Heating Solutions

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ed
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by ed » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:27 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:55 pm
ed wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:38 pm
I thought that gas was very clean
Clean burning means no monoxide, fly ash, etc.

It's clean, but the issue is CO2.
So wind is dead birds and cow from production of copper. So?
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:53 pm

For that matter I'm allegedly a good "world citizen" for being all electric, but in Illinois that primarily means burning coal.

But it's not being burned in my immediate vicinity so fuck'm.
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Witness » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:00 am

Electrical heating has one snag: thermodynamics sponge off ~ 2/3 of the energy to get from heat to 'tricity (less for gas-fired plants). Converting it back to heat makes that just a loss, not an investment in "noble" energy. (Neglecting the distribution problems, of course.)

But wind and solar change the picture. Wind is heat already converted to mechanical energy, and solar cells convert directly light to electricity.

Got me thinking.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by ed » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:35 am

But wind kills birds.

Why do you hate cute penguins Witness?

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Witness » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:51 am

Image

And penguins are a bad choice as they don't fly. Perfectly safe frolicking around the turbines. :roll:

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by ed » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:53 am

Not if the Turbine, due to design flaws and payoffs to politicians, falls over and crushes them.

What about that?

You are an uncaring lout.
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Witness » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:02 am

Sacrifices have to be made. E. g. Florida to rising sea levels. :twisted:

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:19 am

He is so fucking wrong I just want to kick him. But he is a bit bigger than me.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:23 am

sparks wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:46 pm
Rob Lister wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:10 am
I cannot imagine a world where that is a good idea. 450 watts is half a clothes iron. Just buy an iron. $30 bucks tops. Twice the heating. 100% efficient.
Common sense says nothing is 100% efficient. But if the object is to convert electrical into thermal energy, what's being wasted and in what form?

Just Googled and found that "electrical resistance heating is 100% efficient". Then there is this on infra-red heaters: https://www.thespruce.com/how-to-choose ... er-4132344
So you just wasted bits to tell me I'm right?

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by asthmatic camel » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:49 am

You're right and wrong at the same time. The far infra-red panels heat the objects in the room rather than the air in it, as conventional convection heaters do. I checked this out last night when the temperature had dropped and can feel the heat from 3 meters away; it's similar to being able to feel the sun on a cold day. So, yeah, it's using the same amount of power as a 450-watt convection heater but it's using it more effectively.
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by ed » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:50 am

Witness wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:02 am
Sacrifices have to be made. E. g. Florida to rising sea levels. :twisted:
That is when lake ed become ed shores. A place of dreams for investment or retirement. :-P
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:26 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned clean fusion power.

Carbon neutral, and also alleviates the helium shortage.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by sparks » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:36 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:23 am


So you just wasted bits to tell me I'm right?
There a rule against that? :De_Bunk:
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by ceptimus » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:08 pm

Anything that uses electricity in your home heats it just the same - unless you're deliberately sending that energy outside (such as an electric searchlight with the beam directed out through a window).

So if you want 450 watts of heating, you might as well use an appliance that does something useful on the way to coverting that electrical energy to heat. A 450 watt computer will heat your home just the same as a 450 watt heater - and you get the benefit of having the computing power available for free: you could use it to mine bitcoin or watch porn in super HD or whatever.

Or you could install 450 watts worth of lamps and grow your own weed under them (though of course that would be illegal). :x

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:20 pm

It won't heat the apartment as well as my electric furnace which lives in a special closet has a fan and duct work to every room.

Because there really is more to proper heating than amount of photons emitted (watts).

You're still thinking in terms of huddling around the stove.
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by ceptimus » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:27 pm

It may not project/distribute the heat where you want it as well as a properly designed heating system. But if you're just putting a space heater into a room, then any electrical appliance of the same rating (Watts) will do an equally good job of heating that room. Even a fridge.

A true radiant heater may warm you across the width of a cold room by infra red. But heaters where you can touch the hot surface without burning yourself don't give off much useful infra-red. That includes so-called 'radiators' of central heating systems which would be more accurately named 'convectors' - and the electrical heater discussed in this thread seems to be similar, even though the advertising calls it a radiant infra-red heater.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:57 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:20 pm
Because there really is more to proper heating than amount of photons emitted (watts).
Actually, there's not.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by ceptimus » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:08 pm

And convection heating doesn't emit many photons - the energy goes into speeding up the average velocity of the air molecules - i.e. making the air hotter. Of course, all objects that are hotter than absolute zero give off some photons, but for convection-type heating, only a tiny fraction of the energy consumed is radiated that way.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by asthmatic camel » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:43 pm

ceptimus wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:27 pm
It may not project/distribute the heat where you want it as well as a properly designed heating system. But if you're just putting a space heater into a room, then any electrical appliance of the same rating (Watts) will do an equally good job of heating that room. Even a fridge.

A true radiant heater may warm you across the width of a cold room by infra red. But heaters where you can touch the hot surface without burning yourself don't give off much useful infra-red. That includes so-called 'radiators' of central heating systems which would be more accurately named 'convectors' - and the electrical heater discussed in this thread seems to be similar, even though the advertising calls it a radiant infra-red heater.
It does get hot, though...

Image

There's also the fact that convection heaters are very good at heating the ceiling but not so good at warming your toes to consider.
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Doctor X » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:08 am

So you installed it sideways?







Fag.

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