## Wind Turbines

We are the Borg.
Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

A massive wind turbine in New York City crashes down onto a car

(CNN)A recently installed wind turbine came crashing down in a New York City neighborhood, causing a chain reaction on Monday.
As the turbine in the Bronx partially collapsed, it smashed into an adjacent three-sided illuminated billboard, causing that also to break apart and come tumbling down to the street and cars below.
Pictures from the scene shot by Tori McCauseland with The Co-op City Times show a massive pole lying across a mangled car.

"Thankfully we can report that there are no injuries, and everyone is safe and sound," New York Mayor Bill de Blasio told CNN affiliate WABC. "An investigation into how this incident happened is underway."
The wind turbine, which is more than 150 feet tall, was installed in mid-December but had not yet been activated, according to WABC. Debris was strewn across the shopping center below that houses a gas station, pharmacy, paint store and other businesses. All the stores were evacuated, according to the New York City Department of Buildings (DOB).
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/30/us/w ... index.html

I blame AOC.

Rob Lister
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### Re: Wind Turbines

gnome wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:55 am
More than they would using coal at the same output level, or exceeding it because of higher output?
Coal has a higher energy density than pellets but pellets can be burned more efficiently than coal. On average:

Energy content of coal: 24 MJ/kg @ 60%eff = 14.4 MJ/kg realized.
Energy content of pellets: 18 MJ/kg @ 80%eff = 14.4 MJ/kg realized.

So it's a wash.
Another question I have is if the CO2 levels are comparable to the alternative, are there other environmental benefits to the switch?

I consider, for example, how coal creates heavy metal pollution.
Coal is a nasty fuel. In modern plants, all those nasty heavy metals are scrubbed and stored as fly-ash. So while very little makes it to the air, it still has to be dealt with.

But that's where the benefit of wood pellets ends. It's hard to find an unbiased source that compares pellet CO2 emissions with other fuels because most of them only report 'surplus' or Life cycle CO2 rather than actual CO2.

I think volker-quaschning gives an unbiased picture.
.
https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datser ... ndex_e.php

But because the EU only considers life cycle, burning pellets gives those plants a free pass.

But not Too Free.

The cost comparison is an eye opener.

price of coal: $35.99/ton price of pellets:$250/ton

In the end, pellets are no panacea.
https://phys.org/news/2018-03-wood-pell ... utral.html
https://www.caryinstitute.org/news-insi ... green-fuel

ceptimus
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### Re: Wind Turbines

When you compare the price per ton of pellets versus coal, you also have to consider energy density - you have to burn a greater weight of pellets than coal to produce the same amount of heat, so the pellet price is even higher than it first appears.

The actual density (weight per unit volume) of pellets is also much lower than that of coal, so you need more ships and rail cars to carry the fuel required. This was apparent when I worked at Lynemouth - the rail depot that used to handle the coal easily was stretched to breaking point and in need of expansion after the plant was converted to biomass. They also had to build extra silos to stockpile enough fuel to last between one shipment and the next - they like to stockpile at least a week's worth of fuel in case of supply problems, and a week's worth of pellets takes up a lot more room than a week's worth of coal.

There's also the energy input for producing the wood pellets to consider. The trees have to be felled, transported, cut up, and the pellets are then dried, compacted, etc. ready for transport. Much of the energy input to these processes comes from burning fossil fuels or from the electricity grid, but some estimates put the energy use of these processes equivalent to burning 10% to 20% of the wood in order to process the remaining 80% to 90%.

Of course, coal also has to be mined, broken up, washed and transported, but the energy inputs for those processes are generally much lower than for wood pellets. In the case of the UK, the power stations were often built directly over coal fields to minimize the transport costs, but now those same power stations are burning imported wood pellets, the cost of transport, both in energy and financial terms, is much greater.

The wood pellets also have health risks. The dust from the wood pellets is a known carcinogen, and special dust extractors, filters, and personal protective equipment are required at all stages of the transport and handling process.

The furnaces that raise the steam at Drax were designed for coal. Apparently the fumes caused by burning pellets contain extra acids or other chemicals that attack the steam tubes shortening their expected lifespan. One of the projects I was involved with at Drax, was to feed some sort of mineral powder additive into the furnaces that helped correct this problem. Of course, extra silos, monitoring and metering equipment was needed to store and feed the powder (I worked on the weighing equipment that measured and controlled the feed rate of the powder). The weight and volume of the powder was a tiny fraction compared to the pellets, but that powder still had to be bought, transported, stored, and monitored. I was never able to find out the actual composition of the powder - there seemed to be great secrecy concerning what it was. I don't know if that was for commercial or other reasons.

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Kansas’ embrace of wind energy helps it reduce CO2 emissions

WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — Kansas has been able to reduce its carbon-dioxide emissions for a 10th straight year largely due to the rapid adoption of wind energy and a slow move away from coal powered electricity.

About 36% of all electricity produced in Kansas is from wind, the highest percentage of any U.S. state, the Kansas News Service reported. In 2019 alone, Kansas saw four new wind farms, adding enough capacity to power 190,000 homes for a year.

In 2017, about half of Kansas’ total carbon-dioxide emissions came from burning fossil fuels, such as coal and natural gas, to create electricity. Plant upgrades and federal environmental regulations since, have forced coal plants to clean up what was coming out of their smoke stacks.
https://apnews.com/037f82df7e0d6bcde590170a59d46528

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Germany eyes new offshore wind farms dedicated to green hydrogen production

Move would be a world first in fast-moving sector — part of government plans to spend billions of euros to build up an industrial-scale domestic market for green H2

Germany is considering holding special offshore wind tenders to produce green hydrogen at an industrial scale, according to the draft of a national hydrogen strategy by the economics and energy ministry seen by Recharge.

Awarding areas at sea exclusively for hydrogen production is one out of 34 measures the ministry suggests in a 21-page draft document that will now undergo the scrutiny of other ministries before being presented by economics and energy minister Peter Altmaier.

“The designation of areas that can be used for the off-shore production of hydrogen, the necessary infrastructure and options for additional tenders for the generation of renewable energies will be relevant topics (implementation from 2020),” the draft stresses without giving more specific detail on when special tenders may be held or what volume they could have.

“Due to the high full load hours, wind energy at sea is an attractive technology for generating renewable electricity, which can be used for the production of CO2-free hydrogen,” it explains.

The proposal for a hydrogen strategy includes the need for billions of euros in support, and stresses that Germany will need to build up a strong domestic market for green hydrogen in order to become a world leader in hydrogen technology.

But it acknowledges that given the country’s limited own renewable energy generation capacities, it will also need to import large quantities of CO2-free hydrogen.

“The European Union, in particular with the North Sea, has geographically suitable and profitable locations for wind energy and thus offers great potential for the production of green hydrogen,” the proposal states, but also says that part of the hydrogen supply could come from non-EU nations, where renewables can be produced at very cheap prices on a large scale.
https://www.rechargenews.com/wind/germa ... 2-1-748198

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Not only wind, but still a data point:
EU's CO2 emissions fall 12% in 2019 as wind and solar surpass coal

February 5 (Renewables Now) - The European Union’s (EU) electricity sector has emitted 12% less carbon dioxide (CO2) in 2019 compared to a year earlier as generation from hard coal- and lignite-fired power plants dropped by 24% on the year.

Greenhouse gas emissions went down by 120 million tonnes, which is the sharpest decline since at least 1990, shows a new study by Agora Energiewende and climate think-tank Sandbag.

“Last year’s decline in EU greenhouse gas emissions is thanks largely to the CO2 emissions price, which continued to drive climate-damaging energy sources from the market,” said Matthias Buck, the head of European energy policy at Agora Energiewende. He noted, though, that maintaining the price of CO2 emissions at current levels is crucial for ensuring the continued mitigation of global warming. In 2019, that price rose to about EUR 25 (USD 27.5) per tonne of CO2.

Buck also urged the EU Emissions Trading System to further lower the number of yearly permits it issues for greenhouse gas emissions in the energy, industrial and intra-European aviation sectors.

Last year saw the share of renewables in EU-wide power generation climb to a record high of 34.6%, or 1.8 percentage points higher than in 2018. The electricity produced by wind and solar parks rose by 64 TWh to 569 TWh in 2019 and thus, for the first time, surpassed the amount of coal-fired electricity by 100 TWh. Wind farms generated 14% more electricity in 2019 compared to 2018, while solar power plants experienced a 7% increase in their output. On the other hand, hydropower production went down by more than 6% because of ongoing drought.

When it comes to annual capacity additions, the study mentions that 16.8 GW of wind parks were installed across Europe in 2019, which is about 5.1 GW more than the year before. In the solar photovoltaic (PV) sector, annual additions doubled to 16.7 GW from 8.2 GW.

Buck, however, warns that the annual growth of renewable energy capacity should be accelerated if the EU is to achieve its 2030 target of having almost one-third of its total energy coming from renewables.
https://renewablesnow.com/news/eus-co2- ... al-686170/

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Britain sets new daily record for wind generation, topping 44% of country’s electricity consumption

Stormy conditions drove wind to a new record-high share of Britain’s electricity supply that at one point hit 56% this weekend, said power market analysts.

The record level, in the early hours of Saturday 8 February, beat a previous high of 52.4% set in September 2019, said analysis from Drax Electric Insights.

Saturday also set a new record for highest share of power produced in a single day with 44.26%, said Drax, outstripping both nuclear and gas combined.

The wind power records came amid the arrival of storm Ciara, which caused havoc to travel and infrastructure across the UK this weekend – and left thousands of consumers without any power at all.

The UK has 13.57GW of onshore wind installed, and a world-leading 8.4GW offshore fleet.

The two are currently on very different trajectories, with onshore installations plunging as a result of adverse government policies, while offshore is booming after being included as a key part of the national industrial strategy.
https://ieefa.org/britain-sets-new-dail ... nsumption/

Anaxagoras
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:56 pm
We've been over this before.
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:16 pm
ceptimus wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:03 am
I worked on the conversion of Lynemouth power station from burning coal into burning wood pellets. The wood pellets are officially classified as green, so the station now runs flat out 24/7 supplying base load, even at times of low demand when wind turbines are parked because their energy is not needed.

The tragedy is that the wood pellets are imported from North America's west coast. The carbon burned harvesting, processing, and transporting the fuel isn't taken into account when calculating the carbon footprint. Also there are big questions about the sustainability of cutting down mature trees and burning them to make electricity - no matter where in the world, and under what regulatory system those trees are felled.

The Czech company that owns and operates the power station doesn't care - targets are officially being met and the company is able to claim a £1m per day government subsidy for producing all that lovely "clean" energy.
Quincy Illinois until recently had a power plant that generated electricity by burning old tires. Finally local protests got it shut down.

You might think that even by greedy capitalist pig despoil the planet standards, it would be unprofitable to generate electricity that way.

However, they got a state subsidy because old tires were classified as "renewable". Remove the subsidy, close the plant.

There was probably some hanky-panky involved in getting the subsidy in the first place, but nobody pursued that.
If you just buried the tires, the carbon in them would be sequestered (as long as you don't accidentally cause a tire fire).
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

ceptimus
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### Re: Wind Turbines

That would only work for preventing the rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide if the fossil fuel burned by all the equipment and people that bury the tires contains less carbon than that contained in the actual tires.

I guess that would be the case providing you use an existing hole: stack the tires in worked-out existing mines. Make sure you don't burn much fossil fuel transporting and handling the tires though.

Anaxagoras
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Well, I'm assuming they need to be disposed of in any case. Disposing of garbage/trash is a necessity anyway, right?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

ceptimus
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Yes.

Tires are tricky things to recycle as they contain rubber, plastic, steel, and fibres all baked together. If they can't be recycled as tires, what are the options? Grind them up, bury them, stack them in huge piles on the surface, or burn them? All those approaches have drawbacks in energy use and pollution.

The French used to throw them in the ocean, claiming they would create useful habitats for fish and other marine life - but years later they had to admit that the tires were badly damaging the ocean, so they had to recover as many tires as possible back to land.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20180923/france ... ental-flop

Anaxagoras
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### Re: Wind Turbines

I suppose that burning them isn't necessarily the worst option. If you get energy from it. But it's like burning a fossil fuel.

The French determined that throwing them in the ocean isn't a good idea.

If you could recycle them or reuse them somehow, that might be good, but I don't know how economic that really is.

If none of the above that leaves either burying them or making a mountain of discarded tires somewhere. Tire mountains often end up burning so that too seems bad:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_fire
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Bruce
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### Re: Wind Turbines

We could melt them down and turn them into bullets.

Oh wait, I thought this thread was about wind turbines. We're talking about tires now? I suppose we could still turn them into rubber bullets, but that wouldn't be as effective in reducing the Vegan population.
Such potential!

Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Anaxagoras wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:10 pm
I suppose that burning them isn't necessarily the worst option. If you get energy from it. But it's like burning a fossil fuel.
It's much worse pollution in the immediate neighborhood, even if it's sort of OK from a global perspective.

And it happened in the first place because Illinois is utterly corrupt.
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

Rob Lister
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### Re: Wind Turbines

ceptimus wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:33 am
Yes.

Tires are tricky things to recycle as they contain rubber, plastic, steel, and fibres all baked together. If they can't be recycled as tires, what are the options? Grind them up, bury them, stack them in huge piles on the surface, or burn them? All those approaches have drawbacks in energy use and pollution.
https://www.thelocal.fr/20180923/france ... ental-flop
I'll try to find the youtube video but it just so happens there's a new road construction process that uses whole tires with the sidewalls cut out as the foundation for roads highways. Here's how it works
1) cut surface the road, as usual.
2) instead of just spreading gravel as evenly for the foundation, first put down the tires, side by side, and fill them and the remaining spaces with number 8 gravel.
3) Pave over it with asphalt or concrete.

The constraint of the tire column eliminates compression and spreading. The loose aggregate elements freeze/thaw heaving.

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Britain's power system is decarbonising faster than anywhere in the world, report finds

Britain's power system has been decarbonising at a faster rate than anywhere else in the world over the last decade, a new report has found.

Carbon emissions from the power sector have fallen by around two thirds over the last ten years, from 161 million tonnes in 2010 to 54 million metric tonnes in 2019.

It comes as the country's generators transition away from coal and natural gas to renewable energy sources, such as sustainable biomass.

In the electricity sector, a decrease in demand for power proved to be the biggest driver of the decline in emissions, according to the report by academics from Imperial College London for Drax Electric Insights.

Demand fell by 13 per cent, even as the population grew by seven per cent and GDP rose by a quarter, as measures such as more energy efficient lighting, manufacturing and other efficiency measures took hold.

However the rise of electric vehicles and household heat pumps threaten to reverse this trend, the report warned.

...

The report found that sustainable biomass generated more power than solar energy and provided a bigger reduction in wholesale power prices.

Over the last decade, biomass produced 88.1 TWh compared to 59.86 TWh from solar - despite the latter having a far greater installed capacity, the report found.

Meanwhile, wind energy delivered a quarter of the reduction in carbon emissions.

But as reliance on weather-dependent energy sources grew, the report warned that 'system operability' would become more difficult and called for more system support services and greater flexibility.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/uk ... r-BB1048hw

ceptimus will perhaps chime in about the "sustainable" biomass.

Anaxagoras
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Witness wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:35 am
The report found that sustainable biomass generated more power than solar energy and provided a bigger reduction in wholesale power prices.
. . .

But as reliance on weather-dependent energy sources grew, the report warned that 'system operability' would become more difficult and called for more system support services and greater flexibility.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/uk ... r-BB1048hw

ceptimus will perhaps chime in about the "sustainable" biomass.
Well I think he already did, but it's actually a fair question in my opinion. If it's being felled and transported from North America, is it truly "zero emissions"? Or close enough to zero to squint and call it zero? I would like to see exactly how this is justified, because it sort of smells like a kind of accounting trick.

In truth, it does in fact emit CO2 in the burning of course, but we pretend that this CO2 doesn't count because it came from the atmosphere in the first place. Sure, OK, but instead of being bound up and trapped in the wood, we are putting it back into the atmosphere as CO2.

And of course, cutting down trees requires some kind of machinery that runs on fossil fuel. So does transporting the logs with trucks and probably the cutting into pellets too. Then it needs to be transported to a port and loaded into a ship that burns heavy fuel oil to be shipped across the ocean. And finally transporting from the port to the power generator. What does that all add up to?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

There are other sources of "bio" fuel than the wood pellets shipped to Drax: biogas from waste sludge, methane from cow manure, wood chips from local forests, or biomass from fast growing plants.

But I don't know much on the subject, and even less about what's going on in the UK.

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Wind has surpassed hydro as most-used renewable electricity generation source in U.S.

In 2019, U.S. annual wind generation exceeded hydroelectric generation for the first time, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration’s Electric Power Monthly. Wind is now the top renewable source of electricity generation in the country, a position previously held by hydroelectricity.

Annual wind generation totaled 300 million megawatthours (MWh) in 2019, exceeding hydroelectric generation by 26 million MWh. Wind generation has increased steadily during the past decade, in part, because the Production Tax Credit (PTC), which drove wind capacity additions, was extended. Annual hydroelectric generation has fluctuated between 250 million MWh and 320 million MWh in the past decade, reflecting a stable capacity base and variable annual precipitation.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42955