## Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

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Witness
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Seems to be the right thread ( ):
This is money wrote:How Adele helped vinyl turn the tables: Sales of vinyl records up 500% in just three years

Sales of vinyl records have soared by a staggering 500 per cent in just three years as a return to buying physical music captured the imagination of the public.

Support from music chain HMV and online music marketplace Discogs bolstered sales of vinyl records, which reached 2.1million copies last year.

Sales of record players have also soared with HMV reporting that it sold one every minute over the Christmas sales period.

Just three years ago even music industry insiders were dismissing the vinyl revolution.

The surprise growth has come from sales of new releases by mainstream artists coupled with reissues of old favourites.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news ... years.html
So the Cool Kids® will soon snigger at our FLACs & CDs? (And know what an LP is…)

Anaxagoras
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

There is something cool about vinyl records that seems to be lost in having all your music on iTunes or whatever. Cooler than CDs too.
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asthmatic camel
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

They may be cooler but they sound like crap next to CDs. That's why all us oldsters got rid of them all those years ago.
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Rob Lister
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Purely a fad. You can never go back.

Besides, buying albums--digital, cd or vinyl--is for chumps.

A 500% increase sounds like a lot but that puts them at 2.5 million copies annually.

Adele--the artist referenced in the article--sold that many non-vinyl albums in one day.

Tunes has sold 2.5 billion songs thus far.

I wouldn't bet my IRA on Vinyl.

Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Vinyl is a niche, not unlike (with overlapping fandom) tube amps.
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sparks
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Some people like the added warmth of all those even-ordered harmonics.

'Course, technically that's called distortion.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

I had this argument with a friend a looong time ago. He was seriously into vinyl and criticized me for going to CDs early (MP3s were just a glint in the milkman's eye back then).

His system was better and had richer sound, and it was worth the special cloths and care, etc.

I: "So, how much did your system run?"

He: "$4,500" I: "My CD player and speakers ran me$350 - most of that was the speakers . . . 9 out of 10 people will not be able to tell the difference between mine and yours. Including me."

He: " . . ."

He: " . . ."

He: "Die in a fire."

Me: (exudes smugness)

Doctor X
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

I recall vinyl fans screaming about how "CDs sound metalic!" Sure.

There is band that allows fans to trade bootleg recordings of concerts and practice sessions--"what? You want this crap?"--and much of the "stuff" was produced on vinyl.

Much of the work fans do is correct the speed, remove the popping, hissing, balancing, et cetera on this wonderful vinyl. Cassettes? There is, of course, "tape hiss," speed, and filling in "cassette flips!"

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sparks
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

"Sounds harsh and cold" said one person to me when having this discussion regarding CDs vs Vinyl.

Why yes, it does. It's what would have been there all along without the artifacts the vinyl system adds to the original content.

Ears, like everything else, must be trained.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

Witness
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

sparks wrote:Ears, like everything else, must be trained.
Quite!

But beyond, or better before, reproduction quality comes the quality of the take. Progress has been made there too (and unmade, with the "war for loudness"). If you listen to LPs from the 60ies-70ies, there can be enormous differences. Classical (even chamber music) often sounded dull and muddled, contrary to jazz (even big bands), blues and some pop/folk which was more often crisp and somehow transparent.
I'd ascribe that to the interests, or lack of interests, of the sound technicians setting up the gear…

Doctor X
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

You know who ELSE would have preferred CDs?

HITLER!!!11!!

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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sparks
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Witness wrote:
sparks wrote:Ears, like everything else, must be trained.
Quite!

But beyond, or better before, reproduction quality comes the quality of the take. Progress has been made there too (and unmade, with the "war for loudness"). If you listen to LPs from the 60ies-70ies, there can be enormous differences. Classical (even chamber music) often sounded dull and muddled, contrary to jazz (even big bands), blues and some pop/folk which was more often crisp and somehow transparent.
I'd ascribe that to the interests, or lack of interests, of the sound technicians setting up the gear…
Perhaps a question of production budget...

Not everyone could afford a Neumann U-47.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neumann_U47

Arguably the finest mic ever made. Just don't let the kids play with it!
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

Grammatron
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Witness wrote:
sparks wrote:Ears, like everything else, must be trained.
Quite!

But beyond, or better before, reproduction quality comes the quality of the take. Progress has been made there too (and unmade, with the "war for loudness"). If you listen to LPs from the 60ies-70ies, there can be enormous differences. Classical (even chamber music) often sounded dull and muddled, contrary to jazz (even big bands), blues and some pop/folk which was more often crisp and somehow transparent.
I'd ascribe that to the interests, or lack of interests, of the sound technicians setting up the gear…
There's also the issue of remastering altering the total sound volume of the production, as well as the sound volume of each individual instruments and vocals. One can argue the end result, while better quality, is not quite the original.

Witness
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

sparks
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

How quaint.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

Grammatron
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Maybe the remastered version has less cowbell! Is that the world you want to live in?!

Doctor X
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Trump promises more cowbell!

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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ed
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

sparks wrote:
gnome wrote:vinyl > mp3?

Does not depend on the bitrate?
I maintain good vinyl is better than the best mp3, but at the higher mp3 bitrates, I could be wrong. Point is, mp3 was originally invented to save disc space. Disc space is now shamelessly cheap so why bother?
When are you making the comparison?

After 1 play?
500?
10,000?

Supercilious technoid wanker. Yes, you.
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Rob Lister
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

ed wrote:
sparks wrote:
gnome wrote:vinyl > mp3?

Does not depend on the bitrate?
I maintain good vinyl is better than the best mp3, but at the higher mp3 bitrates, I could be wrong. Point is, mp3 was originally invented to save disc space. Disc space is now shamelessly cheap so why bother?
When are you making the comparison?

After 1 play?
500?
10,000?

Supercilious technoid wanker. Yes, you.
A powerpoint presentation (in pdf) worthy of the click. Comprehensive double blind test on trained ears.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/t ... ard.88280/

At bitrates above 256, even the best trained ears cannot tell the difference.
Spoiler:

sparks
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### Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

ed wrote:
sparks wrote:
gnome wrote:vinyl > mp3?

Does not depend on the bitrate?
I maintain good vinyl is better than the best mp3, but at the higher mp3 bitrates, I could be wrong. Point is, mp3 was originally invented to save disc space. Disc space is now shamelessly cheap so why bother?
When are you making the comparison?

After 1 play?
500?
10,000?

Supercilious technoid wanker. Yes, you.
Thanks ed. Coming from you, that means so much! BTW-If vinyl has been treated with respect and is played on good gear with a new stylus, it doesn't much matter how many plays it has had...within reason. Bigger difference comes from how it was cut and pressed and the quality of the vinyl compound itself. They are not created equally. There used to be some stuff out there called 'Quiex II' which always made for a superior (less noisy) playback experience.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.