## Wind Turbines

We are the Borg.
Rob Lister
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:13 pm
gnome wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:38 pm
How's that? I understand coal is PRIMARILY used for power generation.
Primarily, yes.

But it's also very important in steel production.
'Tis true. Roughly half a ton of coal per ton of steel. And more to the point, only the best coal at that.

bituminous coal + oven - oxygen = coke + iron = steel

gnome
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### Re: Wind Turbines

My graduation hangs on the wall, but it never taught me what was real
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

Doctor X
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Iron and coke?
Chromium steel?

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Rob Lister
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### Re: Wind Turbines

A stainless observation.

Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Uh oh.
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

GE Renewable Energy to shut US blade factory

GE Renewable Energy is to close a blade manufacturing plant in Little Rock, Arkansas.

The company announced on Tuesday it will close the facility, which is operated by subsidiary LM Wind Power and employs around 470 people.

A company spokesperson cited declining demand for blades produced at the location as the reason for the closure. The plant makes 44 and 62-metre units.

“We understand that this is a difficult time to announce this decision and are taking a number of steps to provide additional support for our employees during this time, including continued pay for a minimum of four months,” a spokesperson said.

“We will also pay their health insurance premiums for an additional six months to ensure they have coverage through at least the end of the year."

The Little Rock site has been operational since 2007.
https://renews.biz/59679/ge-renewables- ... e-factory/

Vestas blades from Russia with love

Vestas has exported a first batch of turbine blades from a manufacturing facility in Russia.

The 48 components were shipped from the plant in Ulyanovsk, jointly set up by Russian entities Rusnano and the Ulnanotech centre, to Denmark.

Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Yuri Borisov attended an event to mark the milestone.

Borisov said: “This event is important not only for the renewable energy sector, but also for our country’s economy as a whole.

“Such projects also need to be replicated and we have supported and will continue to support the creation of high-tech industries in this area.

...

To date 435MW of wind is operational in Russia and 300MW is under construction across the country, Morozov added.

Rob Lister
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Can't compete, I suppose. I'm guessing they're very labor intensive.

Here's a pic of their plant and port on the Arkansas River, fwiw.

I suppose once you get them to a waterway, it's easy to get them to any other but I'm always perplexed at the logistics of moving those things around inland.

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Wind blows by coal to become Iowa's largest source of electricity

A new report from the American Wind Energy Association says wind is now the largest single source of electricity in Iowa.

According to the trade association's Wind Powers America 2019 Annual Report, Iowa is now generating more than 10,000 megawatts of wind energy, accounting for more than 40% of the state's electricity.

Wind became the leading source of electricity in both Iowa and Kansas this year, making them the first states to reach that benchmark. Previously, coal-fired power generation had been Iowa's main source of electricity.

Projects in Iowa added the second-most wind power capacity of any state in 2019, behind only Texas.

The report also says Iowa is second in the nation in total wind industry jobs, with more than 9,000. The state's total economic investment in wind energy grew by $3 billion to reach$19 billion — also second in the nation. Texas leads both categories.

A USA Today report from earlier this year noted the reliable income from wind energy can help steady farmers dealing with a turbulent economy. The AWEA report said land lease payments for Iowa wind projects reached $69 million in 2019. But the state's rapid investment in wind and other forms of renewable energy has prompted concern by the Iowa Farm Bureau about the loss of farmland. The organization earlier this year supported statewide regulations on where wind and solar farms can be built. Some Iowans who live near wind farms have complained about the turbines, although researchers say there's little evidence of health impacts. https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/ ... 146483002/ Rob Lister Posts: 22888 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Wind Turbines Witness wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:43 am Wind blows by coal to become Iowa's largest source of electricity A new report from the American Wind Energy Association says wind is now the largest single source of electricity in Iowa. According to the trade association's Wind Powers America 2019 Annual Report, Iowa is now generating more than 10,000 megawatts of wind energy, accounting for more than 40% of the state's electricity. This is example of why technical and skeptical people need to do technical reporting. That 10,000 MWe is [almost certainly] nameplate capacity and doesn't represent actual use; actual contribution (or even availability) to the grid. And since wind is a non-distributable energy source, actual contribution is a very fuzzy number loaded with caveats and, sadly, political/marketing hype. If it did, it would represent 3 times and residential demand in that state. I suspect the real number is somewhere between 1 to 2 GWe (10 to 20% of nameplate, which is typical). One must consider the [reporting] source. Some Iowans who live near wind farms have complained about the turbines, although researchers say there's little evidence of health impacts. Why is the reporter conflating complaints (likely from the constant low freq noise) with health impacts? The reporter obviously doesn't have a turbine in his backyard. Some may complain they are eyesores, but I think they're pretty. Off shore wind is much more betterestly distributable and nobody cares what a fish thinks. Why the fuck am I up at 2:30 am debating the pros and cons of a fucking windmill? Witness Posts: 29381 Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm ### Re: Wind Turbines Rob Lister wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:38 am Why the fuck am I up at 2:30 am debating the pros and cons of a fucking windmill? Because you're Rob Lister, duh. Surprise Posts: 880 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:33 am Title: Nostradamus ### Re: Wind Turbines Rob Lister wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:41 am Can't compete, I suppose. I'm guessing they're very labor intensive. Here's a pic of their plant and port on the Arkansas River, fwiw. I suppose once you get them to a waterway, it's easy to get them to any other but I'm always perplexed at the logistics of moving those things around inland. Google has the answer. "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Witness Posts: 29381 Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm ### Re: Wind Turbines America's Renewable Energy Sources Have Produced More Electricity Than Coal Every Day for 40 Days Straight Renewable sources including solar, wind and hydropower generated more electricity than coal-based plants every single day in April, a new report says. Analysis shared by the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis (IEFA), based on data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), said the finding marks a major "milestone" in an energy transition that is now underway. The move away from coal for electricity generation in the U.S. accelerated in 2020 due to lower gas prices, warmer weather and a "significant amount" of new renewable capacity being connected to the grid late last year, the report suggested. It acknowledged that lower power demands resulting from economic slowdown sparked by the COVID-19 pandemic has also played a role in coal's decline. Preliminary data from the EIA's Hourly Electric Grid Monitor found that utility-scale solar, wind and hydro had collectively produced more electricity than coal-based plants for roughly 40 days straight, based on statistics between March 25 and May 3. As reported by Reuters, it shows how the ongoing novel coronavirus outbreak could speed up a shift from coal power despite attempts by the Trump administration and the U.S. energy department to boost the fossil fuel industry in recent years. https://www.newsweek.com/america-renewa ... ys-1501967 Anaxagoras Posts: 27682 Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan ### Re: Wind Turbines Yeah, about that though. Did you see Planet of the Humans? A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare Rob Lister Posts: 22888 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Wind Turbines Witness wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 1:35 am America's Renewable Energy Sources Have Produced More Electricity Than Coal Every Day for 40 Days Straight Renewable sources including solar, wind and hydropower generated more electricity than coal-based plants every single day in April, a new report says. ... Preliminary data from the EIA's Hourly Electric Grid Monitor found that utility-scale solar, wind and hydro had collectively produced more electricity than coal-based plants for roughly 40 days straight, based on statistics between March 25 and May 3. Emphasis and striking mine, of course. I refer to and renew my prior objection in this thread, i.e. neither generated nor produced equal provided; solar and wind are non-distributable. That is to say, they cannot be wholly relied upon ... except to wholly fail just when you need them most. What's the back-up? In this case, coal. So the plants must still exist, be maintained, be manned 24/7, and be.kept.warm. REPLACE them with NG as soon as possible, yes!, but their green bragging is nothing but hot (solar) air (wind). Harumph I will concede that wind, rightly scaled and placed, is quite good. It's also a bit unfair to add hydro into the mix as if it were some sort of new-age renewable. Environmentalists hate dams ... they damn them all to hell! Hydro is indeed a renewable, but unlike wind and solar, it is a fully distributable; it is always on and practically 100% reliable and load-following to boot. It beats nuclear all to hell in every way except safety. It paved the way not just to power, but to crops, to flood prevention, and the best skateboarding ever!<--I may have made that part up. I'm reminded of a very forward-thinking president early in the last century who remarked something to the effect of, '[A]llowing even one drop of our major waterways to reach the ocean is a damnable sin.' gnome Posts: 24248 Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am Location: New Port Richey, FL ### Re: Wind Turbines Rob Lister wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 8:38 am I will concede that wind, rightly scaled and placed, is quite good. Aha! Aha! "If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!" --Soldier, TF2 Witness Posts: 29381 Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm ### Re: Wind Turbines Solar, for a change: Biggest US solar project approved in Nevada despite critics RENO, Nev. (AP) — The Trump administration announced final approval Monday of the largest solar energy project in the U.S. and one of the biggest in the world despite objections from conservationists who say it will destroy thousands of acres of habitat critical to the survival of the threatened Mojave desert tortoise in Nevada. The$1 billion Gemini solar and battery storage project about 30 miles (48 kilometers) northeast of Las Vegas is expected to produce 690 megawatts of electricity — enough to power 260,000 households — and annually offset greenhouse emissions of about 83,000 cars.

It will create about 2,000 direct and indirect jobs and inject an estimated \$712.5 million in the economy as the nation tries to recover from the downturn brought on by the coronavirus outbreak, Interior Secretary David Bernhardt said.

“As our economy rebounds from the invisible enemy, President Trump is working to make the United States stronger than ever before,” Bernhardt said Monday. “Our economic resurgence will rely on getting America back to work and this project delivers on that objective.”

The first phase of the project covering about 11 square miles (28 sq. km) of federal land is expected to be completed next year with 440 MW of solar capacity for use in Nevada. Another 250 MW of generating capacity would be added in the second phase with the power sold in Nevada or exported to Arizona and California in 2022.
https://news.yahoo.com/biggest-us-solar ... 26181.html

Rob Lister
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Witness wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:53 am
Solar, for a change:
Biggest US solar project approved in Nevada despite critics

RENO, Nev. (AP) — The Trump administration announced final approval Monday of the largest solar energy project in the U.S. and one of the biggest in the world despite objections from conservationists who say it will destroy thousands of acres of habitat critical to the survival of the threatened Mojave desert tortoise in Nevada.
https://news.yahoo.com/biggest-us-solar ... 26181.html
This is why we can't have nice things. Not that solar is a particularly nice thing, it makes pretty good sense in Nevada. They have a way of dealing with conservationists in that area.

Witness
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Form Energy claims aqueous air battery provides 150 hours of storage

The holy grail of energy storage has always been low-cost and long-duration. Form Energy intends on deploying a 1 MW/150 MWh system with a Minnesota utility before 2023, an unprecedented energy storage duration if successful.

Form Energy, a secretive, long-duration energy storage startup funded by Bill Gates’ Breakthrough Energy Ventures and other investors is unstealthing — sort of.

The company has revealed that its fundamental energy storage technology is an “aqueous air battery system” that “leverages some of the safest, cheapest, most abundant materials on the planet” in order to commercially deploy a 1 MW/150 MWh long-duration storage solution.

Typical lithium ion battery storage systems provide four hours of storage compared to Form’s remarkable of 150 hours of storage. It’s not exactly the “seasonal” storage that Mateo Jaramillo, CEO of Form Energy, had spoken of in the past — but it’s a few orders of magnitude better than what can be done today.

(Although the term, “aqueous air battery system,” leaves us little more informed about the startup’s technology than when it was stealthed.)

The CEO, an energy storage veteran, has referred to the company’s product as a “bi-directional power plant” and claims that this level of duration allows for “a fundamentally new reliability function to be provided to the grid from storage, one historically only available from thermal generation resources.”

The first project

Form Energy’s first commercial project is a 1 MW, grid-connected storage system capable of delivering its rated power continuously for 150 hours with Minnesota-based utility Great River Energy.

Great River Energy is a not-for-profit wholesale electric power cooperative that provides electricity to 28 member-owner distribution cooperatives, serving 700,000 families, farms and businesses. It’s Minnesota’s second-largest electric utility.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/05/08/ ... n-storage/ for the rest.

sparks
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### Re: Wind Turbines

Interesting.

1MW for 150 hours. Love to see that in person.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

Rob Lister
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### Re: Wind Turbines

I'm not sure if this is just incredibly bad reporting or Poe. I suppose they're not mutually inclusive.
Form Energy claims aqueous air battery provides 150 hours of storage
My wall clock in my office has a AA battery in it that has been powering my clock for at least 8760 hours (about a year). I guess I win.
The holy grail of energy storage has always been low-cost and long-duration. Form Energy intends on deploying a 1 MW/150 MWh system with a Minnesota utility before 2023, an unprecedented energy storage duration if successful.
1MW means it is capable of providing up to 1 megawatt of power statically. 150MWh means it can supply that maximum for 1 hour, 30 minutes.

Both are nice to know given some context, which wasn't.

I'll bet that battery will do better than 100MW static if I short the leads together.

Comparatively, a Tesla Model S can produce 500hp, or about 370 KW, from a battery pack rated at 100KWh. So about 15 minutes.

Witness, why do you troll me so?