## Heating Solutions

We are the Borg.
Rob Lister
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### Re: Heating Solutions

asthmatic camel wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:00 pm And how much do they cost to run, Listy? I can buy, (and have bought), things like that from Poundstretcher round the corner for a similar amount. They're OK for occasional use but, with the cost of electricity here, ruinously expensive as an alternative to gas central heating.
They're 500-watt heaters so they cost .5kwh per hour, whatever that costs in your neck of the woods. Pretty much the same as your wall panels which your stated were 450 watts. Plus they have fans to push the warmth out. In a nutshell, they are exactly as efficient as your wall panels (100%), just a whole lot cheaper.

I really don't seem to be getting through to you about this. A watt is a watt is a watt. Every watt hour is 3.4 BTU/hr. It doesn't really matter how you make it, it's still a watt. If you want to create it with an expensive wall panel, that's your choice, but there is no difference in the cost per watt. And every watt heats the same.

The only way you could really go wrong is to create it with a lightbulb and leave your windows shades open, Even then, you're still close to 100%.

Or you could buy a single solar panel. They're cheap at less than $1 per watt. A 250watt panel (actual is closer to 50) would run you less than$250. Hang it on your roof with the wires coming down and connecting to a lightbulb or something. Free heat while the sun is shining.
asthmatic camel
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### Re: Heating Solutions

*SIGH*

Every watt doesn't heat the same, that's what I've been saying. Radiant heating is different from convection heating.

I know from experience that I need something like this to keep my small den and bathroom comfortably warm in the winter. Only £8 to buy but 2 kilowatts; watch the meter spin!. Granted, they're not on all the time as they have built-in thermostats, but neither are the panels.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.
Rob Lister
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### Re: Heating Solutions

asthmatic camel wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:20 pm *SIGH*

Every watt doesn't heat the same, that's what I've been saying.
Yes, you have been saying that. It just isn't true.
Radiant heating is different from convection heating.
No, it is not.

You can get an infrared heater and point it to yourself and sure, you'll feel it more quickly, but the heat is the same. And eventually, it will heat the room exactly the same. A watt is a watt is a watt.

Here, let this geek tell you.

Have you considered a kerosene heater? I used to have one. You have to get used to the smell but as a former airdale, I always enjoyed the smell. It's got to be cheaper than electricity even in your neck of the woods. I used to cheat and fill up with diesel from the gas station. Really the same thing with a bit more soot.
ed
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### Re: Heating Solutions

I used a Ker-O-Sun heater some time ago. Smell wasnt bad. Worked well and cheap.

Hey AC, thoughts on that Blair paper I posted? Or are you afraid they'll swoop down and arrest you?
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Rob Lister
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### Re: Heating Solutions

ed wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:51 pm I used a Ker-O-Sun heater some time ago. Smell wasnt bad.
When I smell kerosene, I think of jet engines. The smell of freedom!
Rob Lister
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:29 pm From the point of view of paying for it, every watt is the same.
Or rather every watt-hour to be precise.

The question is getting the heat from where it is created to where it is needed.
You're right, kinda. It all ends up the same though. If you want heat quickly, nothing beats an electric blanket. If you ask nice, I have a great sea story about them.
asthmatic camel
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### Re: Heating Solutions

*SIGH*

He does mention radiant heaters at 1.58 & 3.00. They look like halogen heaters, (example) and that they do indeed work differently to convection heaters.

This is what the wiki has to say about them:
Rectangular space heater

The main advantage of radiant heaters is that the infrared radiation they produce is absorbed directly by clothing and skin, without first heating the air in a space. This makes them suitable for warming people in poorly insulated rooms or outdoors, and allows more distance between people and the heater.

Some of the earliest electric heaters were radiant, consisting of nichrome heating wires held by ceramic or mica insulation at the focal point of a (usually) polished metal reflector. The cost was very low since nothing else, not even a switch, was needed. Later models included a wire guard to prevent accidental contact with the heating wires or the hot ceramic.

The metal reflectors needed to be fairly thick, however; a thin metal housing would get too hot to be safe. Inexpensive mid-20th century heaters were radiant, with the heating wires stretched relatively closely across a larger, thin, metal reflector separated from a thin metal housing. A small fan blew just enough air between the housing and the reflector to cool them, and the main output to the room was radiant heat (not heated air). Stretching the heating wires across a larger area required fewer (expensive) ceramic insulators, and a small fan was cheaper than a larger (or heavier) housing.

Quartz heaters are radiant heaters which are more efficient in the amount and direction of heat, with coiled heating wire inside unsealed quartz tubing. The wires could be thinner (or operate at a higher temperature) than ceramic-supported wires. If the heating elements are at a higher temperature, proportionally more energy is radiated than open-wire heaters.

Halogen heaters have tungsten filaments in sealed quartz envelopes, mounted in front of a metal reflector in a plastic case. They operate at a higher temperature than nichrome-wire heaters but not as high as incandescent light bulbs, radiating primarily in the infrared spectrum. They convert up to 86 percent of their input power to radiant energy, losing the remainder to conductive and convective heat.[7] The halogen cycle reduces darkening of the quartz envelope, extending filament life.
Bolding mine. Source

They're not really the same thing as the panels I've bought, and I rejected them as an option because they're not maintenance-free, (the filaments burn out regularly), are generally not wall-mountable and produce near-infrared radiation rather than far-infrared.

I absolutely understand that a watt is a watt is a watt but...

This is my small bathroom, a little smaller than my den, and the 450 watt panel I installed. (I've tidied up a bit so that faggots don't complain.)

This is the 1800 watt oil-filled radiator I've previously used to heat both, (not at the same time), rather than turn on the central heating.

Both heaters get the bathroom toasty warm but here's my smart meter with the panel on, a 7p per hour increase:

And with the radiator on, a 26p per hour increase:

Hey, come round for a bath next time you're in Blighty and check it out for yourself if you don't believe me, these panels work and they work well!
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.
Rob Lister
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Next time I'm in Blighty I will absolutely share a bath with your wife. I expect her to keep me extra warm.

That said, in all caps, YOU ARE WRONG. If you want directed heat, get a unit with a fan; it will heat a cone in front of it far more betteresetly than an infrared unit. I know wiki sez,...
The main advantage of radiant heaters is that the infrared radiation they produce is absorbed directly by clothing and skin, without first heating the air in a space.
Okay, you go girl. It heats your front while your ass is chillin'. Get a fucking $15 space heater. Honestly, if electricity is so expensive in your country, get a fucking kerosene heater like ed told you to. But once you're a territory, it won't matter. asthmatic camel Posts: 19863 Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm Title: Forum commie nun. Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle. ### Re: Heating Solutions Even I'm not dumb enough to use a fan heater in a bathroom. And Mrs. Camel is big enough to keep us both warm at the same time... Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck. Rob Lister Posts: 23331 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Heating Solutions asthmatic camel wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:10 pm Even I'm not dumb enough to use a fan heater in a bathroom. And Mrs. Camel is big enough to keep us both warm at the same time... I don't understand the first clause (a hair blow dryer is the quintessential space heater) but the second clause has me thinking we need to get to know each other better. sparks Posts: 17024 Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over! ### Re: Heating Solutions A watt is a watt, yes. The difference is the delivery system from heater to human. Heating up all that air in the room is bound to be more expensive than simply warming the human in the room. Here's an idea whose time has come: Microwave space heaters. They motion detect that there is an ugly sack of mostly water in the room and turn on. They stay on until there is no more motion in the room. "Mein Fuhrer! I can WALK!!!" You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think. ed Posts: 40125 Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm Title: G_D ### Re: Heating Solutions Allo, allo, allo. And what have we here? A WOODEN seat??????? XAZ1Nbp.jpg So, plastic isn't good enough for your special bum is it? Back in my day we had no wood, had nought a seat. Had to perch, we did. We'd say "have to drop one for the guvnor" when we went to the loo. You have it easy my lad. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. This space for let asthmatic camel Posts: 19863 Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm Title: Forum commie nun. Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle. ### Re: Heating Solutions Dumbass. People also ask Can you use a fan heater in the bathroom? Safety First: Only Use Approved Bathroom Heaters in the Bathroom. Not all portable space heaters can be placed and used directly as a bathroom heater. Like all electrical appliances, unless it is specifically designed to be used in a bathroom, space heaters should be kept away from direct contact with water. Also, I've used kerosene heaters in the past. They're now almost as expensive to run as conventional electric heaters, stink, are a fire hazard, vastly increase the amount of humidity in your house, fuel isn't readily available, produce carbon monoxide and are generally a pain in the arse so, no thanks. As for Mrs. Camel, be careful what you wish for. Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck. Rob Lister Posts: 23331 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Heating Solutions sparks wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:16 pm A watt is a watt, yes. The difference is the delivery system from heater to human. Heating up all that air in the room is bound to be more expensive than simply warming the human in the room. Which side of the human? And the result is the same. The temperature in the room rises by whatever watts you put in. Okay, so you're not staying in the room long and you only want to warm your tits and dick. You don't care what your back and ass are feeling. Fine. A space heater with a fan will still do a better job cheaper. Last edited by Rob Lister on Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total. asthmatic camel Posts: 19863 Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm Title: Forum commie nun. Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle. ### Re: Heating Solutions ed wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:18 pm Allo, allo, allo. And what have we here? A WOODEN seat??????? XAZ1Nbp.jpg So, plastic isn't good enough for your special bum is it? Back in my day we had no wood, had nought a seat. Had to perch, we did. We'd say "have to drop one for the guvnor" when we went to the loo. You have it easy my lad. Faggot. When this house was built it didn't even have a bathroom. A karzi at the bottom of the yard was what you got, and a tin bath in front of the fire once a year. If you were lucky. Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck. ed Posts: 40125 Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm Title: G_D ### Re: Heating Solutions A fire? Well well, aren't we the toff. The laird would infect us with botulism and the fever was all we had to keep us warm. Fag. This space for let Rob Lister Posts: 23331 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Heating Solutions Let me take this opportunity to rant a bit. 1) Abdul, you're full of shit. 2) In the U.S. central Air (heating, cooling) is pretty much a mainstay. It shouldn't be. I own a pretty big home and I'm heating/cooling every inch of it every minute. I use maybe...maybe...1000 square feet of that. I'm heating/cooling bedrooms and bathrooms nobody is using. I've closed the vents to most of the rooms but I have kids that keep visiting (they never stop) and opening them. I need to get rid of the kids. asthmatic camel Posts: 19863 Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm Title: Forum commie nun. Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle. ### Re: Heating Solutions Point 2 is part of what I was trying to address, Listy. Although it'll cost me roughly the same to use the panels I've installed to heat the rooms I'm actually using at the time as it would to heat the whole house with the gas central heating, I'll be using 3-4 times less energy. That's entirely down to the price difference between electricity and gas in the UK. The government has ambitious plans to cut Britain's greenhouse gas emissions to zero by 2050 but it's not doing much to encourage people to switch from gas to electricity. Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck. Rob Lister Posts: 23331 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Heating Solutions Is she big enough such that we don't have to actually see each other? Bottom line: just do what I fucking tell you. Get some very small 500-watt space heaters complete with tiny fans. Total cost, one at$20 bucks for a small room, two at $40 for a large room. That's it. Turn them on when you're in the room, off when you're not. If you're determined to heat your house by electricity, that is the cheapest AND most efficient way. And pass the soap. ceptimus Posts: 1388 Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:04 pm Location: UK ### Re: Heating Solutions Please report back if you still think those panels are so good once we've actually had some, you know, cold weather. I'm convinced they're mostly a scam. I would much rather run something like a 450 watt computer than a 450 watt wall panel. Both will heat the room exactly the same, but the computer can also do other useful work in the process. I don't expect you to be convinced though. Cold weather will be the acid test. asthmatic camel Posts: 19863 Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm Title: Forum commie nun. Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle. ### Re: Heating Solutions Rob Lister wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:40 pm Is she big enough such that we don't have to actually see each other? Bottom line: just do what I fucking tell you. Get some very small 500-watt space heaters complete with tiny fans. Total cost, one at$20 bucks for a small room, two at \$40 for a large room. That's it. Turn them on when you're in the room, off when you're not. If you're determined to heat your house by electricity, that is the cheapest AND most efficient way.

And pass the soap.
I don't want fucking fan heaters. They're noisy, dry the air, blow dust, which I'm allergic to, all over the place, don't last long and can't be hung on the wall or used in bathrooms.

Here you go, dwahling...

Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.
Witness
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### Re: Heating Solutions

ceptimus wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:41 pmCold weather will be the acid test.
But do we still have cold weather, even in Britland?
ceptimus
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Fan heaters don't "dry the air" - you need a dehumidifier to do that. Something that dries the air has to put the captured water somewhere.
ceptimus
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Witness wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:23 pm
ceptimus wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:41 pmCold weather will be the acid test.
But do we still have cold weather, even in Britland?
A.C. will let us know, I'm sure, about four months from now...
sparks
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### Re: Heating Solutions

ceptimus wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:53 pm Fan heaters don't "dry the air" - you need a dehumidifier to do that. Something that dries the air has to put the captured water somewhere.
No, but by raising the temp, the lower the relative humidity.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
asthmatic camel
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### Re: Heating Solutions

I don't want to heat my home with hair driers, irons or lightbulbs, either.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.
ed
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### Re: Heating Solutions

PRODUCT DETAILS
Warmth Rating:

Fabric:
Rugged cotton duck or poly/cotton blend twill
Hollofil®-insulated protection
Features:
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Insulated, removable zippered hood
Double-thick knit turtleneck and rib-knit cuffs keep body heat in
Bi-swing action back for ease of movement
Convenient side-leg zippers
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Triple-needle stitching
10-oz. 100% cotton duck or 7-oz. 65% polyester/35% cotton twill
8-oz. polyester Hollofil® insulation
Machine wash, dry
Imported
Problem fucking solved now stop whining and go and outlaw knives or something.
Also note that I found one with features that should be of particular interest to you (highlighted for the impaired)

I see why you lost all your overseas possessions and why the bloody Mics kicked your ass. You are dithering about an easily solved problem. Thank god Adolf isn't around today. Jesus Christ on a restricted firearm you people are pathetic. Are you calling a town meeting to address the issue? Are you going to make sure you don't BBQ pork so that the goddamn moslim snowflakes don't get the damn vapors .... oh excuse me I meant "vapours".

Faggot

ETA: SIX FUCKING PAGES ON THIS??????

Thats it. Get over here.

Closer

Now, go order the damn clothing, Ralphie, and come up with a topic that resonates.
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asthmatic camel
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### Re: Heating Solutions

ed wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:34 am Imported
Fuggin' 'Murricans.

Can't even be bothered to make their own tacky clothes, now...
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.
Witness
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### Re: Heating Solutions

ed
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### Re: Heating Solutions

asthmatic camel wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:06 pm
ed wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:34 am Imported
Fuggin' 'Murricans.

Can't even be bothered to make their own tacky clothes, now...
You wode wearing bastard. Just buy a fuggin' coat and shut up already.

Whats going to happen is you are going to save 50p and you and your wife are going to go up in a conflagration or a visitor is going to trip on the damn wires and sue you. This is not going to end well.
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sparks
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Settle the fuck down folks, it's just a fucking space heater.

Jesus titty fucking Christ.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
ed
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### Re: Heating Solutions

But but Trump
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Witness
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Go Victorian:

Spoiler:
asthmatic camel
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Just to piss off ed & Listy, it's now officially fucking freezing here but Mrs. C. and I are not. Nor are we skint.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.
Rob Lister
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Witness wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:32 am Go Victorian:

Spoiler:
I would so like to have that. I would refinish it and install it in my home office. Of course I'd have to also install a boiler in the garage to power it, but that's no problem. I would keep socks in the warmer.
Rob Lister
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### Re: Heating Solutions

asthmatic camel wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:56 pm Just to piss off ed & Listy, it's now officially fucking freezing here but Mrs. C. and I are not. Nor are we skint.
I bet you're wearing a sweater.
asthmatic camel
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Nope, I'm prancing around naked!

(Actually, I'm wearing my cycling Lycra, which is close.)
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.
asthmatic camel
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### Re: Heating Solutions

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:57 pm Not merely naked, but prancing.
Hobbling would be more precise as I've just got out of hospital after a couple of bad falls.

But still, a man has to try...
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.
Rob Lister
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### Re: Heating Solutions

A real man would not be hospitalized after only a couple of bad falls. It would take at least a dozen.

Pussy.
ed
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### Re: Heating Solutions

20190214_124507s.jpg
20190214_141534s.jpg
It's horrible here.

DO NOT COME HERE!!!!!!
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