Fukushima one year on

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DrMatt
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by DrMatt »

Look, I know that in Japan you can take a bath in a strong alternating current. It seems you ought to be able to get a robot to bottle water with melted core dissolved in it, as a mineral remedy for foreigners. That would be a nice Festivus present for Rob.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Funny you should mention that. At TMI they took a sample of the cooling water while that one was in the process of partially melting. Guy who took the sample later recalled that is was fizzing just like sparkling mineral water. He also remarked that it was rather cloudy looking, not really something a person would mistake as being good for you. :)
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Re: Fukushima four years on

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Conclusions: Exposure to low doses and to low dose-rates of radiation from post-Chernobyl cleanup work was associated with a significant increase in risk of leukemia,
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1204996/

Only one environmental risk factor (ionizing radiation) has been significantly linked to ALL or AML.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1817663/

Exposure to high doses of radiation shortly after the nuclear accident at Three Mile Island may have increased cancer among Pennsylvanians downwind of the plant, scientists at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill say.
http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/feb97/wing.html

Results support the hypothesis that radiation doses are related to increased cancer incidence around TMI.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1469835/

Case–control study of cancer among children < 5 years of age found that residence within 5 km of a nuclear facility was associated with a 61% increased incidence of all cancer (Spix et al. 2008)

119% excess risk of leukemia (Kaatsch et al. 2008a)

Meta-analysis of geographic studies reported 23% higher incidence of leukemia among children 0–9 years of age living within 16 km of nuclear facilities (Baker and Hoel 2007)

Study of childhood leukemia after the Chernobyl accident, which classified radiation doses based on soil radioactivity and diet, reported an excess relative risk per gray of radiation of 32.4 (Davis et al. 2006)

Nuclear believers deny any cancer is related to any nuclear accidents. "How many died?" is the idiot response when somebody points out there was a terrible disaster.

"However, it cannot be ignored that the majority of studies have found elevated rates"
Eur J Cancer Care (Engl). 2007 Jul;16(4):355-63.
Meta-analysis of standardized incidence and mortality rates of childhood leukaemia in proximity to nuclear facilities.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17587361

Of course it can be ignored. And denied.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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What's the death count at Fukushima Robinson?

Still zero?

Or since you don't want to answer that ... is it still several orders of magnitude less than coal?

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Re: Fukushima one year on

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sparks wrote:Funny you should mention that. At TMI they took a sample of the cooling water while that one was in the process of partially melting. Guy who took the sample later recalled that is was fizzing just like sparkling mineral water. He also remarked that it was rather cloudy looking, not really something a person would mistake as being good for you. :)
Perfectly good for Rob, though. Because coal!
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Well, core cooling water does tend to ooze a bit now then, don't it? :)
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Rob asks: "What's the death count at Fukushima Robinson?

Still zero?"

Again, depends on how you define a death count as a result of Fukushima. And that's why I still maintain that in order to get an accurate count, we'll have to wait at least 20 years cause that's how long it's going to take for a lot of the inevitable cancers to show up.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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What, in real numbers, were the cancer rates of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Here: http://k1project.org/explore-health/hir ... th-effects
And here: http://atomicbombmuseum.org/3_health.shtml
And here: http://www.rerf.jp/radefx/late_e/cancrisk.html

There are others of course, but even in these you won't find many real numbers. Only statistics. Usually about the increase in leukemia incidence.

And, of course, exposure to an exploding atomic bomb is a vastly different animal from low level yet chronic exposure from a Nukular power plant in tatters such as Fukushima. It's frustrating as hell. There's just no way to absolutely know that, yes-this particular case of leukemia was caused by the meltdown at the very modern and completely safe Slag Heap Nukular Facility. Or that this particular case was caused by Mr. Woos love of chain smoking Pall Malls. Be great if cancer cells kept an error log that we could read, wouldn't it?

All fascinating shit.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Indeed.

And it is not that incredible--or at least not as popularly supposed.

Now, compare with the dose delivered by Fukushima.

You do recognize the problem with sorting out confounding variables. I am afraid I do not have the time to sort through the nuts and bolts of those studies so I will assume they are legitimate prospective studies comparing the incidents with the non-affected population. You are "stuck" with determining whether or not an increase is significant and attributed to the "thing" you are studying. To be fair, they may have matched populations scrupulously to control for "he smoked 7 packs of filterless Camels through his ass for thirty years."

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"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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But let us see what Peezus' favorite Social Justice Warrior has to say about it:

[youtube]hN7Zm8XO7Zc[/youtube]

[youtube]Zw33AVqzQxA[/youtube]

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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Re: Fukushima one year on

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sparks wrote:Rob asks: "What's the death count at Fukushima Robinson?

Still zero?"

Again, depends on how you define a death count as a result of Fukushima. And that's why I still maintain that in order to get an accurate count, we'll have to wait at least 20 years cause that's how long it's going to take for a lot of the inevitable cancers to show up.
Those who --WHO-- study such things anticipate that there will likely be few.
http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/05/wo ... shima.html

A few doesn't mean zero. I've opined boorishly (but with references) on this matter in this and other threads. A single high-energy photo or hydrogen nucleus or neutron is all.it.takes. There will be cancers and of those some will result in life-years lost. But they will be so few as to be lost in the background noise of--as DocX mentioned--cigarettes and sun-tanning booths. I submit to you that ten times the life-years lost will be pulmonary diseases caused by starting up all those coal plants to make up for the lost energy supply. Hell, you'll probably get far more cancers being exposed to all the toxic waste caused by the flooding.
sparks wrote:...exposure to an exploding atomic bomb is a vastly different animal from low level yet chronic exposure from a Nukular power plant
You call it Fukushima 'chronic' exposure, but I don't know why. The population was evacuated very quickly. And there was that whole 'flood' thing. So, exposure there was far, far less prolonged than Hiroshima or Nagasaki where folks pretty much just stayed there and lived in it, near it, and downwind from it. They ate, drank and slept it.

Just as a side note: I suspect there are some shrewd dealings by real estate mongrels to buy up as much of that Fukushima area as possible, on the real-cheap.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Rob says: "You call it Fukushima 'chronic' exposure, but I don't know why. "

Only pointing out that exposure to a bombs fuckery happens in two ways: At the moment of the explosion and then, to the fallout, which, as you know, is what remains of the bomb fuel and other materials that have been activated by neutron absorption.

With a melted reactor core, you've got not just pounds of material but tons of it and, while it's a low level risk if one stays the fuck away from it (where is it again???) it will be there for a very very long time.

Low level chronic.

But really it's a matter of definition of exposure. Is a bomb worse because it happens within seconds and you can't get away from it or a melted reactor which will be there for decades which you may (or may not) be able to avoid?

I don't know.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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sparks wrote: ... Low level chronic.
missing exposure

Speaking of exposure: http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ne ... ds-n409516

Tiny snip ...
Air pollution is killing about 4,000 people in China a day, accounting for 1 in 6 premature deaths in the world's most populous country, a new study finds.
...
The study released Thursday blamed emissions from the burning of coal, both for electricity and heating homes.
So while the fearmongers of the world point to unseen blips in contrived meta-studies on Fukashima, 1.5 million die annually from coal in China alone.
In a 2010 document, the EPA estimates that between 63,000 and 88,000 people die in the U.S. from air pollution. Other estimates range from 35,000 to 200,000.
How many orders of magnitude does it take to convince them?

Anti-vaxers pale in comparison.

Go green.
Go nuclear.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Agreed! Preferably LFTR.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Rob Lister wrote:Anti-vaxers pale in comparison.
Especially when you add in the incredible amount of mercury released from burning coal, and the extensive damage done to watersheds and entire mountains.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Welll, it probably doesn't make that much difference anyway: We'll all be toast from the 'orrible runaway greenhouse climate planet killer thingy anyway, right?

Or, alternately, ManBearPig.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Rob Lister wrote:
In a 2010 document, the EPA estimates that between 63,000 and 88,000 people die in the U.S. from air pollution. Other estimates range from 35,000 to 200,000.
How many orders of magnitude does it take to convince them?
Convince who?

If you could convince a judge, you could sue for damages. The problem is, you can't. It's just like with radiation damage, or somewhat like vaccine side effects, it's very hard to prove in court.

The difference is, vaccine damage does actually have a court, and they pay victims every year.

Nobody has ever won against a nuclear leak, or a coal plant, for damages to health.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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robinson wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
In a 2010 document, the EPA estimates that between 63,000 and 88,000 people die in the U.S. from air pollution. Other estimates range from 35,000 to 200,000.
How many orders of magnitude does it take to convince them?
Convince who?
Let's start with you.