Electric truck

We are the Borg.
User avatar
ed
Posts: 39646
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: G_D

Re: Electric truck

Post by ed »

Rob Lister wrote:
gnome wrote:Battery swap stations? No charging delay, just give the "station" the old battery, grab a freshly charged one (or have a robot replace it unless there's a union issue). Pay the fee which is part energy cost and partly battery replacement costs when they are retired by the stations because they're getting a little dodgy.
Yep. Now think of the logistics. How pretty are they? In the end is it cheaper than diesel?
Think of the logistics involved with fedex before it worked. Woulda been thought impossible ...

" but but there is diesel USPS and UPS. Think of the children"
"I'm not gay."
- Rob Lister

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
- Queen Gertrude - Hamlet
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 87285
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Not quite Chicago

Re: Electric truck

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

I want Doctor No Face back already. :evil:
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 23212
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister »

ed wrote:
gnome wrote:Battery swap stations? No charging delay, just give the "station" the old battery, grab a freshly charged one (or have a robot replace it unless there's a union issue). Pay the fee which is part energy cost and partly battery replacement costs when they are retired by the stations because they're getting a little dodgy.
Thank you. Please explain the concept to Rob. Use small words and lots of gestures.
Please don't use racist gestures like ed likes.
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 23212
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister »

Better never than late but here it is anyway.

Image
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/03/fi ... batteries/

Notable quote
The Semi has ambitious specs that haven't been vetted in the real world yet—Musk promised that the top-line trucks would have a 500-mile range and an 80,000lb maximum load.
Of which only 40,000lb is usable after subtracting the 40,000lb weight of the battery pack. And let's not point out the energy costs of hauling that 40,000lb' battery pack around.
User avatar
sparks
Posts: 16958
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

Re: Electric truck

Post by sparks »

Charged battery energy density is nowhere near diesel energy density. The recharge energy has to come from somewhere.

Whole concept is a fucking snipe hunt. Makes no sense at all. Burn some diesel here or some coal over there. Either way, you're fucked.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 23212
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister »

sparks wrote:Charged battery energy density is nowhere near diesel energy density. The recharge energy has to come from somewhere.

Whole concept is a fucking snipe hunt. Makes no sense at all. Burn some diesel here or some coal over there. Either way, you're fucked.
Not a great argument. The chain of efficiency between the two systems is fairly equal with electric just eking ahead. The energy to that electric solution may be from any number of sources, most of which are much cleaner than diesel or gasoline, with the worst of which--coal--being roughly equal.

Electric cars can be a smart solution.
Electric semis not so much as it has a reverse economy of scale.
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 87285
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Not quite Chicago

Re: Electric truck

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Besides, the trucks are a fire hazard.

Just like that automated train NYC used to have that kept catching fire while no one was looking.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.
User avatar
sparks
Posts: 16958
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

Re: Electric truck

Post by sparks »

Rob Lister wrote:
sparks wrote:Charged battery energy density is nowhere near diesel energy density. The recharge energy has to come from somewhere.

Whole concept is a fucking snipe hunt. Makes no sense at all. Burn some diesel here or some coal over there. Either way, you're fucked.
Not a great argument. The chain of efficiency between the two systems is fairly equal with electric just eking ahead. The energy to that electric solution may be from any number of sources, most of which are much cleaner than diesel or gasoline, with the worst of which--coal--being roughly equal.

Electric cars can be a smart solution.
Electric semis not so much as it has a reverse economy of scale.
Evidences on the comparison of efficiency?

Agreed that infernal combustion engines driving wheels through a transmission is horribly inefficient. But one wonders how efficient, as pointed out earlier in the thread, it is to haul around 40,000 pounds of batteries. That is one heavy fucking fuel tank.

Let's ignore the 500 mile range claim for the moment.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 23212
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister »

sparks wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
sparks wrote:Charged battery energy density is nowhere near diesel energy density. The recharge energy has to come from somewhere.

Whole concept is a fucking snipe hunt. Makes no sense at all. Burn some diesel here or some coal over there. Either way, you're fucked.
Not a great argument. The chain of efficiency between the two systems is fairly equal with electric just eking ahead. The energy to that electric solution may be from any number of sources, most of which are much cleaner than diesel or gasoline, with the worst of which--coal--being roughly equal.

Electric cars can be a smart solution.
Electric semis not so much as it has a reverse economy of scale.
Evidences on the comparison of efficiency?

Agreed that infernal combustion engines driving wheels through a transmission is horribly inefficient. But one wonders how efficient, as pointed out earlier in the thread, it is to haul around 40,000 pounds of batteries.
Yea, that was me. And whereas mine was a valid argument against the use of electric for trucks, yours is not a valid argument against the use of electric in general; either that or it's a very nice snipe worth hunting.

You can find general baselines for ERI's here
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 1513003856
User avatar
sparks
Posts: 16958
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

Re: Electric truck

Post by sparks »

"yours is not a valid argument against the use of electric in general;"

Sorry about the misunderstanding: My argument wasn't meant to be against the use of electric in general.

We are on the same page here.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 23212
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister »

The scam continues. The entire company exists only on paper. I mean, I gotta hand it to them, they know how to sell air.
A Truck Maker With Zero Revenue Scores $7.6 Billion Return for Early Backers

It may have zero revenue, but Nikola Corp.’s stock surge has rewarded a few early believers with 10-figure gains on paper.

Six investors have positions in the truck maker totaling $8.3 billion after investing about $650 million combined, according to an analysis of filings by the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. They include the Agnelli family’s CNH Industrial NV, with a $1.6 billion holding; $1.3 billion for Jeff Ubben’s ValueAct Capital Management, and $1.4 billion controlled by South Korea’s Hanwha Group.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ly-backers

a-fucking-mazing.
The value of these stakes has fluctuated wildly since Nikola’s reverse merger earlier this month with VectoIQ Acquisition Corp., and skeptics have questioned whether the company will sustain its lofty market value. Short-seller Andrew Left of Citron Research predicted Nikola shares, which climbed as high as $93.99 last week, would fall to $40 in a month. The stock rose as much as 8% before the start of regular trading Wednesday after closing at $62.93 Tuesday.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if they never get a truck on the road,” Left said.
They have $10 Billion in pre-orders. It cost $0 to pre-order.
solely
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: Electric truck

Post by solely »

LOL!
User avatar
robinson
Posts: 11450
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Pretty much dead already
Location: USA

Re: Electric truck

Post by robinson »

still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 23212
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister »

I like it lots. I probably wouldn't like the stupidly unnecessary engineering overkill that Musk can't seem to resist (complex computer-controlled servo-driven door latches in place of two metal rods and a bushing, etc.)
User avatar
robinson
Posts: 11450
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Pretty much dead already
Location: USA

Re: Electric truck

Post by robinson »

Rob Lister wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:14 pm I like it lots. I probably wouldn't like the stupidly unnecessary engineering overkill that Musk can't seem to resist (complex computer-controlled servo-driven door latches in place of two metal rods and a bushing, etc.)
When you learn the pressurized cabin version is going to be the work vehicle on the moon and Mars, it makes more sense.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
User avatar
robinson
Posts: 11450
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Pretty much dead already
Location: USA

Re: Electric truck

Post by robinson »

These are not the sort of vehicles that are expected to work in a technological vacuum, but they are expected to work in an actual vacuum
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 28502
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: Electric truck

Post by Anaxagoras »

Rob Lister wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:01 pm The scam continues. The entire company exists only on paper. I mean, I gotta hand it to them, they know how to sell air.
A Truck Maker With Zero Revenue Scores $7.6 Billion Return for Early Backers

It may have zero revenue, but Nikola Corp.’s stock surge has rewarded a few early believers with 10-figure gains on paper.

Six investors have positions in the truck maker totaling $8.3 billion after investing about $650 million combined, according to an analysis of filings by the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. They include the Agnelli family’s CNH Industrial NV, with a $1.6 billion holding; $1.3 billion for Jeff Ubben’s ValueAct Capital Management, and $1.4 billion controlled by South Korea’s Hanwha Group.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ly-backers

a-fucking-mazing.
The value of these stakes has fluctuated wildly since Nikola’s reverse merger earlier this month with VectoIQ Acquisition Corp., and skeptics have questioned whether the company will sustain its lofty market value. Short-seller Andrew Left of Citron Research predicted Nikola shares, which climbed as high as $93.99 last week, would fall to $40 in a month. The stock rose as much as 8% before the start of regular trading Wednesday after closing at $62.93 Tuesday.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if they never get a truck on the road,” Left said.
They have $10 Billion in pre-orders. It cost $0 to pre-order.
Looks like you called it:

Nikola (NKLA) in Turmoil – What Should the Shareholders Now Expect Amid Allegations of Another Theranos in the Making?
Nikola Corporation (NASDAQ:NKLA 32.13 -14.48%) shares continue to experience epic volatility, fueled by wild price swings as a result of dramatic developments over the past couple of days. The pre-revenue company is currently facing perhaps the most arduous challenge of its corporate existence, resulting in pitched battles between the bulls and the bears not only on the stock exchange but also on Twitter and other social media platforms as investors try to justify their individual thesis on what the future holds for Nikola.

While the situation remains as obfuscating as ever, Nikola bulls believe that the company is being unfairly targeted by short-sellers. On the other end of the spectrum, the company’s detractors perceive it as a horrendous reincarnation of the infamous Theranos saga. In today’s post, we’ll try to assess the prevailing situation objectively and then synthesize what this endless parade of allegations and counter-allegations means for the stock price.

First, let’s take a cursory stock of the current situation. Early last week, Nikola super-charged the bullish sentiment in its shares when it announced a strategic partnership with General Motors (NYSE:GM 30.46 0.96%). We have covered the minutiae of this arrangement in a previous post. To summarize, GM will provide batteries, fuel cells, and other essential components for Nikola’s Class 8 electric trucks. The auto giant will also manufacture the company’s much-anticipated Badger electric pickup truck. In return, GM will receive an 11 percent stake in Nikola worth around $2 billion. It will also receive another $2 billion as compensation for providing services as well as access to key parts and components, including $700 million in production-related costs. Finally, GM will receive the lion’s share of the tax credits that will be generated by retailing the Badger truck. On the 8th of September, when this deal was announced after the extended holiday weekend, the stock jumped by an astonishing 40 percent relative to the closing price of $35.55 registered the week before.

However, things took a turn for the worse when Hindenburg Research published a scathing report on Thursday (10th of September), leveling two major allegations against Nikola. The first asserted that Nikola, contrary to its public claims, does not possess any revolutionary or proprietary technology concerning batteries and hydrogen fuel cells, as illustrated by the fact that it is utilizing GM’s under-development Ultium battery system and Hydrotec fuel cell technology for the Badger pickup truck. The second allegation alluded to Nikola’s supposed proclivity of employing deliberate deception as modus operandi. You can gain further insight by heading to our dedicated post on this subject. Thereafter, on the 11th of September, Citron Research also publicly came out in support of Hindenburg’s findings against Nikola.
Nikola: How to Parlay An Ocean of Lies Into a Partnership With the Largest Auto OEM in America (Hindenburg Research)
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
User avatar
robinson
Posts: 11450
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Pretty much dead already
Location: USA

Re: Electric truck

Post by robinson »

sparks wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:47 am Hard to tell from the info, but it sure seems that way to me.
So it was a scam from day one?
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 23212
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister »

robinson wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:52 am
sparks wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:47 am Hard to tell from the info, but it sure seems that way to me.
So it was a scam from day one?
The founder is Trevor Milton. Given his business history, I'd say yes, a scam from day one.
User avatar
robinson
Posts: 11450
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Pretty much dead already
Location: USA

Re: Electric truck

Post by robinson »

Grammatron wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:52 pm
Tesla wants to be a global vehicle manufacturer on par with GM or Ford.
Feb 4, 2020
With a market capitalization topping $160 billion, Tesla has now become larger than U.S. Big 3 automakers General Motors (NYSE:GM) ($50 billion), Ford (NYSE:F) ($36 billion), and Fiat Chrysler (NYSE:FCAU) ($26 billion) combined -- and almost enough room left over to toss on Mercedes-Benz manufacturer Daimler ($50 billion) for good measure. The move has left many wondering exactly how Tesla got here -- and what's ahead for the car company down the road.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/02/ ... ler-c.aspx
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris