Fukushima one year on

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robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:54 am

ed wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:17 pm
Build a honkin big cofferdam around the whole thing and fill it with concrete.
Out of sight, out of mind
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ed
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by ed » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:36 am

Like so much else in life.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:05 pm

Hey ed!

Why not just dig a really really really big hole, dump the waste, and pour molten lead on top?

East peasy all fixed :p
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:56 am

It has been suggested, to get rid of radioactive garbage, to dump it where a continental plate slides under another one.

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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Fid » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:57 pm

Hello person, ocean, ecosystem we were told to put this radioactive mess here. Is it in fact true this is the place (consults paperwork) the sun don't shine?
"Try SCE to AUX."
Yeah, me and an electrified atmosphere ain't friends.

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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:34 am

There are huge problems with actually making that happen.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:35 am

Similar problems were found in just transporting radioactive spent fuel to the mountain. Then it was discovered the mountain wasn't going to work as well.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:37 am

"More than 30 million highly radioactive spent nuclear fuel rods are submerged in vulnerable storage pools all over the country"

https://ips-dc.org/expert_cautions_that ... _disaster/

And that is just the US

Worldwide, the amount of extremely dangerous fuel rods is frankly, un the fuck believable
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:41 am

Since spent fuel rods still produce heat, and can fission (when the control rods are removed), why do they stop using them in a reactor? Why remove them?

Lots of energy still in them.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:28 am

Spent fuel rods produce heat because of the continuing radioactive decay of fission products. And since our reactors only 'burn' about 5% of the U235 before the rods are poisoned by fission products, this makes a sustainable chain reaction in spent fuel very difficult indeed in spite of all the unused, essentially wasted, fuel that remains in the rods.

So, decay heat yes. Lots of reactivity available in spent fuel? No. That's why spent fuel rods have to be removed from the reactor. Please keep in mind the balance that has to be maintained here and how badly fission products fuck with that balance in a detrimental way. That's not to say that there isn't some reactivity still available in spent fuel. To insure spent fuel behaves itself in some spent fuel pools, 'control rods' consisting of various forms of Boron are used to insure the spent fuel can't go critical. Why? Because the shit is being packed too closely together. A matter of construction economy I'd guess. Stupid bastards.

There's an easier, better and safer way to do nuclear power without all this horseshit. China and India are investing heavily and are already ahead of us in this. One of our Jackhole Rethuglicunt POTUS, either Nixon or Reagan cancelled our program IIRC.

But why bother? Public opinion is absolutely fucked when it comes to any reason and rationality regarding nuclear power as to make any attempt completely unprofitable and therefore out of the question. Umerca takes another irrational one right up the ass. :) BWRs and PWRs were our first and worst attempt at commercial nuclear power. They should all be decommissioned. Burn coal and hasten ed's ocean-front property dream! :)
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Doctor X » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:01 am

Not great.

Not terrible.

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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:13 pm

I live to serve. :)
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:29 pm

Not Fuku, but I'll put it here:
Russia to set up nuclear power plants in Rwanda

As Russia aims to build closer ties with Africa, Rwanda signs off on a deal to advance the use of nuclear energy with the help of Russian expertise.

On the eve of the Russia-Africa summit in Sochi this week, Rwandan officials approved a deal with Russia to advance the use of nuclear energy.

The deal was first signed last December in Moscow, which was the roadmap for the Inter-Governmental Agreement on the use of nuclear energy.

Finally, the Russian state-owned Rosatom Global nuclear company reached an agreement in May to set up the nuclear plant by 2024.

Based on the agreement, a Centre for Nuclear Science and Technology and a nuclear power plant in Rwanda will be built in Kigali by Russian scientists. This will facilitate experiments and scientific research.

The agreement underpins the legal cornerstone for extensive collaboration between Rwanda and Russia in terms of the construction projects.

It outlines a legal basis for interaction between Rwanda and Russia in a number of fields including the regulation of nuclear safety, the development of nuclear infrastructure in line with international requirements, training and development of specialists for the nuclear industry, supervision of the accounting and control of nuclear and radiation materials and radioactive waste.
https://www.trtworld.com/africa/russia- ... anda-30785

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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by solely » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:42 pm

Next to the Kigali Genocide Memorial.

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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:55 am

sparks wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:28 am
There's an easier, better and safer way to do nuclear power without all this horseshit.
Of course, and Canada has nothing but CANDU reactors, which require no fuel refinement to work, can be refueled while running, and can't melt down or explode. They also can't be used to make weapons, and are really fucking cool.

But even those reactors create dangerous waste, which of course has not been dealt with at all.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:01 am

Nobody has come up with any solution to spent fuel, and nobody has any solution for a reactor that has a meltdown. There actually isn't any way to deal with a melted reactor core. Or a spent fuel pond that suffers a disaster.

You might think such critical issues would be dealt with in advance, but that isn't the case at all.

It's the same for a reactor disaster. The planning for it was all theoretical, no test were ever done. And nobody ever had any plan or equipment ready for when it happens. Still don't.

Even a relatively minor disaster (Three Mile Island) they had no plan on what to do. Since the small amount of melted fuel was still in the reactor, after a very long time they managed to move the dangerous material elsewhere, but they don't know how to clean up the building. They just keep putting it off.

That is pretty much the plan. Just cover it up, try to keep it safe, and hope nothing ever happens for the next thousand years, and hope and pray that shit never ever gets into the water or air.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:41 am

First.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:42 pm

sparks wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:58 am
" TMI-2 has been defueled and decontaminated to the extent the plant is in a safe, inherently stable condition suitable for long-term management."

I'd hardly call that "avoided doing anything to deal with it since 1979."
Nothing has been done to "clean up" the building.
Dismantling the plant this way will take anywhere from 8 to 10 years.[50] The second option Exelon could take is the long-term storage, which involves mothballing the plant and letting the radiation decay for up to 60 years on its own to a harmless level before completely dismantling the buildings. The advantage to the long term storage is the lack of radiation when the dismantlement would begin but the disadvantage would be the possible lack of qualified workers at the time of dismantlement. Exelon would also have to pay for limited maintenance and security of the plant over the potential sixty years.[50] The entirety of the spent fuel will be moved to the Londonderry Township facility, which is another process that could take decades to complete.[48]

About 70 legislators signed the industry-inspired Nuclear Caucus but made no financial commitments.[49]

In April 2019, Exelon stated it would cost $1.2 billion over nearly 60 years to completely decommission Unit 1.[51] Unit 1 closed on September 20, 2019.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mil ... on#Closure

That's for the non radioactive ruined reactor building.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:51 pm

The grim truth is, and this is factual, not assumption, the grim truth is nobody actually knows how to "fix" a meltdown. Or clean up a building/reactor after it happens.

The Windscale reactor, which burned and melted down 10 October 1957, hasn't been cleaned up. And there is no current way to do so. They have talked about trying to remove the remaining core material, but nothing is available online about that.

The stark reality is that no building with a reactor meltdown has ever been cleaned up. And nobody knows how to do so. All of them are still exactly where they were when the disaster happened. Or somewhere near where it happened.

This reality bothers nuclear cheerleaders, but they will stop thinking about it in minutes after reading this. Or they might try and counter with something. Let me know how that works out.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:55 pm

The reason I wrote "The stark reality is that no building with a reactor meltdown has ever been cleaned up", is that they did remove the melted fuel from TMI 2 eventually. Or so they say. None of the melted fuel escaped the reactor vessel, except for the fuel that was found in the plumbing, outside containment, but it will eventually cool down so that it can be removed, to somewhere.

Nuclear cleanup means moving the dangerous material somewhere else. Cleaning up the building means taking it apart and moving it somewhere else. There is no actual plan on where to put this shit that would be considered safe in the long term.

But no building has been moved somewhere else yet. And you won't see this done in your lifetime.
You never know what's going to happen, then some shit happens nobody saw coming, then later somebody says they knew it was coming, then some new shit happens nobody saw coming, rinse and repeat