Fukushima one year on

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robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Even worse, it's now known (the hard way) that the Mark 1 containment (Fuksuhima and a lot of others) has a serious design flaw. If the spent fuel pond goes dry, either through a leak or the water boils away, the melting spent fuel will melt through the concrete, and the hot fuel will end up on the torus below. Which, if it still has water in it, will lead to the worst case scenario. The entire load of hot, dangerous, melting and burning fuel will simply blow sky high, making the entire site, and everywhere down wind, so radioactive nobody, and no machine can get anywhere near it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containme ... r_reactors

Of course that would just be the start of the worst case scenario. What happens next is much much worse.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Any reasonable skeptic who knows anything about this can figure out what happens next. I don't even want to type it out, much less think about it.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Bruce wrote: Wed May 16, 2012 10:57 pm Has the reactor melted it's way down to the core of the earth yet? You know, like the nuclear scientists of the 1940's promised?
Nobody ever predicted that. What they did worry about (and for good reason) was a nuclear meltdown melting it's way down until it hits groundwater.

Most people only focus on the negative in this matter. All worried about the steam explosion that would explode 100 tons of radioactive fuel into the upper atmosphere.

But what about the positive? We can use molten nuclear spent fuel to make very deep wells, anywhere, at any time. A self sustaining mass of super hot material, just going farther and rather down into the crust of the earth. Melting through anything and everything, until it reaches the magma!

We could actually create artificial volcanoes! How cool is that?

Just make sure there is no groundwater, and off we go. And hell, there is so much spent fuel in the world, and nobody really wants it around, you could get it dirt cheap. A win win situation for all.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Ah, the good old no TrueTM SkepticTM fallacy!
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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No true skeptic would call me a bot
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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You twit
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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robinson wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:04 pm The Internet can make you cranky
sparks wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:39 pmCan?
Yes, it can. The trick is, or rather the secret of it all, is to not look at internet
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Fukushima: Japan will have to dump radioactive water into Pacific, minister says

More than a million tonnes of contaminated water lies in storage but power company says it will run out of space by 2022

The operator of the ruined Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant will have to dump huge quantities of contaminated water from the site directly into the Pacific Ocean, Japan’s environment minister has said – a move that would enrage local fishermen.

More than 1 million tonnes of contaminated water has accumulated at the plant since it was struck by a tsunami in March 2011, triggering a triple meltdown that forced the evacuation of tens of thousands of residents.

Tokyo Electric Power (Tepco) has struggled to deal with the buildup of groundwater, which becomes contaminated when it mixes with water used to prevent the three damaged reactor cores from melting.

Tepco has attempted to remove most radionuclides from the excess water, but the technology does not exist to rid the water of tritium, a radioactive isotope of hydrogen. Coastal nuclear plants commonly dump water that contains tritium into the ocean. It occurs in minute amounts in nature.

Tepco admitted last year that the water in its tanks still contained contaminants beside tritium.

Currently, more than 1m tonnes of contaminated water is held in almost 1,000 tanks at the Fukushima Daiichi site, but the utility has warned that it will run out of tank space by the summer of 2022.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ister-says
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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You'd think that after 8 years of cooling of what's left of the 3 cores that they'd be stable enough not to need cooling.

https://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear-power/nu ... spent-fuel

"All spent fuel should be transferred from wet to dry storage within five years of discharge from the reactor core. "

The Fukushima meltdowns are hardly a normal situation I grant you, but 8 years of water is still 8 years. Why are Tepco peeps worried about running out of places to put contaminated water in '22? What's going on that they still need to dump water on these fucking slag heaps at all?
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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That is the terrible dark secret. The same one is happening at Chernobyl
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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I suppose the spent fuel is in rods with a high surface to volume ratio for good passive cooling, whereas the ex-core is in larger clumps that therefore require more cooling to stop them melting?

Same reason an elephant has trouble keeping cool while a mouse in the same environment has trouble keeping warm - even with its fur coat.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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↑ Good point. And there's also the fact that a hefty "clump" will be nearer the critical mass… and generating more energy than broken up in separate rods.

For a sphere of plutonium it's ~ 10 kg.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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2,667 radioactive bags from Fukushima nuke disaster unleashed by Typhoon Hagibis

According to Asahi Shimbun, a temporary storage facility containing some 2,667 bags stuffed with radioactive contaminants from the 2011 Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster was unexpectedly inundated by floodwaters brought by Typhoon Hagibis. Torrential rain flooded the storage facility and released the bags into a stream 100 meters away.

Officials from Tamara City in Fukushima Prefecture said that each bag is approximately one cubic meter in size. Authorities were only able to recover six of the bags by 9 p.m. on Oct. 12, and it is uncertain how many remain on the loose while the possible environmental impact is being assessed.
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3795303
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Oops.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Wow the disaster that keeps on disasting.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Japan needs thousands of foreign workers to decommission Fukushima plant, prompting backlash from anti-nuke campaigners and rights activists
  • Activists are not convinced working at the site is safe for anyone and they fear foreign workers will feel ‘pressured’ to ignore risks if jobs are at risk
  • Towns and villages around the plant are still out of bounds because radiation levels are dangerously high
Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) has announced it will take advantage of the government’s new working visa scheme, which was introduced on April 1 and permits thousands of foreign workers to come to Japan to meet soaring demand for labourers. The company has informed subcontractors overseas nationals will be eligible to work cleaning up the site and providing food services.

...

Activists are far from convinced working at the site is safe for anyone and they fear foreign workers will feel “pressured” to ignore the risks if their jobs are at risk.

“We are strongly opposed to the plan because we have already seen that workers at the plant are being exposed to high levels of radiation and there have been numerous breaches of labour standards regulations,” said Hajime Matsukubo, secretary general of the Tokyo-based Citizens’ Nuclear Information Centre. “Conditions for foreign workers at many companies across Japan are already bad but it will almost certainly be worse if they are required to work decontaminating a nuclear accident site.”

Companies are desperately short of labourers, in part because of the construction work connected to Tokyo hosting the 2020 Olympic Games, while TEPCO is further hampered because any worker who has been exposed to 50 millisieverts of radiation in a single year or 100 millisieverts over five years is not permitted to remain at the plant. Those limits mean the company must find labourers from a shrinking pool.
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asi ... -fukushima
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Why not shoot the shit into the sun?
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Too expensive. (You're the only one I know who could possibly afford that shit... :) )
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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The awful question, which almost nobody wants to ask, much less digest an answer to, is "how long does a spent fuel rod (or melted spent fuel) stay hot and dangerous?"

The dangerous part is easy. At least 10,000 years.

The "hot", as in physical heat, is another story.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Dangerous means if you are close to it, you will get sick and die. If you are really close to it this will happen in minutes.

If just a tiny tiny bit of it gets inside you, you will also die sooner than expected.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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The reason spent fuel rods stay hot is that after they have been active, they are full of dangerous fission by-products. So spontaneous fission happens in fuel rods from fuel and fission products. These spontaneous fissions are what keep the fuel rods hot even when they are n longer used in a reactor.

Like the fuel melted under Chernobyl, or in the walls of Three Mile Island, the material at Fukushima is hot and dangerous for at least 10,000 years.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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First.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Build a honkin big cofferdam around the whole thing and fill it with concrete. Concrete with small amounts of lead in suspension.

Then build a mall on top of the resulting pylon.

Call it The Glowworm Mall

Fixed.

My bill is in the mail.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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ed wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:17 pm Build a honkin big cofferdam around the whole thing and fill it with concrete.
Out of sight, out of mind
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Like so much else in life.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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It has been suggested, to get rid of radioactive garbage, to dump it where a continental plate slides under another one.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Hello person, ocean, ecosystem we were told to put this radioactive mess here. Is it in fact true this is the place (consults paperwork) the sun don't shine?
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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There are huge problems with actually making that happen.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Similar problems were found in just transporting radioactive spent fuel to the mountain. Then it was discovered the mountain wasn't going to work as well.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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"More than 30 million highly radioactive spent nuclear fuel rods are submerged in vulnerable storage pools all over the country"

https://ips-dc.org/expert_cautions_that ... _disaster/

And that is just the US

Worldwide, the amount of extremely dangerous fuel rods is frankly, un the fuck believable
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Since spent fuel rods still produce heat, and can fission (when the control rods are removed), why do they stop using them in a reactor? Why remove them?

Lots of energy still in them.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Spent fuel rods produce heat because of the continuing radioactive decay of fission products. And since our reactors only 'burn' about 5% of the U235 before the rods are poisoned by fission products, this makes a sustainable chain reaction in spent fuel very difficult indeed in spite of all the unused, essentially wasted, fuel that remains in the rods.

So, decay heat yes. Lots of reactivity available in spent fuel? No. That's why spent fuel rods have to be removed from the reactor. Please keep in mind the balance that has to be maintained here and how badly fission products fuck with that balance in a detrimental way. That's not to say that there isn't some reactivity still available in spent fuel. To insure spent fuel behaves itself in some spent fuel pools, 'control rods' consisting of various forms of Boron are used to insure the spent fuel can't go critical. Why? Because the shit is being packed too closely together. A matter of construction economy I'd guess. Stupid bastards.

There's an easier, better and safer way to do nuclear power without all this horseshit. China and India are investing heavily and are already ahead of us in this. One of our Jackhole Rethuglicunt POTUS, either Nixon or Reagan cancelled our program IIRC.

But why bother? Public opinion is absolutely fucked when it comes to any reason and rationality regarding nuclear power as to make any attempt completely unprofitable and therefore out of the question. Umerca takes another irrational one right up the ass. :) BWRs and PWRs were our first and worst attempt at commercial nuclear power. They should all be decommissioned. Burn coal and hasten ed's ocean-front property dream! :)
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Not great.

Not terrible.

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Re: Fukushima one year on

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I live to serve. :)
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Not Fuku, but I'll put it here:
Russia to set up nuclear power plants in Rwanda

As Russia aims to build closer ties with Africa, Rwanda signs off on a deal to advance the use of nuclear energy with the help of Russian expertise.

On the eve of the Russia-Africa summit in Sochi this week, Rwandan officials approved a deal with Russia to advance the use of nuclear energy.

The deal was first signed last December in Moscow, which was the roadmap for the Inter-Governmental Agreement on the use of nuclear energy.

Finally, the Russian state-owned Rosatom Global nuclear company reached an agreement in May to set up the nuclear plant by 2024.

Based on the agreement, a Centre for Nuclear Science and Technology and a nuclear power plant in Rwanda will be built in Kigali by Russian scientists. This will facilitate experiments and scientific research.

The agreement underpins the legal cornerstone for extensive collaboration between Rwanda and Russia in terms of the construction projects.

It outlines a legal basis for interaction between Rwanda and Russia in a number of fields including the regulation of nuclear safety, the development of nuclear infrastructure in line with international requirements, training and development of specialists for the nuclear industry, supervision of the accounting and control of nuclear and radiation materials and radioactive waste.
https://www.trtworld.com/africa/russia- ... anda-30785
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Next to the Kigali Genocide Memorial.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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sparks wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:28 am There's an easier, better and safer way to do nuclear power without all this horseshit.
Of course, and Canada has nothing but CANDU reactors, which require no fuel refinement to work, can be refueled while running, and can't melt down or explode. They also can't be used to make weapons, and are really fucking cool.

But even those reactors create dangerous waste, which of course has not been dealt with at all.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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Nobody has come up with any solution to spent fuel, and nobody has any solution for a reactor that has a meltdown. There actually isn't any way to deal with a melted reactor core. Or a spent fuel pond that suffers a disaster.

You might think such critical issues would be dealt with in advance, but that isn't the case at all.

It's the same for a reactor disaster. The planning for it was all theoretical, no test were ever done. And nobody ever had any plan or equipment ready for when it happens. Still don't.

Even a relatively minor disaster (Three Mile Island) they had no plan on what to do. Since the small amount of melted fuel was still in the reactor, after a very long time they managed to move the dangerous material elsewhere, but they don't know how to clean up the building. They just keep putting it off.

That is pretty much the plan. Just cover it up, try to keep it safe, and hope nothing ever happens for the next thousand years, and hope and pray that shit never ever gets into the water or air.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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First.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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sparks wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:58 am " TMI-2 has been defueled and decontaminated to the extent the plant is in a safe, inherently stable condition suitable for long-term management."

I'd hardly call that "avoided doing anything to deal with it since 1979."
Nothing has been done to "clean up" the building.
Dismantling the plant this way will take anywhere from 8 to 10 years.[50] The second option Exelon could take is the long-term storage, which involves mothballing the plant and letting the radiation decay for up to 60 years on its own to a harmless level before completely dismantling the buildings. The advantage to the long term storage is the lack of radiation when the dismantlement would begin but the disadvantage would be the possible lack of qualified workers at the time of dismantlement. Exelon would also have to pay for limited maintenance and security of the plant over the potential sixty years.[50] The entirety of the spent fuel will be moved to the Londonderry Township facility, which is another process that could take decades to complete.[48]

About 70 legislators signed the industry-inspired Nuclear Caucus but made no financial commitments.[49]

In April 2019, Exelon stated it would cost $1.2 billion over nearly 60 years to completely decommission Unit 1.[51] Unit 1 closed on September 20, 2019.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mil ... on#Closure

That's for the non radioactive ruined reactor building.
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