Scopes again

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Bottle or the Gun
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Scopes again

Post by Bottle or the Gun »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7711574/
Eighty years after a famed courtroom battle in Tennessee pitted religious beliefs about the origins of life against the theories of British scientist Charles Darwin, Kansas is holding its own hearings on what school children should be taught about how life on Earth began.

And more
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7013405/
St. Helens used in drive to prove biblical creation with science
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Post by Marian »

My favorite (before I became too pissed to continue reading the article) was a quote from the opening debates in Kansas on this issue where the proponent for creationism ranted:
"School science classes are teaching children that life evolved naturally and randomly, Harris said, arguing that this was in conflict with Biblical teachings that God created life.

"They are offering an answer that may be in conflict with religious views," Harris said in opening the debate. "Part of our overall goal is to remove the bias against religion that is currently in schools. This is a scientific controversy that has powerful religious implications."
So, you can no longer teach anything about the Sun...someone may still believe that it's Apollo driving the chariot through the skies.

Oh of course they're talking only about their religious views.

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Post by Quester_X »

...Apollo driving the chariot through the skies.
Not Apollo, although he was later considered to be the god of the sun. The sun's chariot was driven by a Titan, Helios, one of the original gods. He and a few other Titans such as Oceanus and Prometheus were allowed to stay free since they either sided with the Olympians or stayed out of the conflict.

Sorry, mythology nerd. Your original point is a very good one. These people are so blind...
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Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Not really comparable to Scopes. It's 100% legal to teach evolution, and it will be taught (sort of).

The question is whether the public schools will also teach creation.
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Not really comparable to Scopes. It's 100% legal to teach evolution, and it will be taught (sort of).
Not for long if these assholes get their way.

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Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Not really comparable to Scopes. It's 100% legal to teach evolution, and it will be taught (sort of).
Not for long if these assholes get their way.
The real problem is that the public schools don't even teach reading very well. If they can't read, it doesn't matter if they "believe" in evolution (in this context, really Flintstonism).

Making the teaching of evolution as such illegal is very unlikely, I would say.

What Jean Shepherd called "creeping meatballism" tends to make it all irrelevant. :x
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Not really comparable to Scopes. It's 100% legal to teach evolution, and it will be taught (sort of).
Not for long if these assholes get their way.
The real problem is that the public schools don't even teach reading very well. If they can't read, it doesn't matter if they "believe" in evolution (in this context, really Flintstonism).

Making the teaching of evolution as such illegal is very unlikely, I would say.

What Jean Shepherd called "creeping meatballism" tends to make it all irrelevant. :x
Maybe so about the reading part, but these asswipes don't particularly care if Johnny can read either, as long as he can unquestioningly accept whatever interpretation of the Bible his religious leaders choose to give him. Knowing how to read would just encourage him to read the damn thing himself and ask embarassing questions. Questions are bad, you know.

As for the likelyhood of making the teaching of evolution illegal, 1/3 of the populace would like to do jus that, as of last year. Yes, it's a minority, but it's a sizable one, too sizable to be considered just a handful of lunatic fringe nutters. It's enough to make such a scenario all too plausible, imo.

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Post by Doctor X »

Marian wrote:So, you can no longer teach anything about the Sun...someone may still believe that it's Apollo driving the chariot through the skies.
Heretic!! It is Helios who drives the chariot!!!

As for reading, one of the worse things a "person of faith" can do is read the Bible.

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Abdul Alhazred
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Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Nyarlathotep wrote:Maybe so about the reading part, but these asswipes don't particularly care if Johnny can read either, as long as he can unquestioningly accept whatever interpretation of the Bible his religious leaders choose to give him. Knowing how to read would just encourage him to read the damn thing himself and ask embarassing questions. Questions are bad, you know.
This is exactly right. It's easier to wise them up if they can read.

Or rather if they are inclined to read, even if they can read well enough to get through official forms and the like.

But the non-reading problem exists in "liberal" places as well.

There is something systemically wrong with USA public schools that goes beyond the usual puke versus rat, and attendant controversies.
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Post by Nyarlathotep »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Maybe so about the reading part, but these asswipes don't particularly care if Johnny can read either, as long as he can unquestioningly accept whatever interpretation of the Bible his religious leaders choose to give him. Knowing how to read would just encourage him to read the damn thing himself and ask embarassing questions. Questions are bad, you know.
This is exactly right. It's easier to wise them up if they can read.

Or rather if they are inclined to read, even if they can read well enough to get through official forms and the like.

But the non-reading problem exists in "liberal" places as well.

There is something systemically wrong with USA public schools that goes beyond the usual puke versus rat, and attendant controversies.
I won't argue that point with you, but the problems of the schools not adequately teaching them the things they SHOULD be teaching them and the problem of the schools teaching them bullshit and telling them it's science are really two seperate things. And the first does not excuse the second

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Post by En folkefiende »

Once again, I think that every highschool student should be able to accurately describe what the TOE is, what the major evidence for it is, and how well and thoroughly it is unquestionably confirmed, before they can graduate.

I didn't say they had to believe it, but they must be able to explain the overwhelming evidence. Denying the overwhelming evidence should be grounds for no diploma.
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Post by Andonyx »

jj wrote:Once again, I think that every highschool student should be able to accurately describe what the TOE is, what the major evidence for it is, and how well and thoroughly it is unquestionably confirmed, before they can graduate.

I didn't say they had to believe it, but they must be able to explain the overwhelming evidence. Denying the overwhelming evidence should be grounds for no diploma.
1. A bony filled protuberance at the end of most mammalian locomotive appendages.

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3. After Vatican two it was decided Adam and Eve could both be drawn with them showing. Even Catholics now support the TOE.
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Post by Abdul Alhazred »

jj wrote:Once again, I think that every highschool student should be able to accurately describe what the TOE is ...
A great idea. Even if they reject it, it should be on a higher level than saying "You said my grampa is a monkey".

Even the Orthodox Jews with their "Adam had a navel and a beard" stuff are more acceptible than the Christian fundies. At least the Jews don't claim it's science, nor organize to change the public school curriculum.
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