Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

Pyrrho wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:55 pm
Whoopsie:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N ... ?query=TOC
Apparently, the authors erroneously censored data on the deceased patients at the time of death. This is a serious methodologic error.
Wow. "If you exclude the patients who died from the analysis, the rate of improvement was very high!" :roll:
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robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

oh really?

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gnome
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by gnome »

While we're still on the subject.. apparently this problem is still a thing.

KGW8: Milwaukie woman battling lupus concerned by hydroxychloroquine shortage

The spelling of Milwaukie is not a typo--it is a location in Oregon.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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The Atheist
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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CNN & Lancet - the 90,000 strong chloroquine study can be safely ignored: https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/us ... 6b21bc0959
Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted:

"It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

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The Atheist
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by The Atheist »

Here's the treatment you should be promoting: https://nypost.com/2020/05/21/scientist ... ronavirus/
Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted:

"It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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What about horseshit? Or goat shit? It's obvious at this point that bullshit hasn't prevented infections.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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ed
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by ed »

Religion is strong in the virus research community.
About that stereo

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The Atheist
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Pyrrho wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:04 pm
What about horseshit? Or goat shit? It's obvious at this point that bullshit hasn't prevented infections.
Nice!
Pyrrho wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:45 pm
More remdesivir data:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NE ... Tools=true
So, 25% better than nothing. I guess it's a good start but certainly no silver bullet.

Quite a lot better than chloroquine, at least.
Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted:

"It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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ed wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:48 pm
Religion is strong in the virus research community.
Scientific studies--properly-conducted scientific studies--require careful planning, methodology that meets scientific standards, and thorough analysis of the results. None of it is easy, and it's not religion. Unlike religion, the results are subject to scrutiny and to revision and often retraction when the golden egg turns out to be a cow pie, which is as it should be for any such endeavors. Statistical methods and the rigors of clinical studies may be beyond the comprehension of people who don't do that work for a living, and it would be an act of hubris to just hand-wave it away as superstition.

As opposed to ignorant promotion of drugs by cynical politicians who don't care who lives or dies. If there's any religion involved, it's the worship of ratings, money, and power.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

The Atheist wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:15 am
Pyrrho wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:04 pm
What about horseshit? Or goat shit? It's obvious at this point that bullshit hasn't prevented infections.
Nice!
Pyrrho wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:45 pm
More remdesivir data:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NE ... Tools=true
So, 25% better than nothing. I guess it's a good start but certainly no silver bullet.

Quite a lot better than chloroquine, at least.
25%? Not sure where that figure is in the document. What they concluded is that remdesivir appears to have shortened recovery times. Certainly no miracle cure but possibly helpful. Full analysis has yet to be published.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

https://mcmansionhell.com/post/61893898 ... phenomenon
By April, companies like Apple and Nike were promising the use of existing facilities for producing or supplying an arms race’s worth of slick-tech face coverings. Starchitecture’s perennial PR-churners like Foster + Partners and Bjarke Ingels were repping “3D-printed face shields”, while other, lesser firms promised wearable vaporware like “grapheme filters,” branded “skincare LED masks for encouraging self-development” and “solar powered bubble shields.”

While the mask Coronagrift continues to this day, the Coronagrifting phenomenon had, by early March, moved to other domains of design.

Consider the barrage of asinine PR fluff that is the “Public Service Announcement” and by Public Service Announcement, I mean “A Designer Has Done Something Cute to Capitalize on Information Meant to Save Lives.”
Enough, already.
Frankly, after an endless barrage of cyberpunk mask designs, social distancing burger king crowns, foot-triggered crosswalk beg buttons that completely ignore accessibility concerns such as those of wheelchair users, cutesy “stay home uwu” projects from well-to-do art celebrities (who are certainly not suffering too greatly from the economic ramifications of this pandemic), I, like the reader featured in the Dezeen Tweet at the beginning of this post, have simply had enough of this bullshit.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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The Atheist
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Pyrrho wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:33 pm
25%? Not sure where that figure is in the document. What they concluded is that remdesivir appears to have shortened recovery times. Certainly no miracle cure but possibly helpful. Full analysis has yet to be published.
I came up with the 25% as it seemed to be the length of time it shortened infection by.

I agree with your analysis, though - it's a step in the right direction.
Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted:

"It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

From the Results statement:
Preliminary results from the 1059 patients (538 assigned to remdesivir and 521 to placebo) with data available after randomization indicated that those who received remdesivir had a median recovery time of 11 days (95% confidence interval [CI], 9 to 12), as compared with 15 days (95% CI, 13 to 19) in those who received placebo (rate ratio for recovery, 1.32; 95% CI, 1.12 to 1.55; P<0.001). The KaplanMeier estimates of mortality by 14 days were 7.1% with remdesivir and 11.9% with placebo (hazard ratio for death, 0.70; 95% CI, 0.47 to 1.04).
That's pretty much all statistical language. Could do with what they call a "plain language summary."

Probably the easiest data to understand for non-medical scientists are in Table 2 on page 8 of the PDF. Overall, there were 538 patients treated with Remdesivir, and 521 patients treated with Placebo. Those treatments were in addition to whatever other treatments they were getting. There is a listing of different categories depending upon the patients' status at the time of study treatments.

Time to recovery for patients receiving remdesivir had a median of 11 days.
Time to recovery for patients receiving placebo had a median of 15 days.

Now, the actual times to recovery would have been different for each patient. The median values are statistics which I am not smart enough to explain.

https://www.dummies.com/education/math/ ... ical-data/

The Kaplan-Meier charts on page 6 show times to recovery and the percentage of patients who recovered over the number of days listed on the X-axis.

Overall (1,059 patients)
334 out of 538 Remdesivir patients recovered
273 out of 521 Placebo patients recovered
32 deaths by day 14 in the remdesivir group
54 deaths by day 14 in the placebo group

Ordinal Score 4: Patients in hospital, not requiring oxygen, but getting ongoing care
61 out of 67 Remdesivir patients recovered
47 out of 60 Placebo patients recovered
1 death by day 14 in the remdesivir group
1 death by day 14 in the placebo group

Ordinal Score 5: Patients in hospital, requiring oxygen
177 out of 222 Remdesivir patients recovered
128 out of 199 Placebo patients recovered
4 deaths by day 14 in the remdesivir group
19 deaths by day 14 in the placebo group

Ordinal Score 6: Patients in hospital, requiring noninvasive ventilation or high-flow oxygen devices
47 out of 98 Remdesivir patients recovered
43 out of 99 Placebo patients recovered
13 deaths by day 14 in the remdesivir group
13 deaths by day 14 in the placebo group

Ordinal Score 7: Patients in hospital, requiring invasive ventilation or ECMO
45 out of 125 Remdesivir patients recovered
51 out of 147 Placebo patients recovered
13 deaths by day 14 in the remdesivir group
19 deaths by day 14 in the placebo group

Generally, those data suggest that remdesivir may have improved the chances for recovery for patients who received it. Also, the data suggest that for certain groups, there were fewer deaths in the remdesivir arm. In other groups, little to no difference. Overall, though, they state 7.1% death rate by day 14 in the remdesivir group and 11.9% death rate by day 14 in the placebo group. If I could find the data, I'd post the death rates for influenza in hospitalized patients.

I don't know enough about statistics to explain Kaplan-Meier charts on page 6 to any detailed degree, but the various graphs indicate that patients receiving remdesivir improved in fewer days than patients receiving placebo--depending on the health of the patient. The gap between the two curves on each chart shows the difference between the two "arms" of the study. The "No. at Risk" numbers below each chart are the number of patients who haven't recovered, corresponding to the number of days listed on the X axis.

No surprise that a lower percentage of patients recovered in the group receiving high-flow oxygen/noninvasive ventilation and the group receiving mechanical ventilation/ECMO. In panel D, we see that remdesivir treatment wasn't much better than placebo, and in panel D, it was about the same until near the end. The sicker you are, the more likely you're not going to recover, and that's just the way it is, folks. I can't explain hazard ratios, rate ratios, median, or 95% confidence intervals without looking that stuff up. I dimly recall that the 95% confidence interval means that there is a 95% confidence that a given data point lies between the lower and upper confidence interval values--it is NOT "95% confidence that the data is correct".

Keep in mind that patients had different degrees of illness and different additional conditions, listed in table 1. Also keep in mind that it's a preliminary report. Subsequent and final reports and supplemental information will most likely show different results.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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corplinx
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Here is your daily reminder that democrats have now politicized and corrupted research into treatments. Don't trust a damn thing in the US.

The Chinese are forced to comply with a government, but in the US 40% of the country are evil people who are complicit in a conspiracy against the human race.

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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

It's not that simplistic.

Science is either conducted with appropriate rigor or it is not. Tweets from those with vested interests notwithstanding, work published in reputable journals is subject to a lot of scrutiny. Like any human endeavor, mistakes are made.

Meanwhile, to help us all get our minds right:

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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gnome
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by gnome »

Ok, now I'm sure QAnon is just fucking with people.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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There is and has been a huge market for abuse of that sort.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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corplinx
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by corplinx »

Is Q just a big HyperPoe to fuck with the media?