Anaxagoras wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:37 am
So insects feel pain too.
To "feel" it they would have to be conscious. Even eukaryotes have nociception.
That's kind of horrifying if you dwell on it. Mother nature is horrifying.
There's a rare condition in which some people are born without sensitivity to pain. They tend to die at a young age. This proves the survival advantage of pain.
See poorly controlled diabetics. They can fail to suffer the agony of defeet, but succumb to the sequeli.
Too long ago on a Board Far Far Not in the Japanese Original, I dealt with a truly odious Cunt
who tried to justify horrible things by declaring that "suffering" as in feeling and understanding pain is "necessary to be human." He was trying to skirt around the recognition that some suffering is "unjust" between bouts of celebrating Hitler and blaming the Jews and gays for AIDS while being openly homosexual. Last I looked, he got tossed in jail since that is "what they do" when you try to attack a Jewish school.
Not so much for him but to those eating popcorn throughout the Upside Down, I explained that with a very tiny lesion, usually resulting from an infarct from a very wee distal capillary deciding to visit Disney World, you can remove a persons ability to suffer
from pain. They feel the pain as they always did.
They understand it and recognize the pain as pain as they always experienced it.
They just no longer suffer from it.
He went into a Tinkerbell
esque incontinent tirade over that, trying to deny it in the face of the actual SCIENCE that says otherwise.
I could have used the odd congenital insensitivity, and some do live into adulthood and beyond provided they take care, but I wanted to attack his idiotic claim that suffering is necessary.
The pain pathways are tremendously complex, and the ones you find in most non-specialist textbooks, are over simplified. There is, as you suggest, huge evolutionary advantages to a system that helps you avoid injury and lethal situations. This is why, ignored by a lot of basic text books, a lot of pathways go to various brain stem nuclei. As one specialist put it, "pain is the language of the ascending reticular activating system." Why it is pain that can bring someone to consciousness and is sometimes necessary to maintain it: true "stupor."
There are also attention reflexes not necessarily based on pain but on noise. You see this in the creepy "coma vigil" where a someone in a permanent vegetative state will turn and look at the door when opened. This gives you the "he looks at me!" problem from family. Wait a bit, and the patient ceases tracking.
Which is why I asked if an insect is conscious. The unconscious do not suffer pain because they cannot process it.