Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Rob Lister
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Rob Lister »

And 30 years later he still hasn't found it. Jeez, what a slacker.

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

NIH begins clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to treat COVID-19

Date is May 14th. Why not a month ago? :notsure:
A clinical trial has begun to evaluate whether the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, given together with the antibiotic azithromycin, can prevent hospitalization and death from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the National Institutes of Health, is sponsoring the trial, which is being conducted by the NIAID-funded AIDS Clinical Trials Group (ACTG). Teva Pharmaceuticals is donating medications for the study.

The Phase 2b trial will enroll approximately 2,000 adults at participating ACTG sites(link is external) across the United States. Study participants must have confirmed infection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, and be experiencing fever, cough and/or shortness of breath. The investigators anticipate that many of those enrolled will be 60 years of age or older or have a comorbidity associated with developing serious complications from COVID-19, such as cardiovascular disease or diabetes. Participants will be randomly assigned to receive short-term treatment with either hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin or matching placebos. People living with HIV and pregnant and breastfeeding women also are eligible to participate in the study. The first participant enrolled today in San Diego, California.
Anyway, another study published recently showed no evidence of benefit for the same drug combination:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2766117

And another:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N ... ain_nav_lg

Neither of which were randomized or placebo controlled.
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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

It takes time to recruit subjects (patients) and screen them for inclusion, and that's after the study protocols (inclusion/exclusion criteria; study methods; etc.) are established. That's if they want to do useful science that can stand up to scrutiny.
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ed
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by ed »

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:36 pm
NIH begins clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to treat COVID-19

Date is May 14th. Why not a month ago? :notsure:
A clinical trial has begun to evaluate whether the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, given together with the antibiotic azithromycin, can prevent hospitalization and death from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the National Institutes of Health, is sponsoring the trial, which is being conducted by the NIAID-funded AIDS Clinical Trials Group (ACTG). Teva Pharmaceuticals is donating medications for the study.

The Phase 2b trial will enroll approximately 2,000 adults at participating ACTG sites(link is external) across the United States. Study participants must have confirmed infection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, and be experiencing fever, cough and/or shortness of breath. The investigators anticipate that many of those enrolled will be 60 years of age or older or have a comorbidity associated with developing serious complications from COVID-19, such as cardiovascular disease or diabetes. Participants will be randomly assigned to receive short-term treatment with either hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin or matching placebos. People living with HIV and pregnant and breastfeeding women also are eligible to participate in the study. The first participant enrolled today in San Diego, California.
Anyway, another study published recently showed no evidence of benefit for the same drug combination:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2766117

And another:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N ... ain_nav_lg

Neither of which were randomized or placebo controlled.
Ergo not a study. What did they do? Administer the drug and then channeled Louis Pasteur to get the result? Pure crap.

Not that bad
We compared outcomes in patients who received hydroxychloroquine with those in patients who did not, using a multivariable Cox model with inverse probability weighting according to the propensity score.
The head of the Conditioning and Learning PhD program in my school said to me once "if you need fancy statistics to show something you aint got nothing." A simplification but I generally agree.
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corplinx
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by corplinx »

It works really well for prevention, it helps prevent advanced cases, and in the latest study it even had a small effect on advanced cases.

Another cheap drug, an anti-parasitic, is also showing good therapeutic value.

Someone taking vitamin-D, a multi-vitamin (Zinc, but not _too_ much), and HydroxyChloroquine is going to stand a better chance of not getting infected than someone else.

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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

About that zinc -- A quick look at the vitamin shelves at my local Walgreens today had a gap where the chelated zinc used to be.

Meanwhile Centrum Silver and generic equivalent multivitamins have enough and are not hard to find.

I wonder if there's some awful condition caused by too much zinc? :lmao:
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Anaxagoras
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

ed wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:50 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:36 pm
NIH begins clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to treat COVID-19

Date is May 14th. Why not a month ago? :notsure:
A clinical trial has begun to evaluate whether the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, given together with the antibiotic azithromycin, can prevent hospitalization and death from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the National Institutes of Health, is sponsoring the trial, which is being conducted by the NIAID-funded AIDS Clinical Trials Group (ACTG). Teva Pharmaceuticals is donating medications for the study.

The Phase 2b trial will enroll approximately 2,000 adults at participating ACTG sites(link is external) across the United States. Study participants must have confirmed infection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, and be experiencing fever, cough and/or shortness of breath. The investigators anticipate that many of those enrolled will be 60 years of age or older or have a comorbidity associated with developing serious complications from COVID-19, such as cardiovascular disease or diabetes. Participants will be randomly assigned to receive short-term treatment with either hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin or matching placebos. People living with HIV and pregnant and breastfeeding women also are eligible to participate in the study. The first participant enrolled today in San Diego, California.
Anyway, another study published recently showed no evidence of benefit for the same drug combination:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2766117

And another:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N ... ain_nav_lg

Neither of which were randomized or placebo controlled.
Ergo not a study. What did they do? Administer the drug and then channeled Louis Pasteur to get the result? Pure crap.

Not that bad
We compared outcomes in patients who received hydroxychloroquine with those in patients who did not, using a multivariable Cox model with inverse probability weighting according to the propensity score.
The head of the Conditioning and Learning PhD program in my school said to me once "if you need fancy statistics to show something you aint got nothing." A simplification but I generally agree.
Apparently good enough though to be published in the Journal of the American Medical Association and the New England Journal of Medicine.

Yeah, they were not randomized or placebo controlled, but they did use statistical techniques to try to control for confounding factors.
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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

Currently 1,518 COVID-19 studies listed. Not all are studies of drug treatments. Maybe someone could review each one and inform the sponsors and researchers about which of them are not really studies.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=COVID-19
The safety and scientific validity of this study is the responsibility of the study sponsor and investigators. Listing a study does not mean it has been evaluated by the U.S. Federal Government. Know the risks and potential benefits of clinical studies and talk to your health care provider before participating. Read our disclaimer for details.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

Apparently they are even doing a study on "intercessory prayer" for COVID-19.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

"Publish or perish," etc. Read some scientist somewhere who voiced concerns about the flood of COVID-19 studies making it more difficult for the ones of potentially better value.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT ... =2&rank=41
Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), which treats the disease from anther perspective, has achieved satisfactory results. National Health Commission of China released a series of policies to enhance the administration of TCM prescriptions.

This study is aimed to evaluate the efficacy and safety of Traditional Chinese Medicine as an adjuvant treatment for severe COVID-19.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT ... =2&rank=72
Keto-diet for Intubated Critical Care COVID-19 (KICC-COVID19)

Sponsor:
Johns Hopkins University
Information provided by (Responsible Party):
Johns Hopkins University

The hypothesis of this study is that the administration of a ketogenic diet will improve gas exchange, reduce inflammation, and duration of mechanical ventilation. The plan is to enroll 15 intubated patients with COVID 19 infection and administer a 4:1 ketogenic formula during their intubation.
Oh well.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 1:54 pm
Apparently they are even doing a study on "intercessory prayer" for COVID-19.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT ... &rank=1438
The COVID-19 ICU PRAYER Study

Sponsor:
Kansas City Heart Rhythm Institute

This is a multicenter; double blind randomized controlled study investigating the role of remote intercessory multi-denominational prayer on clinical outcomes in COVID-19 + patients in the intensive care unit. All patients enrolled will be randomized to use of prayer vs. no prayer in a 1:1 ratio. Each patient randomized to the prayer arm will receive a "universal" prayer offered by 5 religious denominations (Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism) in addition to standard of care. Whereas the patients randomized to the control arm will receive standard of care outlined by their medical teams. During ICU stay, patients will have serial assessment of multi-organ function and APACHE-II/SOFA scores serial evaluation performed on a daily basis until discharge.
Not yet recruiting.
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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

Spot the problem.

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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

Uh, yeah. I doubt that will help much. Nothing in between people on the left and right, and the plexiglass itself could be a potential vector if people touch it. Also the playing cards and the chips.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

corplinx wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:48 pm
Fast forward to now from the same YouTuber:
This video gets a fact check:



Definitely worth a watch because he gets a lot of things wrong in that video.
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Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

Meanwhile, in Cleveland...

Image
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by corplinx »

Anaxagoras wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 4:51 am
corplinx wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:48 pm
Fast forward to now from the same YouTuber:
This video gets a fact check:



Definitely worth a watch because he gets a lot of things wrong in that video.
His translation were off, but his pattern filter was correct as it turns out.

There is almost no doubt that this virus was the product of sponsored research in Sars viruses in the Wuhan lab.

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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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I've been saying 'these studies are wrong' where we turned medicine political and they test the wrong things with bad controls because Orange Man Bad.

But I've been on the conservative side with Zinc treatment (aka, hydroxychloroquine plus zinc) as being good when used defensively or early as prevention or to prevent advanced cases.

Well, the latest flawed study testing the wrong hypothesis basically had this in it:
Ventilated People: 80% die (we kinda already had this ballpark figure but the study shows it again)
Ventilated People who Receive HydroxyCholorquine + Zinc: 60% die

So it doubled the chance of survival in this study. The media is looking at the 60% who die and doing their normal terrible science reporting "orange mad bad, didnt cure all", but it doubled the survival rate.

At this point with other Countries using Zinc treatment protocols, the anti-Zinc thing is distinctly an American toxic culture thing related to deranged people hating Orange Man.

There is no evidence so support the media's bias against this treatment. They are science deniers.

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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

corplinx wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 4:40 pm

His translation were off, but his pattern filter was correct as it turns out.

There is almost no doubt that this virus was the product of sponsored research in Sars viruses in the Wuhan lab.
Oh really? In "the Wuhan lab"? Which Wuhan lab? Did you even watch the video?
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ed
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by ed »

Pyrrho wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:01 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 1:54 pm
Apparently they are even doing a study on "intercessory prayer" for COVID-19.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT ... &rank=1438
The COVID-19 ICU PRAYER Study

Sponsor:
Kansas City Heart Rhythm Institute

This is a multicenter; double blind randomized controlled study investigating the role of remote intercessory multi-denominational prayer on clinical outcomes in COVID-19 + patients in the intensive care unit. All patients enrolled will be randomized to use of prayer vs. no prayer in a 1:1 ratio. Each patient randomized to the prayer arm will receive a "universal" prayer offered by 5 religious denominations (Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism) in addition to standard of care. Whereas the patients randomized to the control arm will receive standard of care outlined by their medical teams. During ICU stay, patients will have serial assessment of multi-organ function and APACHE-II/SOFA scores serial evaluation performed on a daily basis until discharge.
Not yet recruiting.
Read what they are doing. They are assembling an inventory of things that "might" be influenced by prayer. The same sort of paradigm was used in another prayer study some years ago. They looked for an effect thing by thing. That is cheating. There is something called the Bonferroni correction that looks at repeated measures and corrects for bias due to repeated measures.

I guarentee that they will neglect to apply that correction thus increasing the (spurious) liklihood of significant relationships.
About that stereo