Religious Right pushing for "Separation of School and S

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the_ignored
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Religious Right pushing for "Separation of School and S

Post by the_ignored »

Here we go, a homeschool conference commences for Separation of School and State.

heh. What do you think would happen if someone told them that THOSE words (or any such implication) were never in the Constitution?

Marshall Fritz is president of the Fresno, Calif.-based Alliance for the Separation of School & State.

"When textbook and teacher contradict what mom and dad are teaching at home about human origins, purpose and destiny, it gives children the anti-education of today's typical 'public school,'" Fritz said in a statement.

WTF could "mom and dad" possibly know about human origins unless they'd studied anthropology? Of course, this is just referring to the fact that they don't want school to teach anything that contradicts Genesis.

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RedShift
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Re: Religious Right pushing for "Separation of School a

Post by RedShift »

WTF could "mom and dad" possibly know about human origins unless they'd studied anthropology?

Duh! They've read the Bible ....
Last edited by RedShift on Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pyrrho
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Post by Pyrrho »

I wonder what the honorarium for the speakers amounts to? Travel, room and board probably paid for, too...
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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Religious Right pushing for "Separation of School a

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Beg pardon. Among educated northeastern intellectuals like myself, no one gets a good education at public school without being a "de-facto home schooler".

I was a public school kid in NYC in the 1960s, at a time when that town was still said to have pretty good public schools.

Before I went to school, my parents read to me all the time, and also to themselves and each other. This made me want to read.

Had it not been for my mother's efforts I might be innocent of arithmetic today. That was the notorious era of "new math".

And it was my father who taught me about evolution and science generally by taking me to the museum of natural history and planetarium many times, as well as buying me books.

And several similar stories about other subjects.

And my father was no academic, he was a union boss. Also a big science-fiction fan of the sort who would go to cons when they were in town. Took me to one once. But also to see boxing matches.

And please note, that there was NO anti-evolution stuff going on or any such other visible fundie nonsense.

The NYC public schools in the 1960s were skating on their earlier reputation.

I believe they skate no more. Let alone in Kansas.

But get the salient point. A good education at a public school requires "de-facto home schooling".
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel »

More food for thought.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/edu ... 093.htm?1c
Few discussions about home schooling evoke as much emotion as the conflict between parents' desire to teach their children and the critics who say many parents cannot match the skills of college-educated teachers.

For many home-schooling parents, there is no choice. They have an inescapable biblical charge to ``raise up a child in the way he should go'' -- a charge no one else can fulfill.

``Children don't need schooling; they want to learn, and they know how to do it,'' said one home-schooling father in The Homeschooling Book of Answers, edited by Linda Dobson.
States are lowering the standards for parents who want to home-school at the same time the federal No Child Left Behind Act and state legislatures set new, strict guidelines for public education.
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RedShift
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Re: Religious Right pushing for "Separation of School a

Post by RedShift »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
But get the salient point. A good education at a public school requires "de-facto home schooling".

Getting a good education regardless of what school you go to usually requires you have parents who are interested in and encouraging of your education. I believe the evidence shows children who have that will likely do well at any school. I guess you could call that "de facto home schooling."

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Post by Loon »

On the bright side, those of us who care and all that (at least among those who have kids) will have kids who are way better educated than the general Biblischool populace. Our kids will get the best jobs and eventually rule the world.

I hope.
I guess there he chose to err on the side of more votes. -[size=75]Grammatron[/size]

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Pyrrho
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Post by Pyrrho »

Nigel wrote:More food for thought.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/edu ... 093.htm?1c
Few discussions about home schooling evoke as much emotion as the conflict between parents' desire to teach their children and the critics who say many parents cannot match the skills of college-educated teachers.

For many home-schooling parents, there is no choice. They have an inescapable biblical charge to ``raise up a child in the way he should go'' -- a charge no one else can fulfill.

``Children don't need schooling; they want to learn, and they know how to do it,'' said one home-schooling father in The Homeschooling Book of Answers, edited by Linda Dobson.
States are lowering the standards for parents who want to home-school at the same time the federal No Child Left Behind Act and state legislatures set new, strict guidelines for public education.
All well and good, but are the states coughing up any money for parents who home-school their kids? Let's get down to the core issue, here...if I home-school my kid, I want a rebate on my taxes.
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Post by Loon »

Pyrrho wrote:Let's get down to the core issue, here...if I home-school my kid, I want a rebate on my taxes.
But then should I get a rebate for not having any kids?
I guess there he chose to err on the side of more votes. -[size=75]Grammatron[/size]

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Post by exarch »

Loon wrote:On the bright side, those of us who care and all that (at least among those who have kids) will have kids who are way better educated than the general Biblischool populace. Our kids will get the best jobs and eventually rule the world.

I hope.
Unfortunately, those of us who were well educated by our parents, and who will one day educate their children well (if we ever have them) also know all about birth control. And many intelligent people are more interested in a carreer than in having kids (nothing wrong with that).

So you get loads of fundie-religious-right-voting-ignoramuses born in large fundie households where condoms and the pill are dirty words, and where mom spends her life in the kitchen, only leaving to pop out another kid. And they will all vote for the idiot who says he takes directions from god instead of for you, the intelligent guy with the good education promising to teach them about evolution. It cancels each other out, as it already has so far.
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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Religious Right pushing for "Separation of School a

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

RedShift wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
But get the salient point. A good education at a public school requires "de-facto home schooling".

Getting a good education regardless of what school you go to usually requires you have parents who are interested in and encouraging of your education. I believe the evidence shows children who have that will likely do well at any school. I guess you could call that "de facto home schooling."
So you say. But my maternal grandmother's parents were illiterate immigrants. They spoke no English, were illiterate in their own language. Their only education was shopkeeper arithmetic and memorized prayers.

They pushed my grandmother to make good, but they couldn't help with her education in a "de-facto homeschooler" way.

Six years in NYC public schools turned my grandmother into fluent un-foreign-accented literate speaker of English. She did not go to high school because she had to work, but she later became more well-read than some of today's college graduates.

How does that work nowadays?

Not that I would want to go back to 1910 in every way, but I think we have something to learn from the way things were done in that era.
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RedShift
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Re: Religious Right pushing for "Separation of School a

Post by RedShift »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
How does that work nowadays?
What's your evidence that it doesn't happen like that today?

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Religious Right pushing for "Separation of School a

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

RedShift wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
How does that work nowadays?
What's your evidence that it doesn't happen like that today?
Maybe it does sometimes. I don't see it.

If I had been in my grandmother's childhood situation 40 years ago, I probably would now be able to read a bit, but I would not know simple arithmetic unless I learned it later. I might "believe" in evolution, but I wouldn't really know about it.

That was 40 years ago. Are you saying it's better now?
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

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Post by NightG1 »

Pyrrho wrote:I wonder what the honorarium for the speakers amounts to? Travel, room and board probably paid for, too...
My guess is that if they are "real" Christian like, the honorarium will involve hookers, free cigarettes and a open bar. But people think I'm a cynic so there you go.

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Re: Religious Right pushing for "Separation of School a

Post by Loon »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Six years in NYC public schools turned my grandmother into fluent un-foreign-accented literate speaker of English. She did not go to high school because she had to work, but she later became more well-read than some of today's college graduates.

How does that work nowadays?
I'd guess it's much more about the "child of poor immigrants" than about 1910. I think there are studies that show the most productive people in the US are immigrants and the first generation that follows them.
exarch wrote:Unfortunately, those of us who were well educated by our parents, and who will one day educate their children well (if we ever have them) also know all about birth control. And many intelligent people are more interested in a carreer than in having kids (nothing wrong with that).

So you get loads of fundie-religious-right-voting-ignoramuses born in large fundie households where condoms and the pill are dirty words, and where mom spends her life in the kitchen, only leaving to pop out another kid. And they will all vote for the idiot who says he takes directions from god instead of for you, the intelligent guy with the good education promising to teach them about evolution. It cancels each other out, as it already has so far.
Hmmm. Democracy works when you have an enlightened electorate. Otherwise the best form of government is Loonocracy. Keep the masses down with Loon-sponsored and controlled preachers and stupid tv. Keep the proles happy.
I guess there he chose to err on the side of more votes. -[size=75]Grammatron[/size]