Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

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Abdul Alhazred
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Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Note: This means "abstinence education" is just as bad.

Not sure I'm buying it, but it's interesting.

Different Decisions
Thomas Sowell
...

If banks try to act like they are real estate companies and hold on to a huge inventory of foreclosed homes, they are likely to lose money big time, as those homes deteriorate and cannot compete with homes marketed by real estate companies with far more experience and expertise in this field.

But if teachers fail to educate children, they don't lose one dime, no matter how much those children and the country lose by their failure. If the schools waste precious time indoctrinating children, instead of educating them, that's the children's problem and the country's problem, but not the teachers' problem.

Sex indoctrination is just one of innumerable "exciting" and "innovative" self-indulgences of the schools. There is no bottom line test of what these boondoggles cost the children or the country.

Incidentally, conservatives who think that schools should be teaching "abstinence" miss the point completely. The schools have no expertise to be teaching sex at all. We should be happy if they ever develop the competence to teach math and English, so that our children can hold their own in international tests given to children in other countries.

...
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

Meanwhile, there was a story on the Fox News Channel about schools that are using their time to indoctrinate kindergartners and fourth graders with politically correct attitudes about sex.
Because the best way to tell what goes on in sex education classes is to read stories on Fox News.

ABSOLUTE FAIL.

Teaching a fundamental issue of biology and topic on which there are commonly held factual misconceptions, is one of the more important functions of a school.

If some schools are "indoctrinating" rather than teaching, correct the curriculum, don't close the classroom door.

But generally speaking comprehensive sex education has demonstrably reduced teenage pregnancy and STD spread.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

gnome: OK to all but this bit:
But generally speaking comprehensive sex education has demonstrably reduced teenage pregnancy and STD spread.
Seriously, I have never heard this.

Not arguing just yet, but how about some evidences?
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

I'll see what I can do. I'm fairly certain I came across that info, but you're right, if I can't produce it I have to back off the claim.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by DrMatt »

A point of philosophy here.

Do we really need outcomes research to conclude that a factual form of sex education is a good idea?

Here's an alternate route to that conclusion:
Knowledge empowers people to make informed decisions. Spreading that knowledge is a valid government function because informed decisions are a prerequisite for democracy. People may not change their behavior as a result of understanding their decisions, but they will have had a chance to deliberate on the consequences.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by specious_reasons »

I don't understand why Sowell is highlighting sex-ed. His bias is towards no public education at all. Maybe he's trying to scare liberals into being suspicious about public schooling.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

DrMatt wrote:A point of philosophy here.

Do we really need outcomes research to conclude that a factual form of sex education is a good idea?
If they cannot even teach basic reading, how well will the sex ed lessons take?

You know the old joke about the high school football coach doing some unofficial sex ed? That is, in the bad old days before it was in the curriculum. Demonstrates how to use a condom by putting it on a cucumber.

Punchline: Gee whiz coach, I thought you were supposed to put it on your cock.
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by grayman »

Bad enough the students are sleeping with their teachers, but what if they're home-schooled as well?
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
DrMatt wrote:A point of philosophy here.

Do we really need outcomes research to conclude that a factual form of sex education is a good idea?
If they cannot even teach basic reading, how well will the sex ed lessons take?

You know the old joke about the high school football coach doing some unofficial sex ed? That is. in the bad old days before it was in the curriculum. Demonstrates how to use a condom by putting it on a cucumber.

Punchline: Gee whiz coach, I thought you were supposed to put it on your cock.
The answer is they can.

An interesting cycle:

Look at that failing public school. You're wasting tax money on that.

(cuts budget for schools)

Wow, look more failing schools, do we really need to be paying bad teachers that much?

(cuts budget for schools)

Holy crap the school system is shitty! Why do we even have public schools? Let's give the middle class the ability to send kids to private schools.

(cuts budget for schools and puts into vouchers)

ZOMG! These places are awful, let's shut them down completely.

And so on.

I am looking for something substantial regarding the effects of sex ed... just haven't quite gotten to it yet.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by specious_reasons »

Abdul Alhazred wrote: If they cannot even teach basic reading, how well will the sex ed lessons take?
You get your opinion on public schools from where? Reason, corplinx? Even the shitty public school in Louisiana could teach the kids basic reading skills.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

How basic is "basic"? I'm talking about functional literacy.

I don't know anything about Louisiana, but Chicago seems to be having problem with it.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

And the implication is that they should abandon the task?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

On the contrary. It shows they are doing it all wrong and should change from the ground up.

Still waiting for evidences on the other thing.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

Something I found that seems to work:

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/public ... ?task=view

I don't know much about the source, but they are careful to reference the name, date, and organization of published studies they refer to.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Clicked the link.

I fully agree "abstinence education" is bad.

But that's not evidences that "conventional" sex education is correlated with reduced teen pregnancy etc. There's certainly more of the bad stuff now than when sex education was first introduced, but that does not take into account who is actually getting the sex education.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

No the section on "Comprehensive Sex Education Has Been Proven Effective" is evidence for the reduced teen pregnancy and so forth.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by DrMatt »

Mathematics education in the public schools is bad because it indoctrinates kids to spend other people's money. And to calculate risks and thus have a lot of sex and drugs. And to assess the logic of arguments and thus reject God.

Civics education in the public schools is even worse. It indoctrinates kids in radical communist notions like separation of powers, checks and balances, and separation of state and church.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

DrMatt wrote:Civics education in the public schools is even worse. It indoctrinates kids in radical communist notions like separation of powers, checks and balances, and separation of state and church.
I seriously doubt that it really does that.

Unless things have greatly changed since I was in school.

I got all that stuff at home.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

I sure got it. Though how many kids are actually paying ATTENTION in civics class is a matter for discussion.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Anaxagoras »

When I was a kid we had a Health class in middle school.
Basic info about sex (mostly about the diseases you could get from it) and drugs (all the terrible things drugs did to you) was part of it. I would hardly call it "indoctrination," except in the sense of "it's dangerous, so you better not do it." I can't remember whether they mentioned that condoms can prevent disease.
It was only one class. I don't think it took away from my other education.
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