Fukushima one year on

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sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

He who quotes himself is a fool.

Just how many people have died as a result of Fukushima? Deliver facts or you're full of shit.

More shit in 3...2...1...
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

How many people died because of the Exxon Valdez disaster?

None.

So it wasn't anything to be concerned about.

This is the actual logic of the denier
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

No. The Exxon Valdez fucked an entire ecosystem. And BTW, that's an interesting analogy you pulled up there. If we depended on nuclear more, perhaps that mess of shit with the Exxon Valdez would never have happened.

But again, what has happened to the ecosystem as result of Fukushima? You keep implying that the toll is terrible, yet you provide no evidences. Now, I'm just as alarmed as you are that there are (possibly) most of 3 reactor cores unaccounted for. That is never a good thing and it will be of very serious concern until they are located and re-contained. But I see no reason to cry that the sky is falling when it clearly is not. A measured amount of concern for a measured situation seems in order as opposed to an unending amount of concern and fear, which is the conspiracy theorists actual logic.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Bananas?-Yes »

I will apologize up front that I haven't yet read all pages of this thread, but I feel I can still post because just above I see some folks that want to try and compare Fukushima to other stupid human mistakes. I'm a little surprised smart folks like y'all would be trying to do that.

There cannot be any comparison to any other disaster, because --- Number One: Fukushima is a one of a kind.

Number Two: Folks that have the power to do so have been hiding information whenever they could get away with it, after somebody made the decision that something indeed needed to be covered up.

Number Three: There is a possibility at any time for a major shake to occur under that facility and scatter all that stored water, or any other nasty stuff all over the place and send even nastier stuff up into the air.

And Number Four: They are so many years away from cleaning that place up and they are so far from knowing everything that is wrong inside a few of those structures that there is no way a firm statement can be made that 'Now it is all safe, and will remain so until we are finished cleaning this mess up.'

I had the very sad experience of going up there, folks. It is not a pleasant place on Earth to visit. In fact, my initial intention was not to take a look at that facility itself. I went up for another purpose, but that went way wrong the moment I realized I had no business being there. (It was the second anniversary. The first anniversary I went back to the location where I was with some other folks when the very first shake took place. Very odd story, too, is just about 48 hours before the big shake I had suspected something was going to happen due to a much smaller shake that felt very weird and I posted in the admin section of my own site to my admin/moderator team that something seemed way wrong. We ended up putting that out on the main board.)

Anyway, back to that second anniversary visit up north, it was a very, very sad experience. Equal to only a few I've had in my life. Unfortunately, one I had just recently that was quite the shock. Very, very recently I learned I had actually forgotten what the smell of death is like and I didn't even know I had forgotten that awful smell. I think that was a bigger shock than my visit up to Fukushima.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Bananas?-Yes »

And this won't be the last time we read about this or that change in planning and thinking and getting the job done of fixing the situation.

Japan revises Fukushima cleanup plan, delays key steps

I might be interested in investing in a huge concrete making facility near there, if I were going to be alive for another 10 to 15 years. I suspect that in about 10 to 15 years they will decide to create the largest concrete mountain in history. Might even be a glowing type mountain and a big tourist attraction from way off the coast.

And what was the designation of that big chopper I remember way back that we could put a small clinic under those big four legs and haul that to the field? I honestly can't remember as I type this, but after I post I'll go find out. I believe those were once used for fire fighting, too. Point is, we'll need a really big chopper to dump thousands of "boxes" full of concrete on all the former power plants --- it is a row of four. One huge mountain, for sure.

Wait!!! No chance them pyramid things in that Egypt place might have been ... - - - No, not possible, right?

Actually, the TEPCO Mountain would have to be bigger than any pyramid.

And I remember a lot of those government and TEPCO press conferences back then in those first couple of years when they kept insisting this was not near as bad as Chernobyl. They were sort of right. Going to turn out to be about ten times worse. But I don't think that is what they had in mind.

EDIT: CH54 I think I now remember. You know, these days there might now be one that can haul a heavier payload. But that box configuration might be so easy to use. Fill it up from above and then dump it from underneath. Would need a seriously strong sort of release mechanism underneath. I'm rather sure civilians could use those. I remember that the CH47 was against the law for civilians, but not the Crane -- and that nickname just popped into my old brain. You know, the brain really does start to have problems as one gets older. Can't complain about the chemo, though. It keeps me alive. But there sure are side issues with that stuff.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

One more time and then I'm done with this fucking thread:

"I had actually forgotten what the smell of death is like"

Just what, exactly has died to produce this 'smell of death'?

No bullshit as with Robinson, just the evidences please.

Thanks.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Bananas?-Yes »

I have some living quarters and sort of office I work out of off-and-on and it is a very unusual sort of complex owned by an old family in this city and so we have a very strange arrangement there --- for some background.

Now on the second floor of that building there are two side-by-side apartments and then a second smaller building just to the west of that one which also shares the same balcony and so the stairs; so I and the neighbor between my group of rooms and that smaller building have to pass that smaller apartment any time we go up and down and that fella in that smaller place was very particular in his habits and so if I were to stay there for any length of time I would be able to hear him go down the stairs at the same time every morning and then fire up his motorcycle just next to the stairs and so on. Now there are times I am not there for extended periods, so I am also keeping scant supplies there so as not to let things spoil if I am gone for lengthy periods of time. There is no real pattern to my ins-and-outs there.

So one week when I was in for an extended period of time I started to realize that I wasn't hearing that heavy footsteps going down those metal stairs at the proper time nor no sound of the motorcycle, but I can't say as it really bothered me. Folks living in that compound are not exactly the normal types, if I can be rough with the description of the mixed group we have spread out there over a few acres. It is a strange place and the rest of the city folks around there look upon us inside that place as to be wary of. And we certainly don't have social gatherings around there and don't really know much about each other, which is why it is used by some odd folks, like me. We greet each other politely but curtly, if the need arises; and no small talk except maybe weather related and very short. I didn't know that fella in that smaller group of rooms to the west, except he kept his car and motorcycle in good condition and kept the area around his door clean. It is an oddly large type of balcony arrangement --- only two floors in all the many buildings --- some other buildings I notice the residents get messy. We don't have that problem in that building or that smaller one just to the west. He seemed an okay fella. Sort of like y'all here in this Community.

Anyway, maybe three or four days after that no-normal-sounds (the buildings are very old built style [50 - 60 yrs old] of wood and easy to hear those with a heavy walking style) of that fella going in and out I needed to go get some supplies and when I came back about 2000hrs or so (getting on dark) I came through the complex and around the corner of another building and I see a whole mess of medics on the second floor of that smaller building where the motorcycle guy lived and a few law enforcement folks and down on the ground floor at the bottom of the stairs and eventually when I identified myself as the last resident down the balcony to the east they let me up the steps and to my place and I would say about halfway up, or two-thirds up, the steps that horrible smell hit me and, of course, it was worse and worse as I rounded that railing edge and passed that fella's door and then I knew right away he'd been dead in there for a few days and I also realized I had completely forgotten that smell from way, way back in my earlier days.

That is not the kind of smell one easily forgets if they are unfortunate to have to smell it. And I remember when I was much younger I did not forget it even years later and honestly thought I would never forget it and I found out not too long ago I was wrong. And being reminded of that smell was a very unpleasant experience.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

sparks wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:31 pm One more time and then I'm done with this fucking thread:
No, you will never be done with it. Just like Japan will never be done with the Fukushima disaster.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Rob Lister »

Bananas?-Yes wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:22 am I have some living quarters and sort of office I work out of off-and-on and it is a very unusual sort of complex owned by an old family in this city and so we have a very strange arrangement there --- for some background.

Now on the second floor of that building there are two side-by-side
apartments and then a second smaller building just to the west of that one which also shares the same balcony and so the stairs; so I and the neighbor between my group of rooms and that smaller building have to pass that smaller apartment any time we go up and down and that fella in that smaller place was very particular in his habits and so if I were to stay there for any length of time I would be able to hear him go down the stairs at the same time every morning and then fire up his motorcycle just next to the stairs and so on. Now there are times I am not there for extended periods, so I am also keeping scant supplies there so as not to let things spoil if I am gone for lengthy periods of time. There is no real pattern to my ins-and-outs there.

So one week when I was in for an extended period of time I started to realize that I wasn't hearing that heavy footsteps going down those
metal stairs at the proper time nor no sound of the motorcycle, but I can't say as it really bothered me. Folks living in that compound are not exactly the normal types, if I can be rough with the description of the mixed group we have spread out there over a few acres. It is a strange place and the rest of the city folks around there look upon us inside that place as to be wary of. And we certainly don't have social gatherings around there and don't really know much about each other, which is why it is used by some odd folks, like me. We greet each other politely but curtly, if the need arises; and no small talk except maybe weather related and very short. I didn't know that fella in that smaller group of rooms to the west, except he kept his car and motorcycle in good condition and kept the area around his door clean. It is an oddly large type of balcony arrangement --- only two floors in all the many buildings --- some other buildings I notice the residents get messy. We don't have that problem in that building or that smaller one just to the west. He seemed an okay fella. Sort of like y'all here in this Community.

Anyway, maybe three or four days after that no-normal-sounds (the buildings are very old built style [50 - 60 yrs old] of wood and easy to hear those with a heavy walking style) of that fella going in and
out I needed to go get some supplies and when I came back about 2000hrs or so (getting on dark) I came through the complex and around the corner of another building and I see a whole mess of medics on the second floor of that smaller building where the motorcycle guy lived and a few law enforcement folks and down on the ground floor at the bottom of the stairs and eventually when I identified myself as the last resident down the balcony to the east they let me up the steps and to my place and I would say about halfway up, or two-thirds up, the steps that horrible smell hit me and, of course, it was worse and worse as I rounded that railing edge and passed that fella's door and then I knew right away he'd been dead in there for a few days and I also realized I had completely forgotten that smell from way, way back in my earlier days.

That is not the kind of smell one easily forgets if they are unfortunate to have to smell it. And I remember when I was much younger I did not forget it even years later and honestly thought
I would never forget it and I found out not too long ago I was wrong. And being reminded of that smell was a very unpleasant experience.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

And the coroners report said?

I rather doubt it was radiation sickness and therefore had fuck all to do with Fukushima.

But by all means, continue to conflate things when you post here because it's awfully amusing in a troll-like sort of way. :)
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by ed »

Wow
This space for let
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness »

Removal of spent nuclear fuel at Fukushima No. 1 delayed up to five years

The government decided Friday to delay the removal of spent fuel from the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant’s Nos. 1 and 2 reactors by up to five years, casting doubt on whether it can stick to its time frame for dismantling the crippled complex.

The process of removing the spent fuel from the units’ pools had previously been scheduled to begin in fiscal 2023.

In its latest decommissioning plan, the government said the plant’s operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company Holdings Inc., will not begin the roughly two-year process at the No. 1 unit at least until fiscal 2027 and may wait until fiscal 2028.

Work at the No. 2 unit is now slated to start between fiscal 2024 and fiscal 2026, it said.

The delay is necessary to take further safety precautions, such as the construction of an enclosure around the No. 1 unit to prevent the spread of radioactive dust and the decontamination of the No. 2 unit, the government said. It is the fourth time it has revised its schedule for removing the spent fuel rods.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/ ... gptenBhCUk

Seems a tad tricky, uh?
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Shouldn't be. All they're trying to do is unburden the spent fuel rod pools. Wonder where the hell they're planning to send all those used fuel rods?

The melted reactor core(s) material is a whole other real fucking tricky ball game. If they knew for certain it hadn't gone through the bottom of the plant(s) and into the earth beneath, it'd be easy enough just to encase the mess of shit in concrete. Not such a good idea until they know where it all is and what its condition is.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

sparks wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:46 pm All they're trying to do is unburden the spent fuel rod pools.
Hahahahahaha





























Ha!

























Goddamn you are ignorant. Is it willful? Or real ignorance?
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness »

Witness wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:35 am
Climate Change Is Breaking Open America's Nuclear Tomb
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3kxm ... clear-tomb
Update:
US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

The US Congress has demanded an investigation into a concrete dome full of nuclear waste, threatened by rising sea levels in the Marshall Islands.

Dubbed "the tomb", it holds tonnes of radioactive debris from dozens of US atomic bomb tests carried out during the Cold War.

Congress wants the Department of Energy to report back on the state of the ageing Runit Dome within six months.

The demand is part of a huge defence bill approved by President Trump.

More than 40 nuclear weapons tests took place on or near the Enewetak Atoll in the Pacific between 1946 and 1958, including a bomb test on Runit Island.

The crater from that blast was used from the 1970s by the Defense Nuclear Agency to store nuclear waste. It was later covered in thick concrete slabs to form the 377ft (115 metre) protective dome.

There are concerns that the structure is deteriorating and could be vulnerable to sea-level rise caused by climate change.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50951981
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

robinson wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:04 am
sparks wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:46 pm All they're trying to do is unburden the spent fuel rod pools.
Hahahahahaha





























Ha!

























Goddamn you are ignorant. Is it willful? Or real ignorance?
Go yuck yourself troll.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

robinson wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:19 am
sparks wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:31 pm One more time and then I'm done with this fucking thread:
No, you will never be done with it. Just like Japan will never be done with the Fukushima disaster.
:knock:
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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About that measles endemic.

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Re: Fukushima one year on

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I will just put this これ. . . .

– J.D.
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"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Yea, since none of the Fukushima reactors exploded like Chernobyl (you did not see graphite!!!), the surrounding area is significantly radiologically cleaner.

Inside the reactor buildings is fucked of course, but one expects this with a melt through.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Doctor X »

So not great, not terrible?

– J.D.
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"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Yep. Not great, but not as terrible as most anti nuke nuts make out.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness »

Like Tchernobyl:
Animal life thriving around Fukushima

Nearly a decade after the nuclear accident in Fukushima, Japan, researchers from the University of Georgia have found that wildlife populations are abundant in areas void of human life.

The camera study, published in the Journal of Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment, reports that over 267,000 wildlife photos recorded more than 20 species, including wild boar, Japanese hare, macaques, pheasant, fox and the raccoon dog -- a relative of the fox -- in various areas of the landscape.

UGA wildlife biologist James Beasley said speculation and questions have come from both the scientific community and the general public about the status of wildlife years after a nuclear accident like those in Chernobyl and Fukushima.

This recent study, in addition to the team's research in Chernobyl, provides answers to the questions.

"Our results represent the first evidence that numerous species of wildlife are now abundant throughout the Fukushima Evacuation Zone, despite the presence of radiological contamination," said Beasley, associate professor at the Savannah River Ecology Laboratory and the Warnell School of Forestry and Natural Resources.

Species that are often in conflict with humans, particularly wild boar, were predominantly captured on camera in human-evacuated areas or zones, according to Beasley.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 124336.htm
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Reactor three, the one that used MOX fuel (plutonium mix, not just uranium), is proving to be a real problem child.

Since starting in October 2019, they have managed to move 35 fuel assemblies, all of which are unused fuel. They haven't even started on the 535 spent fuel assemblies.

That it's going to take decades just to remove fuel rods in the cooling ponds, one can see how fucked the situation actually is.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Speaking of ....


because the cooling ponds in almost all older reactors are too full of spent fuel (because there isn't anywhere to move it to still), the spent fuel is packed way too close for safety. So they use neutron absorbing shields around them, so they can pack the spent fuel far closer than it should be.

This is a known danger all over the world.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

And how many have died?
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Re: Fukushima one year on

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sparks wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:31 pm One more time and then I'm done with this fucking thread:
Nope. Just like Japan will never be done with Fukushima
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

In April 2019 they started moving fuel rods from Unit 3

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/15/asia/jap ... index.html

In 9 months they managed to move 35 assemblies, of new fuel, unirradiated assembles. But not a single spent fuel rod.


Spent fuel: 0 / 514
Unirradiated (New) fuel: 35 / 52

https://www7.tepco.co.jp/responsibility ... it3-e.html
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

It gives an idea of just how bad it actually is there.

In 9 years they have managed to move zero spent fuel assemblies

These fuel rods are a danger, and they just can't seem to move them elsewhere.

The really dangerous shit, sitting somewhere beneath, they have no plans to move at all. Nobody has ever moved any melted fuel from a complete core meltdown. Ever.

And with out a doubt it will not happen in your lifetime, or your kids lifetime.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Eventually the radioactivity will fade.

Just give it 10,000 years. :)
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

The radio-cesium has a half life of around 30 years, so a lot of the really dangerous shit will only be half as bad in another 20 years. Which is about the time they will finish moving the fuel rods from the cooling pools.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

There's some plutonium in the spent fuel. That shit has a 24,000 year half life, IIRC.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Bah! Plutonium is not dangerous

Remember, nobody died
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

If you use the metric of "but nobody died", then plutonium is 100% safe. It's true. Nobody has ever died from exposure to Plutonium.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
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Witness
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness »

robinson wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 pm Nobody has ever died from exposure to Plutonium.
Wrong: Demon core.
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sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Yep. Let's not forget that it's not only highly radioactive, but it's chemical toxicity is unrivaled. Except perhaps by ed, when he's in one of his 'smoting' moods. :)
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
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robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Witness wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:42 pm
robinson wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 pm Nobody has ever died from exposure to Plutonium.
Wrong: Demon core.
Nobody touched the plutonium, breathed in any dust from it, had any physical contact with it. It was the neutron radiation that was the danger.

One could claim wood killed people, when it was the fire that did the damage.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness »

robinson wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:50 am
Witness wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:42 pm
robinson wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 pm Nobody has ever died from exposure to Plutonium.
Wrong: Demon core.
Nobody touched the plutonium, breathed in any dust from it, had any physical contact with it. It was the neutron radiation that was the danger.

One could claim wood killed people, when it was the fire that did the damage.
Aha, ye olde Scotsman!

Image
Nobody touched the sun, breathed in any gas from it, had any physical contact with it. It was the light radiation that was the danger.
FTFY.
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sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

I think we should call it the "Robinson's No True Nuetron" fallacy... :)
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
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robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Witness wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:24 pm FTFY.
No, you didn't. You just posted more stupid shit.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris