ways, quite often they remain in a state of arrested emotional development, because they use the self-destructive behavior as a means of avoiding emotion, meaningful social contact, or stress.

There is also the aspect of genuine mental illness as a cause for self-destructive behavior. By resorting to self-medication by whatever means, the self-destructive individual does not obtain proper treatment for their underlying mental condition.

Typically, their interpersonal relationships are nothing short of disastrous. Family and friends are emotionally involved with the person and, most of the time, do not know how to properly deal with the self-destructive and often antisocial behaviors of the sick person. A lot of people drive themselves crazy trying to make sense of the other person's insanity. Eventually, all parties concerned become "dysfunctional", with all activities revolving around the illness. This dysfunction can only be overcome by the use of emotional detachment and a willingness to allow the sick person to suffer the consequences of their behavior. Many friends and family will often attempt to help the sick person to avoid or extricate themselves from the bad results of their self-destructive impulses. This has the effect of delaying, often indefinitely, the cumulative effects of frequent trouble, thus allowing the sick individual to avoid facing the reality of their situation, and perhaps never arriving at a point where they make a decision to end their self-destructive behavior. The longer this is delayed, the more traumatic is the "moment of truth".

Despite outside influences as expressed by the efforts of family and friends to dissuade the self-destructive person from what is perceived as an inevitably tragic course of behavior, change remains solely the decision and choice of the sick person. Even if genuinely addicted to a substance -- and physical addiction is documented fact for certain substances -- the sick person has to make a choice; either to continue the behavior, or to take steps to curtail or end the behavior.

Usually this requires psychological treatment. Some people are able to set aside certain behaviors without outside support, but few people are capable of such an act.

The notion that drugs are harmless is a mistaken notion. Among available means of self-destructive behavior, drugs -- including alcohol -- are probably the most convenient. Alcohol is probably the most commonly used drug, but even coffee can serve a self-destructive purpose.

What needs to be taught is not simply to "Say no to drugs", but to develop emotional skills useful in dealing with various life situations.

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Mr Manifesto
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Post by Mr Manifesto »

Pyrrho wrote:Whenever a person indulges in chronic self-destructive behavior, their actions affect people who care about them. Most of the time, these people will try many seemingly different things to keep the alcoholic dry, the drug addict clean, the depressed person alive, or the anorexic eating.

Many self-destructive people become dependent upon the resources of other people, because the self-destructive behavior occludes other priorities. Although many self-destructive individuals can and do continue to function by holding jobs and otherwise acting in seemingly functional ways, quite often they remain in a state of arrested emotional development, because they use the self-destructive behavior as a means of avoiding emotion, meaningful social contact, or stress.

There is also the aspect of genuine mental illness as a cause for self-destructive behavior. By resorting to self-medication by whatever means, the self-destructive individual does not obtain proper treatment for their underlying mental condition.

Typically, their interpersonal relationships are nothing short of disastrous. Family and friends are emotionally involved with the person and, most of the time, do not know how to properly deal with the self-destructive and often antisocial behaviors of the sick person. A lot of people drive themselves crazy trying to make sense of the other person's insanity. Eventually, all parties concerned become "dysfunctional", with all activities revolving around the illness. This dysfunction can only be overcome by the use of emotional detachment and a willingness to allow the sick person to suffer the consequences of their behavior. Many friends and family will often attempt to help the sick person to avoid or extricate themselves from the bad results of their self-destructive impulses. This has the effect of delaying, often indefinitely, the cumulative effects of frequent trouble, thus allowing the sick individual to avoid facing the reality of their situation, and perhaps never arriving at a point where they make a decision to end their self-destructive behavior. The longer this is delayed, the more traumatic is the "moment of truth".

Despite outside influences as expressed by the efforts of family and friends to dissuade the self-destructive person from what is perceived as an inevitably tragic course of behavior, change remains solely the decision and choice of the sick person. Even if genuinely addicted to a substance -- and physical addiction is documented fact for certain substances -- the sick person has to make a choice; either to continue the behavior, or to take steps to curtail or end the behavior.

Usually this requires psychological treatment. Some people are able to set aside certain behaviors without outside support, but few people are capable of such an act.

The notion that drugs are harmless is a mistaken notion. Among available means of self-destructive behavior, drugs -- including alcohol -- are probably the most convenient. Alcohol is probably the most commonly used drug, but even coffee can serve a self-destructive purpose.

What needs to be taught is not simply to "Say no to drugs", but to develop emotional skills useful in dealing with various life situations.
Gawd, I'm never going to be able to read all that, much less understand it. I'm off for a bong.
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tamiO
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Post by tamiO »

Pyrrho wrote:This dysfunction can only be overcome by the use of emotional detachment and a willingness to allow the sick person to suffer the consequences of their behavior. Many friends and family will often attempt to help the sick person to avoid or extricate themselves from the bad results of their self-destructive impulses.
Excellent post Pyrrho.

What do you think about the aspect of jail, heavy fines and losing voting rights, school grants, etc., does it help to have undue consequences to smoking pot?

To me, the scariest thing about pot is the unjust punishment.

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tamiO
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Post by tamiO »

LostAngeles wrote: When my other best friend and I noted he was smoking an awful lot, we asked him outright how often he smoked. It was something like six times a day, some utterly ridiculous amount bordering on the ex up there.
Did he really cut down drastically, or does he just keep it from you now. :D ;) I know people that don't get into getting high and they can be a real drag. You don't want to hurt their feelings and but they have no idea what the attraction and benefits are and will never understand. Best to keep that topic over there next to Celine Dion when I am around that person.

How many professional, successful people do you know that smoke pot 6 times a day? Hint: professional, successful people have a vested interest in avoiding jail, etc.

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Pyrrho
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Post by Pyrrho »

tamiO wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:This dysfunction can only be overcome by the use of emotional detachment and a willingness to allow the sick person to suffer the consequences of their behavior. Many friends and family will often attempt to help the sick person to avoid or extricate themselves from the bad results of their self-destructive impulses.
Excellent post Pyrrho.

What do you think about the aspect of jail, heavy fines and losing voting rights, school grants, etc., does it help to have undue consequences to smoking pot?

To me, the scariest thing about pot is the unjust punishment.
Personally, I think marijuana ought to be legalized and handled the same way the government handles alcohol. I think it's counterproductive to have severe penalties for "recreational ownership" of a minor amount of marijuana. That said, I think people who sell drugs illegally ought to be punished severely.

I have no sympathy for people who abuse alcohol, marijuana, or other substances, beyond sympathy for any suffering they endure if they happen to be addicted or otherwise compulsively dependent upon a given self-destructive behavior. I have zero sympathy for anyone who sells illegal drugs, whether it's marijuana or a Viagra knockoff.

Anyone who's out there "functioning" with impaired judgment because of the use of some drug may be risking my life or the lives of my family. I don't care much if someone wants to play Russian roulette with their neurons, but a lot of people who do that run around thinking they're just fine behind the wheel of a car, at the controls of amusement park rides, in the cockpit of an aircraft, and so on. That's the scariest part about marijuana/alcohol/cocaine/whatever. You only have to be a passenger once with someone who takes both hands off the wheel on a high-speed curve to light a joint to have that epiphany.

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Post by LostAngeles »

tamiO wrote:
LostAngeles wrote: When my other best friend and I noted he was smoking an awful lot, we asked him outright how often he smoked. It was something like six times a day, some utterly ridiculous amount bordering on the ex up there.
Did he really cut down drastically, or does he just keep it from you now. :D ;) I know people that don't get into getting high and they can be a real drag. You don't want to hurt their feelings and but they have no idea what the attraction and benefits are and will never understand. Best to keep that topic over there next to Celine Dion when I am around that person.
We trust that he cut down due to the reduction in times he entered the car with the smell of high school hanging about him.

Not all of us "straight-edge" folk are a real drag. I don't mind it when my friends smoke up in moderation, much like they don't mind when I drink in moderation. When you're getting high/drunk every night for the hell of it, that tends to be not a good thing.
How many professional, successful people do you know that smoke pot 6 times a day? Hint: professional, successful people have a vested interest in avoiding jail, etc.
Everyone I know who smokes pot now does it on an occasional recreational basis. It's the equivalent of sitting around and having a few beers, watching the game.

I'm with Pyhrro on this topic in general. There's nothing wrong with legal, regulated weed. (I say regulated because they can slap on those useless age limits.) People who go on bone cruises are just as dangerous as drunk drivers.

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tamiO
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Post by tamiO »

LostAngeles wrote: Everyone I know who smokes pot now does it on an occasional recreational basis. It's the equivalent of sitting around and having a few beers, watching the game.
People who go on bone cruises are just as dangerous as drunk drivers.
I have never heard the term bone cruises so I can't be sure if it's just as dangerous as someone who is over the legal limit for drinking.

I do know that getting high is not anything like having a few beers. I wouldn't want you to drive me home after you had a few beers, but I would if you had only smoked pot. (Assuming you are a good driver, normally.)

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tamiO
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Post by tamiO »

LostAngeles wrote:
tamiO wrote: I know people that don't get into getting high and they can be a real drag.
We trust that he cut down due to the reduction in times he entered the car with the smell of high school hanging about him.

Not all of us "straight-edge" folk are a real drag. I don't mind it when my friends smoke up in moderation, much like they don't mind when I drink in moderation. When you're getting high/drunk every night for the hell of it, that tends to be not a good thing.
I reread my post to you and it comes off as me implying you are a real drag. Sorry, I don't know you to know if you are a drag or not when the subject turns to pot. I do know people who are not into getting high, (They are allergic to it.) but don't agree that smoking pot turns you into an idiot. I can see that if you have never tried it and the only people that you know for sure smoke it are knock-offs you might buy the line that smoking pot makes you stupid. I know some of those people, as well.
LostAngeles wrote:
tamiO wrote: How many professional, successful people do you know that smoke pot 6 times a day? Hint: professional, successful people have a vested interest in avoiding jail, etc.
Everyone I know who smokes pot now does it on an occasional recreational basis.
Could it be true to say that as far as you know, the people who are open with you about smoking pot only use it on occassional recreation basis?

If people want to keep their use of marijuana from you, it's easy enough.

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Sorgoth
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Post by Sorgoth »

tamiO wrote:
I do know that getting high is not anything like having a few beers. I wouldn't want you to drive me home after you had a few beers, but I would if you had only smoked pot. (Assuming you are a good driver, normally.)
Okay, tamiO...While I'm for the legalization of pot, in pretty much every post you talk about it you deny any negative effect. People who are high are impaired. It's not a lie, it's not propaganda, to say they don't have all their wits about them. It does affect your mind; that's what it's supposed to do. I definitely wouldn't drive home with someone who is high, unless...no, I'd still take a cab. I mean, pot isn't nearly as dangerous at the government and schools like to say, but there are still effects that are dangerous to ignore.