Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

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gnome
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:The way I see it, the issue is whether it is in the interests of society for schoolchildren to be taught about sex by Sargeant Schultz using a curriculum constructed by a committee of Colonel Klinks.
Is that an accurate description of how the curriculum is formed?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Perhaps I'm not quite right, and it's a committee of Sargeant Schultzes.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

I'm sure it quite varies by location--you could make the same argument about any school subject, why is sex education different to you? Basically it seems like an argument from ignorance. You don't know how it's done, so you assume it's done by bureaucratic trolls who wouldn't know how to go about it sanely.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Because being taught badly about sex is more harmful than being taught badly how to read.

It's not just keeping them ignorant, it's messing them up but good.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

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Do you have any credible evidence that sex education is being done badly as any kind of trend? I'll exclude "abstinence only" as a separate case study equivalent to not having sex ed.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

I must invoke the principle that the one making the outrageous claim bears the burden of proof.

You are either claiming that the education system is not utterly corrupt and incompetant from top to bottom including teacher training, or that sex education is somehow an exception.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

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I don't know about an exception to the quality of the rest of the school, but I DID present evidence that it has had some success with its intended goals.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Yeah OK, but that pretty weak stuff.

Better than "abstinence education", primarily because "abstinence education" fails to result in abstinence.

The sort of sex education bourgeois liberal parents give their own kids (without relying on government or other organized schools, and starting before school age) seems to me to be about right.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

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And if everyone had access to bourgeois liberal parents that might be good enough.

I too received the general gist from my parents before learning it in school. Once I got there it filled in details of biology (such as learning about chromosomes and developmental phases of a fetus), and the relative effectiveness of various forms of birth control against pregnancy and STDs.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

It just seems like you have a beef without being willing to take a close look at what you're objecting to--your opinion seems based entirely on general assessments of the quality of the school system nationally.

Reality is more granular than that. Would you be willing to examine your own residential school district's sex ed plan before voting against it locally? Or without looking, would you just assume it's as messed up as you believe the entire public school system to be?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Mentat »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:I must invoke the principle that the one making the outrageous claim bears the burden of proof.

You are either claiming that the education system is not utterly corrupt and incompetant from top to bottom including teacher training, or that sex education is somehow an exception.
The null hypothesis is not the claim that bears the burden of proof.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

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Also, from what I've seen, cultural distaste for education does way way way way way way more damage than the schools themselves. Anybody not aware of this should probably pay attention to it before continuing on.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Nyarlathotep »

Mentat wrote:Also, from what I've seen, cultural distaste for education does way way way way way way more damage than the schools themselves. Anybody not aware of this should probably pay attention to it before continuing on.

Yep, we live in a culture where education is pretty much considered a bad thing (it makes you an elitist, a nerd, a tool of Satan, etc). And until/unless that changes any attempts to improve education at the institutional level are doomed to fail.

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

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But keeping that culture in place helps ensure a steady stream of menial drones.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

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Nyarl:
You didn't answer the question...how did the rich get rich?

You should always teach the rules...not because everyone follows the rules, but because knowing the rules is indispensible. If you do not understand the rules, then you will not understand why and when they need to be broken.

If you do not understand the discrepency between the rules and real life, you cannot exploit that gap.

That is how the rich got rich, aside from those that inherited.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Nyarlathotep »

clarsct wrote:Nyarl:
You didn't answer the question...how did the rich get rich?
Lots of ways, its rather a broad question and I fail to see the relevance in any case.
clarsct wrote:You should always teach the rules...not because everyone follows the rules, but because knowing the rules is indispensible. If you do not understand the rules, then you will not understand why and when they need to be broken.

If you do not understand the discrepency between the rules and real life, you cannot exploit that gap.

That is how the rich got rich, aside from those that inherited.
The only rules there are are for the little people. Otherwise, they are a fiction. I don't see the utility in perpetuating the fiction.

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by gnome »

Back on this again...

Tentacled sock puppet Ny: "Not back on it, still on it!"

(sorry, couldn't resist the image :P )

but seriously,
That is the ultimate question though, isn't it... is learning these rules and ideals perpetuating a lie, or pushing back against those that would ensure it is a lie?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Gladiolus »

Why sex education in the public schools is bad.
"Sex education?" What about educaton period? Most public school teachers are unqualified affirmative admits and are protected by communist unions. Qualified teachers on the hand get mysteriously fired for no reason.

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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Gladiolus wrote:... Qualified teachers on the hand get mysteriously fired for no reason.
Hey! He's back.

I'm very glad you're back. I had a lot of fun with Luke and me whupping your ass.

I'm mighty skeptical about those mysterious teacher firings. Those folks have a union, you know.
Unjust teacher firings perhaps, but mysterious?

How about starting a new thread of the subject of mysterious teacher firing?
Not here where it's subject to digression back to the original point of the thread.

Thank you.
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Re: Why sex education in the public schools is bad.

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Hey, Gladiolas, have you seen Godsend's postings?
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