BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

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Witness
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:09 am

gnome wrote:(presumably at gunpoint)?
Gun? Too Murican. One of my (ex) colleagues got mugged with the cash out of the machine still in her hands: a spurt of alcohol (kirsch, apparently :mrgreen: ) into the eyes and you're helpless. :(

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by gnome » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:30 pm

Yikes!
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:14 am

Foxconn's entry heats up race for first mass-market Bitcoin-friendly phone

Raising the stakes is Taiwan's Foxconn, the world's largest contract electronics maker and a key Apple and Amazon supplier.

A Foxconn unit has agreed to develop and produce a blockchain-based smartphone from Swiss-Israeli technology startup Sirin Labs, Bloomberg reported last week.

The new smartphone, called the Finney, will let users "shop on crypto friendly sites like Overstock.com and Expedia, converting cash into specialized tokens if needed," Bloomberg said.

Users may also trade battery power with others and get paid in tokens or earn by simply allowing a tourist to browse the internet using their phone's Wi-Fi.

"Blockchain technologies and cryptocurrencies are considered to be too complex for 99.99 percent of the population," Sirin said in a white paper, adding that Finney will help bring cryptocurrencies to the masses.
http://www.dw.com/en/foxconns-entry-hea ... a-43320990

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:05 am

How close are we to the point where the maximum number of bitcoins has been "mined"?
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:07 am

OTOH, what governments do for currency these days is also cockamamie.

The question is whether it is possible to make a cockamamie currency work without the implicit threat of deadly force.
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:48 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:How close are we to the point where the maximum number of bitcoins has been "mined"?
2145. This graph goes to 2033

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness » Sun May 20, 2018 12:47 am

Bitcoin to use 0.5% of world’s electricity by end of 2018

London: Bitcoin, one of the most popular cryptocurrencies, currently uses almost as much power as Ireland does, and could be consuming about 0.5% of the world’s total electricity by the end of this year, a study has found.

Bitcoin’s burgeoning electricity demands have attracted almost as much attention as the cryptocurrency’s wildly fluctuating value. However, estimating exactly how much electricity the bitcoin network uses, necessary for understanding its impact and implementing policy, remains a challenge.

“We’ve seen a lot of back-of-the-envelope calculations, but we need more scientific discussion on where this network is headed. Right now, the information available is pretty poor quality overall, so I’m hoping that people will use this paper as a foundation for more research,” said economist and blockchain specialist Alex de Vries, who works at PwC in the Netherlands.

The estimates, based in economics, put the minimum current usage of the bitcoin network at 2.55 gigawatts, which means it uses almost as much electricity as Ireland. A single transaction uses as much electricity as an average household in the Netherlands uses in a month. By the end of this year, he predicts the network could be using as much as 7.7 gigawatts—as much as Austria and 0.5% of the world’s total consumption.

“To me, half a per cent is already quite shocking. It’s an extreme difference compared to the regular financial system, and this increasing electricity demand is definitely not going to help us reach our climate goals,” he said. If the price of bitcoin continues to increase the way some experts have predicted, De Vries believes the network could someday consume 5% of the world’s electricity.
https://www.livemint.com/Money/3wU3b1Iu ... -2018.html

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun May 20, 2018 1:09 am

How does that compare to the amount of electricity used by cam whores?
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun May 20, 2018 10:08 am

Jesus, that's a lot of electricity.
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How does that compare to the amount of electricity used by cam whores?
I don't know, but somebody has calculated how much electricity it takes to run the Internet.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christophe ... dd9ef41fff
America’s myriad server farms and data centers operate 100 million drives that hold 350 million terabytes of data — everything from your decade-old emails to lolcat videos and the collected offerings of Netflix NFLX -0.3%.

A new report from the Department of Energy’s Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory figures that those data centers use an enormous amount of energy — some 70 billion kilowatt hours per year. That amounts to 1.8% of total American electricity consumption. At an average cost of 10 cents per kwh, the annual cost of all that juice is on the order of $7 billion.

Seventy billion kilowatt hours is such a giant number that it’s helpful to put it into some other terms. For comparison purposes, 1 kwh is enough power to keep ten 100-watt lightbulbs illuminated for one hour, or to keep your smartphone charged for an entire year.


To generate 70 billion kwh you’d need power plants with a baseload capacity of 8,000 megawatts — equivalent to about 8 big nuclear reactors, or twice the output of all the nation’s solar panels.

Sliced up per capita, the average American uses about 200 kwh a year for his or her internet use, costing about $20. For those of you obsessed with carbon footprints, your internet use is responsible for the emission of about 300 pounds of carbon dioxide per year.

But our internet addiction is only growing. According to Nielsen, the average adult in the United States spends 10 hours and 39 minutes a day consuming digital media. That’s up an hour a day in the past year. And we’re spending most of that additional time peering at our smart phones, which now occupy us for an hour and a half each day.
And that's just for America. According to another article I found, porn accounts for about 30% of internet traffic, so you can do the math. As of now porn probably uses more electricity than bitcoin, but they're in the same ballpark.
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Sun May 20, 2018 11:53 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Jesus, that's a lot of electricity.
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How does that compare to the amount of electricity used by cam whores?
I don't know, but somebody has calculated how much electricity it takes to run the Internet.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christophe ... dd9ef41fff
... Sliced up per capita, the average American uses about 200 kwh a year for his or her internet use, costing about $20. ...
And that's just for America. According to another article I found, porn accounts for about 30% of internet traffic, so you can do the math. As of now porn probably uses more electricity than bitcoin, but they're in the same ballpark.
This growing consumption is not reflected as growth in total consumption.
Image

I'm going to consume energy no matter what I do. The only thing I could do that is less of a load than surfing the internet or watching Netflix is perhaps reading a book.

One conclusion: Given the choice of watching porn or ironing clothes, we're all very wrinkled.

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Witness
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:42 am

No, Rob, you should not sign up:
Sky News wrote:Treatment centre for cryptocurrency addicts opens in the Scottish Borders
https://news.sky.com/story/treatment-ce ... s-11387974

:lmao:

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Wilsondrake » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:15 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Jesus, that's a lot of electricity.
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How does that compare to the amount of electricity used by cam whores?
I don't know, but somebody has calculated how much electricity it takes to run the Internet.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christophe ... dd9ef41fff
America’s myriad server farms and data centers operate 100 million drives that hold 350 million terabytes of data — everything from your decade-old emails to lolcat videos and the collected offerings of Netflix NFLX -0.3%.

A new report from the Department of Energy’s Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory figures that those data centers use an enormous amount of energy — some 70 billion kilowatt hours per year. That amounts to 1.8% of total American electricity consumption. At an average cost of 10 cents per kwh, the annual cost of all that juice is on the order of $7 billion.

Seventy billion kilowatt hours is such a giant number that it’s helpful to put it into some other terms. For comparison purposes, 1 kwh is enough power to keep ten 100-watt lightbulbs illuminated for one hour, or to keep your smartphone charged for an entire year.


To generate 70 billion kwh you’d need power plants with a baseload capacity of 8,000 megawatts — equivalent to about 8 big nuclear reactors, or twice the output of all the nation’s solar panels.

Sliced up per capita, the average American uses about 200 kwh a year for his or her internet use, costing about $20. For those of you obsessed with carbon footprints, your internet use is responsible for the emission of about 300 pounds of carbon dioxide per year.

But our internet addiction is only growing. According to Nielsen, the average adult in the United States spends 10 hours and 39 minutes a day consuming digital media. That’s up an hour a day in the past year. And we’re spending most of that additional time peering at our smart phones, which now occupy us for an hour and a half each day.
And that's just for America. According to another article I found, porn accounts for about 30% of internet traffic, so you can do the math. As of now porn probably uses more electricity than bitcoin, but they're in the same ballpark.
Why is everyone so much concerned with the electricity here ? Bitcoin or the Cryptocurrency or the blockchain technology is revolutionary. People mostly consider it as a source of income or money only. But it is actually an asset.

Find out the real use cases and ba bang! you have a new mode of exchange. Likewise exchange websites like Binance, have made their own coin named as BNB this was the usecase as people trading at Binance now can use BNB to pay for Binance fees there and then. For me Cryptocurrency or most call it bitcoin lolll is the revolution and if you do not jump in yet then you are mising out. PEACE

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:37 pm

Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling Even as Volatility Eases
  • Chainalysis study shows payment usage peaked in September
  • Merchants seeing more transactions for bigger-ticket items
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... lity-eases

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:16 am

Energy cost of 'mining' bitcoin more than twice that of copper or gold

New research reveals that cryptocurrencies require far more electricity per-dollar than it takes to mine most real metals

The amount of energy required to “mine” one dollar’s worth of bitcoin is more than twice that required to mine the same value of copper, gold or platinum, according to a new paper, suggesting that the virtual work that underpins bitcoin, ethereum and similar projects is more similar to real mining than anyone intended.

One dollar’s worth of bitcoin takes about 17 megajoules of energy to mine, according to researchers from the Oak Ridge Institute in Cincinnati, Ohio, compared with four, five and seven megajoules for copper, gold and platinum.
[…]
The new paper is the first to look at the mining efforts from the point of view of energy cost per dollar benefit. “The comparison is made to quantify and contextualise the decentralised energy demand that the mining of these cryptocurrencies requires,” the authors write, “and to encourage debate on whether these energy demands are both sustainable and appropriate given the product that results from relatively similar energy consumption (when normalised by market price).”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... er-or-gold

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:28 am

Witness wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:16 am
... is more similar to real mining than anyone intended.


:roll:

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:25 am

OTOH, any old zhlub can start a Bitcoin "mine".
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:50 am

Maybe someone should have invented a "greener" cryptocurrency sooner. I.e., does it inherently need to consume all that power?

Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Absurd Energy Consumption by 99 Percent
The cryptocurrency is going on an energy diet to compete with more efficient blockchains

Bitcoin soaks up most of the hype and the opprobrium heaped on cryptocurrencies, leaving its younger and smaller sibling Ethereum in the shadows. But Ethereum is anything but small. Its market capitalization was roughly US $10 billion at press time, and it has an equally whopping energy footprint.

Ethereum mining consumes a quarter to half of what Bitcoin mining does, but that still means that for most of 2018 it was using roughly as much electricity as Iceland. Indeed, the typical Ethereum transaction gobbles more power than an average U.S. household uses in a day.

“That’s just a huge waste of resources, even if you don’t believe that pollution and carbon dioxide are an issue. There are real consumers—real people—whose need for electricity is being displaced by this stuff,” says Vitalik Buterin, the 24-year-old Russian-Canadian computer scientist who invented Ethereum when he was just 18.

Buterin plans to finally start undoing his brainchild’s energy waste in 2019. This year Buterin, the Ethereum Foundation he cofounded, and the broader open-source movement advancing the cryptocurrency all plan to field-test a long-promised overhaul of Ethereum’s code. If these developers are right, by the end of 2019 Ethereum’s new code could complete transactions using just 1 percent of the energy consumed today.
Even if you are a global warming skeptic, electricity costs money, so why would you want to consume more of it than you need to?
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:25 am

The trick was always to use someone else's electricity.
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:12 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:25 am
The trick was always to use someone else's electricity.
Efficiency is is always an advantage. I think the massive amount of power that bitcoin consumes could be its achilles heel.

Objectively, there any reason other than it was the first and most famous cryptocurrency why bitcoin should be worth more than any other? :notsure:
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:27 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:12 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:25 am
The trick was always to use someone else's electricity.
Efficiency is is always an advantage. I think the massive amount of power that bitcoin consumes could be its achilles heel.
But that power cost equated to vested interest; it defined the bottom dollar. I'm not going to sell my coins for less than they cost me to mine them if I can help it.
Objectively, there any reason other than it was the first and most famous cryptocurrency why bitcoin should be worth more than any other? :notsure:
Being first is important. But I'm :notsure: either.

Looking at the Ethereum plan, I gotta say that I don't get it. I get Proof of Work but I can't wrap my wee mind around Proof of Stake. I'm not hating it becasue I don't really understand it.