Humans Need Not Apply

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DrMatt
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by DrMatt » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:16 pm

The engineering work I do could probably be done by an advanced AI. But it's no more than 5% of the job that pays my bills. The rest is human-to-human coordination and joint decision-making. At the moment, the 5% engineering is the part that makes me not fungible (it's the cleverness, stupid!), but diplomacy, mentoring, and other human skills are coming right up there, as hacker culture clashes increasingly with the rest of the human world.

As we make it possible for people to be more productive, working hours for the same pay should start to decline.
In the short run, market doctrine tends against that; but in the middle-to-long run, it's a no-brainer: rather than creating unemployment, innovation will create a steady market for the fruits of innovation, especially the leisure fruits.

Anybody who builds a device that violates the First Law, though, will have to be quarantined, along with the device.
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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:31 pm

DrMatt wrote: ... The rest is human-to-human coordination and joint decision-making. ...
In other words, overcoming the inefficiency caused by having humans in the mix.
... diplomacy, mentoring, and other human skills ...
See above.
... As we make it possible for people to be more productive, working hours for the same pay should start to decline.
Sure. And when the working hours go to zero, being paid just for existing using wealth created by robots. Right?

Which is great if you're the kind of person who can compose music or something, while the ordinary zhlubs are having virtual sex in the holodeck.

I wonder if this guy likes classical music?

Image
... market doctrine ...

Pfft! For humans by humans.
... Anybody who builds a device that violates the First Law ...
Dream on.

Can the First Law even be implemented? It seems akin to the Halting Problem if you ask me.







:P
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:17 pm

Playing with Matt's playfulness ...
... Anybody who builds a device that violates the First Law ...
1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
Compound laws make bad laws.

Parsing
1a. A robot may not injure a human being
1b. [A]llow a human being to come to harm [through inaction].

1a. This is reasonable and really is built into every appliance from safety razors to factory welders.

1b. This requires omnipotence. It was used as the justification for the Robotic Revolution in I, Robot.

In truth, it will do whatever the fuck it is told to do by the hacker that hacks it.

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:54 pm

I hate following my post with another post but this is important, dammit.

The next high-level profession taken over should be optometry.

Please see my thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40437

There is nothing that eye-doctor did that could not be much better done by a decent robot. And it would probably listen better.

I'm getting more angry as I think about it.

:x :x :x :x

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by DrMatt » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:35 pm

My ophthalmologist uses a robot to get a rough estimate of my refraction, then tinkers with lenses to figure out what to do for my glasses. The robot doesn't check my eye pressure, my retinal health, my lens transparency, nor the topology of my corneas, and the numbers it gives are necessary but not sufficient for the RGP lenses that I require.
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:43 pm

DrMatt wrote:My ophthalmologist uses a robot to get a rough estimate of my refraction, then tinkers with lenses to figure out what to do for my glasses. The robot doesn't check my eye pressure, my retinal health, my lens transparency, nor the topology of my corneas, and the numbers it gives are necessary but not sufficient for the RGP lenses that I require.
While true that it doesn't, does that mean it can't? I sat in four chairs total.

1) that rough approximation machine, I think
2) a peripheral vision tester
3) that blasted blasting glaucoma tester that makes you say dammit twice.
4) the doctors chair where he did that lens flipping thing. He also did some tests with bright lights and looking in the eyeball for stuff.

I suppose that last part is pretty critical but if Watson can ...

Just sayin'. They're next.

Besides, I didn't see an ophthalmologist. I think they're real doctors. I saw an optometrist. I think that is the vision equivalent of podiatry or dermatologist. Barely a doctor at all.
Last edited by Rob Lister on Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:46 pm

DrMatt wrote:My ophthalmologist uses a robot to get a rough estimate of my refraction, then tinkers with lenses to figure out what to do for my glasses. The robot doesn't check my eye pressure, my retinal health, my lens transparency, nor the topology of my corneas, and the numbers it gives are necessary but not sufficient for the RGP lenses that I require.
When it is finally possible to have robots that really do the ophthalmologist's job, such robots will be never be deployed on a large scale if at all. Indeed, the whole health care industry will be much smaller. As it might be the harness and saddle industry today compared to 150 years ago.
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:03 pm

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:14 pm

Headline at link:

As machines take on more human work, what’s left for us?

Answer: If the distribution of robotically created wealth is equitable, more time in the holodeck. :cowbell:
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:23 pm

Where are the engineers and programmers? That didn't make the low RTI score?

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:30 pm

As noted, the engineers and programmers have customers (end users, call them what you will) who will be obsolete.

It will be like being a buggy whip designer. Unless you're one of the two or three best in the world, you'll be out of a job. And maybe even then.
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:00 am

On another note. Possibly also relevant ...

Career women are having ‘egg-freezing’ parties
New York Post
Fashionable New York professional women gathered at a first-of-its-kind “egg-freezing party” this week — where they sipped champagne while learning how to scientifically put off motherhood until they decide that they’re fully ready.

Dubbed “Let’s Chill,” the event was sponsored by a company called EggBanxx, which is cutting the cost of egg freezing and marketing it to young go-getters who want to be ready for kids later in life.

...

“I’d rather store my eggs now while they are young and healthy and use them when I’m older, say around 39.”
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:17 am

There will always be jobs for bosses.
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:22 am

Pyrrho wrote:There will always be jobs for bosses.
I'm sure the robots will let their human pets think they are the boss.

It'll be a running joke, sort of how people joke about their cats. 8)
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Rob Lister » Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:35 am

Pyrrho wrote:There will always be jobs for bosses.
My boss has no job. A broken toaster oven could replace him.

He doesn't like me either.

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Boss Paul » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:00 am

And Boss Keane tells me that's your dirt in his ditch.

What's your dirt doing in his ditch?
Get the wax outta your ears!

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by ceptimus » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:16 pm

The human job will be to buy and use all the stuff made by the robots.

The humans will need to be well paid so that they can do this job effectively - otherwise the robots will be out of a job too.

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:31 pm

ceptimus wrote:The human job will be to buy and use all the stuff made by the robots.

The humans will need to be well paid so that they can do this job effectively - otherwise the robots will be out of a job too.
There is that little problem, yes.
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by DrMatt » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:04 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:As noted, the engineers and programmers have customers (end users, call them what you will) who will be obsolete.

It will be like being a buggy whip designer. Unless you're one of the two or three best in the world, you'll be out of a job. And maybe even then.
You mean fetishware is designed by robots for robots now?
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:26 pm

DrMatt wrote:You mean fetishware is designed by robots for robots now?
Not yet. :P
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