## Fukushima one year on

We are the Borg.
robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

ed wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:17 pm Build a honkin big cofferdam around the whole thing and fill it with concrete.
Out of sight, out of mind
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ed
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Like so much else in life.
This space for let
Witness
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

It has been suggested, to get rid of radioactive garbage, to dump it where a continental plate slides under another one.
Fid
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Hello person, ocean, ecosystem we were told to put this radioactive mess here. Is it in fact true this is the place (consults paperwork) the sun don't shine?
... The stars were suns, but so far away they were just little points of light ... The scale of the universe suddenly opened up to me. It was a kind of religious experience. There was a magnificence to it, a grandeur, a scale which has never left me. Never ever left me.
Carl Sagan
robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

There are huge problems with actually making that happen.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Similar problems were found in just transporting radioactive spent fuel to the mountain. Then it was discovered the mountain wasn't going to work as well.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

"More than 30 million highly radioactive spent nuclear fuel rods are submerged in vulnerable storage pools all over the country"

https://ips-dc.org/expert_cautions_that ... _disaster/

And that is just the US

Worldwide, the amount of extremely dangerous fuel rods is frankly, un the fuck believable
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Since spent fuel rods still produce heat, and can fission (when the control rods are removed), why do they stop using them in a reactor? Why remove them?

Lots of energy still in them.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
sparks
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Spent fuel rods produce heat because of the continuing radioactive decay of fission products. And since our reactors only 'burn' about 5% of the U235 before the rods are poisoned by fission products, this makes a sustainable chain reaction in spent fuel very difficult indeed in spite of all the unused, essentially wasted, fuel that remains in the rods.

So, decay heat yes. Lots of reactivity available in spent fuel? No. That's why spent fuel rods have to be removed from the reactor. Please keep in mind the balance that has to be maintained here and how badly fission products fuck with that balance in a detrimental way. That's not to say that there isn't some reactivity still available in spent fuel. To insure spent fuel behaves itself in some spent fuel pools, 'control rods' consisting of various forms of Boron are used to insure the spent fuel can't go critical. Why? Because the shit is being packed too closely together. A matter of construction economy I'd guess. Stupid bastards.

There's an easier, better and safer way to do nuclear power without all this horseshit. China and India are investing heavily and are already ahead of us in this. One of our Jackhole Rethuglicunt POTUS, either Nixon or Reagan cancelled our program IIRC.

But why bother? Public opinion is absolutely fucked when it comes to any reason and rationality regarding nuclear power as to make any attempt completely unprofitable and therefore out of the question. Umerca takes another irrational one right up the ass. BWRs and PWRs were our first and worst attempt at commercial nuclear power. They should all be decommissioned. Burn coal and hasten ed's ocean-front property dream!
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Doctor X
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Not great.

Not terrible.

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sparks
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

I live to serve.
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Witness
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Not Fuku, but I'll put it here:
Russia to set up nuclear power plants in Rwanda

As Russia aims to build closer ties with Africa, Rwanda signs off on a deal to advance the use of nuclear energy with the help of Russian expertise.

On the eve of the Russia-Africa summit in Sochi this week, Rwandan officials approved a deal with Russia to advance the use of nuclear energy.

The deal was first signed last December in Moscow, which was the roadmap for the Inter-Governmental Agreement on the use of nuclear energy.

Finally, the Russian state-owned Rosatom Global nuclear company reached an agreement in May to set up the nuclear plant by 2024.

Based on the agreement, a Centre for Nuclear Science and Technology and a nuclear power plant in Rwanda will be built in Kigali by Russian scientists. This will facilitate experiments and scientific research.

The agreement underpins the legal cornerstone for extensive collaboration between Rwanda and Russia in terms of the construction projects.

It outlines a legal basis for interaction between Rwanda and Russia in a number of fields including the regulation of nuclear safety, the development of nuclear infrastructure in line with international requirements, training and development of specialists for the nuclear industry, supervision of the accounting and control of nuclear and radiation materials and radioactive waste.
https://www.trtworld.com/africa/russia- ... anda-30785
solely
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Next to the Kigali Genocide Memorial.
robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

sparks wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:28 am There's an easier, better and safer way to do nuclear power without all this horseshit.
Of course, and Canada has nothing but CANDU reactors, which require no fuel refinement to work, can be refueled while running, and can't melt down or explode. They also can't be used to make weapons, and are really fucking cool.

But even those reactors create dangerous waste, which of course has not been dealt with at all.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Nobody has come up with any solution to spent fuel, and nobody has any solution for a reactor that has a meltdown. There actually isn't any way to deal with a melted reactor core. Or a spent fuel pond that suffers a disaster.

You might think such critical issues would be dealt with in advance, but that isn't the case at all.

It's the same for a reactor disaster. The planning for it was all theoretical, no test were ever done. And nobody ever had any plan or equipment ready for when it happens. Still don't.

Even a relatively minor disaster (Three Mile Island) they had no plan on what to do. Since the small amount of melted fuel was still in the reactor, after a very long time they managed to move the dangerous material elsewhere, but they don't know how to clean up the building. They just keep putting it off.

That is pretty much the plan. Just cover it up, try to keep it safe, and hope nothing ever happens for the next thousand years, and hope and pray that shit never ever gets into the water or air.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
sparks
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

First.
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robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

sparks wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:58 am " TMI-2 has been defueled and decontaminated to the extent the plant is in a safe, inherently stable condition suitable for long-term management."

I'd hardly call that "avoided doing anything to deal with it since 1979."
Nothing has been done to "clean up" the building.
Dismantling the plant this way will take anywhere from 8 to 10 years.[50] The second option Exelon could take is the long-term storage, which involves mothballing the plant and letting the radiation decay for up to 60 years on its own to a harmless level before completely dismantling the buildings. The advantage to the long term storage is the lack of radiation when the dismantlement would begin but the disadvantage would be the possible lack of qualified workers at the time of dismantlement. Exelon would also have to pay for limited maintenance and security of the plant over the potential sixty years.[50] The entirety of the spent fuel will be moved to the Londonderry Township facility, which is another process that could take decades to complete.[48]

About 70 legislators signed the industry-inspired Nuclear Caucus but made no financial commitments.[49]

In April 2019, Exelon stated it would cost $1.2 billion over nearly 60 years to completely decommission Unit 1.[51] Unit 1 closed on September 20, 2019. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mil ... on#Closure That's for the non radioactive ruined reactor building. still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris robinson Posts: 12253 Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am Title: Pretty much dead already Location: USA ### Re: Fukushima one year on The grim truth is, and this is factual, not assumption, the grim truth is nobody actually knows how to "fix" a meltdown. Or clean up a building/reactor after it happens. The Windscale reactor, which burned and melted down 10 October 1957, hasn't been cleaned up. And there is no current way to do so. They have talked about trying to remove the remaining core material, but nothing is available online about that. The stark reality is that no building with a reactor meltdown has ever been cleaned up. And nobody knows how to do so. All of them are still exactly where they were when the disaster happened. Or somewhere near where it happened. This reality bothers nuclear cheerleaders, but they will stop thinking about it in minutes after reading this. Or they might try and counter with something. Let me know how that works out. still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris robinson Posts: 12253 Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am Title: Pretty much dead already Location: USA ### Re: Fukushima one year on The reason I wrote "The stark reality is that no building with a reactor meltdown has ever been cleaned up", is that they did remove the melted fuel from TMI 2 eventually. Or so they say. None of the melted fuel escaped the reactor vessel, except for the fuel that was found in the plumbing, outside containment, but it will eventually cool down so that it can be removed, to somewhere. Nuclear cleanup means moving the dangerous material somewhere else. Cleaning up the building means taking it apart and moving it somewhere else. There is no actual plan on where to put this shit that would be considered safe in the long term. But no building has been moved somewhere else yet. And you won't see this done in your lifetime. still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris sparks Posts: 17024 Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over! ### Re: Fukushima one year on "That's for the non radioactive ruined reactor building." If non-radioactive, then how's it ruined? Windscale: Shitty design all for the sake of weapons grade plutonium. Operator error as well. And now what's left of it (those pieces which couldn't be properly shielded and hauled away) is a fucking radioactive slag-heap. Shit happens all the time. Meh. You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think. robinson Posts: 12253 Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am Title: Pretty much dead already Location: USA ### Re: Fukushima one year on sparks wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:41 pm "That's for the non radioactive ruined reactor building." If non-radioactive, then how's it ruined? It was ruined by economics. Once they shut the reactor down, which they did, it's never going to run again. This is TMI 1 robinson wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:42 pm That's for the non radioactive ruined reactor building. TMI 2 is the one with the metldown. still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris robinson Posts: 12253 Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am Title: Pretty much dead already Location: USA ### Re: Fukushima one year on Idiot still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris Rob Lister Posts: 23325 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Fukushima one year on At some point, you're going to realize that you have more than sufficient number of characters to do all your silly ramblings in one post. I'm too old to care but all your ramblings are for naught. Nuclear is the only solution. sparks Posts: 17024 Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over! ### Re: Fukushima one year on Dipshit said: "It was ruined by economics. Once they shut the reactor down, which they did, it's never going to run again. This is TMI 1 " Granted. In future, you may want to communicate a bit more specifically so as to avoid a "Failure To Communicate". And fuck you too jizz hound. You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think. robinson Posts: 12253 Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am Title: Pretty much dead already Location: USA ### Re: Fukushima one year on sparks wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:41 pm Shit happens all the time. Meh. The 2015 Gold King Mine waste water spill was an environmental disaster that began at the Gold King Mine near Silverton, Colorado,[2] when Environmental Protection Agency personnel, along with workers for Environmental Restoration LLC (a Missouri company under EPA contract to mitigate pollutants from the closed mine), caused the release of toxic waste water into the Animas River watershed. They caused the accident while attempting to drain ponded water near the entrance of the mine on August 5.[3] After the spill, the Silverton Board of Trustees and the San Juan County Commission approved a joint resolution seeking Superfund money.[4] Contractors accidentally destroyed the plug holding water trapped inside the mine, which caused an overflow of the pond, spilling three million US gallons (eleven thousand cubic metres) of mine waste water and tailings, including heavy metals such as cadmium and lead, and other toxic elements, such as arsenic,[5] beryllium,[5] zinc,[5] iron[5] and copper[5] into Cement Creek, a tributary of the Animas River and part of the San Juan River and Colorado River watershed.[6] The EPA was criticized for not warning Colorado and New Mexico about the operation until the day after the waste water spilled, despite the fact the EPA employee "in charge of Gold King Mine knew of blowout risk."[7] The EPA has taken responsibility for the incident, but refused to pay for any damages claims filed after the accident on grounds of sovereign immunity, pending special authorization from Congress or re-filing of lawsuits in federal court.[8] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Gold_King_Mine_waste_water_spill still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris Witness Posts: 33073 Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm ### Re: Fukushima one year on Fukushima to be reborn as$2.7bn wind and solar power hub

Twenty-one plants and new power grid to supply Tokyo metropolitan area

TOKYO -- Japan's northeastern prefecture of Fukushima, devastated during the 2011 earthquake and nuclear disaster, is looking to transform itself into a renewable energy hub, Nikkei has learned.

A plan is under way to develop 11 solar power plants and 10 wind power plants in the prefecture, on farmlands that cannot be cultivated anymore and mountainous areas from where population outflows continue.

The total cost is expected to be in the ballpark of 300 billion yen, or $2.75 billion, until the fiscal year ending in March 2024. The government-owned Development Bank of Japan and private lender Mizuho Bank are among a group of financiers that have prepared a line of credit to support part of the construction cost. The power generation available is estimated to be about 600 megawatts, or equivalent to two-thirds of a nuclear power plant. The produced electricity will be sent to the Tokyo metropolitan area. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Energy ... -power-hub robinson Posts: 12253 Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am Title: Pretty much dead already Location: USA ### Re: Fukushima one year on The good news is clear enough. No matter what happens to a solar farm or a wind mill, it doesn't make your homeland uninhabitable for pretty much forever. still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris sparks Posts: 17024 Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over! ### Re: Fukushima one year on Wind farms cause cancer. Trump said so. You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think. sparks Posts: 17024 Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over! ### Re: Fukushima one year on https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... ancer-cla/ Nothing much, just blowing more smoke out his ass. You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think. Witness Posts: 33073 Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm ### Re: Fukushima one year on Climate Change Is Breaking Open America's Nuclear Tomb The Marshall Islands say that plutonium is leaking into the Pacific Ocean from the concrete dome the U.S. built to dispose of nuclear waste. During the Cold War, the United States nuked the Marshall Islands 67 times. After it finished nuking the islands, the Pentagon dropped biological weapons on the islands. Once the U.S. was finished, it scooped the irradiated and ruined soil from the islands, poured it into a crater left behind from a nuclear detonation, mixed it all with concrete, and covered the whole thing in a concrete dome. They called it “The Tomb.” According to a report from The Los Angeles Times, climate change is breaking that dome open. Rising sea levels and temperatures are cracking open The Tomb, threatening to spill nuclear waste into the Pacific Ocean. ... The U.S. has largely dismissed its responsibility to the Marshall Islands. It relocated many of its people and claims the cost of relocation and installation of The Tomb at the Enewetak Atoll covers its liability. As sea levels and temperatures rise, however, the Tomb is cracking. As it cracks, water rushes over it, leaching out plutonium and dumping it into the sea. The U.S. has said The Tomb is now the Marshall Islands’ responsibility. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3kxm ... clear-tomb Rob Lister Posts: 23325 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Fukushima one year on Rob Lister Posts: 23325 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Fukushima one year on Abdul Alhazred wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:04 pm What's breaking open America's nuclear tomb is that it was slapped together in a hurry in the first place to make certain troublemakers shut up about it. So without trying to refute climate change in general, I call bullshit. What we see is some folks trying to avoid responsibility and make political hay about something the needs to be fixed quickly, separate from whatever must be done about climate change. It's kind of a weird situation but we're paying ~$75m a year continuously in what amounts to reparations for deeds not really done. I think the danger of leakage approaches zero for the next 500 or so years. Were the dome to completely crack, the worst that could happen is that the nastiness in it would leech into the ocean and be so diluted as to be non-substantial. There simply is no there, there. There are no people there. There are fish, and I wish them the best.
robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Rob Lister wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:40 pm Were the dome to completely crack, the worst that could happen is that the nastiness in it would leech into the ocean and be so diluted as to be non-substantial.
This is actually the level of ignorance one encounters when trying to educate about the dangers of fission by products, the extremely dangerous and radioactive materials.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

By this logic, the solution to spent fuel rods is to simply dump them into the oceans.

Meanwhile, at Fukushima they are really trying to not let any of the material reach the ocean.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
sparks
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Wonder if anyone has done an analysis on what's actually there and taken readings on how radioactive it is?

Article says Plutonium is leaching into the ocean. How? This site was a bomb test site, not a reactor test site nor a spent fuel dump site. Just how much of the Plutonium trigger survives the detonation of a hydrogen bomb? Not very damn much I'm guessing. (Will Google and report back)

Then there's this gem: "“It was only a matter of two or three years before women on the island started to give birth to things less than human,” a Marshall Islands woman told diplomats on a fact finding mission decades later. Birth defects are so common on the islands that the people have a number of words to describe them, among them marlins, devils, jellyfish children, and grape babies."

Pretty sure if the Marshallese had been that irradiated, they'd simply have died without reproducing 'jellyfish children and grape babies'. Sounds like Vice is twisting shit for the sake of the fear factor, and of course, the Marshallese don't want to see their little gravy train stop. Ever.
Last edited by sparks on Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sparks
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

No info on how much (if any) Plutonium survives detonation in a Hydrogen bomb. And wildly conflicting info on how much Plutonium an H-bomb starts with. From 2 or 3 kilograms all the way up to 10 times that and beyond.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
Witness
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Wikipedia wrote:Trinity and Fat Man atomic bombs

The first atomic bomb test, codenamed "Trinity" and detonated on July 16, 1945, near Alamogordo, New Mexico, used plutonium as its fissile material.[42] The implosion design of "the gadget", as the Trinity device was code-named, used conventional explosive lenses to compress a sphere of plutonium into a supercritical mass, which was simultaneously showered with neutrons from the "Urchin", an initiator made of polonium and beryllium (neutron source: (α, n) reaction).[31] Together, these ensured a runaway chain reaction and explosion. The overall weapon weighed over 4 tonnes, although it used just 6.2 kg of plutonium in its core.[81] About 20% of the plutonium used in the Trinity weapon underwent fission, resulting in an explosion with an energy equivalent to approximately 20,000 tons of TNT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium for more.
sparks
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Not very efficient, was it? If H-bomb triggers are the same, then every time a bell rings, 5 kilos of plutonium gets blasted into the atmosphere. How much would that leave to dump into a hole on Enewetak?

I have a tough time believing it's significant, but I could be wrong of course.

Now, nuclear reactors like the ones at Fukushima? Totally different fucking story. Not just a few kilos, but tons and tons. Many orders of magnitude of fucked.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
Witness
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Gov't says it is safe to release contaminated Fukushima water into ocean

TOKYO

Japan's industry ministry said Monday it would be safe to release water contaminated by the Fukushima nuclear disaster into the ocean, stressing that the health risk to humans would be "significantly small."

Discharging the water into the Pacific Ocean over the course of a year would lead to between just one-1,600th and one-40,000th of the radiation that humans are naturally exposed to, the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry told a government subcommittee on the issue.

Water used to cool the melted-down cores and groundwater near the crippled plant contains some radioactive materials, and is currently being collected and stored in tanks on the plant grounds.

But space is fast running out, and the government is exploring ways to deal with the water -- already amounting to more than 1 million tons and increasing every day.

According to the ministry, annual radiation levels near the release point is estimated at between 0.052 and 0.62 microsievert at sea and 1.3 microsieverts in the atmosphere, compared with the 2,100 microsieverts that humans come into contact with in daily life.

One member of the subcommittee called on the ministry to provide detailed data showing the impact of different conditions such as ocean currents and weather.

Another member requested more information on the amount of radiation that people would be internally exposed to depending on how much fish and seaweed they consume.
https://japantoday.com/category/nationa ... into-ocean
sparks
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### Re: Fukushima one year on

Skeptical only insofar as this info comes from the government.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.