## Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

We are the Borg.
Pyrrho
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Reality has a way of indulging itself in unexpected ways. Clinical trials usually take much longer than this. Best we can do now is to avoid infection as much as we can. A vaccine may or may not work as advertised.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
Witness
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Judge orders Trump administration to reveal PPP loan data it sought to obscure

A federal judge said the SBA’s claim that the size of a loan would reveal a company’s payroll was “fundamentally flawed.”

A federal judge on Thursday ordered the Small Business Administration to release details on coronavirus pandemic-related loans that would disclose information on businesses that benefited from $717 billion in federally backed borrowings. The judge ordered the agency to disclose all the names, addresses and precise loan amounts issued through the Paycheck Protection Program and Emergency Injury Disaster Loan program. The decision comes after a lawsuit was filed by a dozen news organizations, charging that the agency was not fulfilling its obligations under the Freedom of Information Act. The SBA had previously released only summarized and anonymized data for PPP loans under$150,000 — which account for about 4.5 million of the 5.2 million in total loans made — claiming they would violate borrowers’ privacy by revealing the size of their payroll.

When the SBA denied the FOIA requests by news agencies, it argued that releasing government loan information would reveal business and personal information that should be kept private.

Federal Judge James Boasberg rejected those claims, saying in his ruling that, “the significant public interest in shedding light on SBA’s administration of the PPP and EIDL program dramatically outweighs any limited private interest in nondisclosure.” The judge discounted the SBA’s claim that the size of a loan would reveal a company’s payroll, calling the assertion “fundamentally flawed.”

He noted “the PPP loan application expressly notified potential borrowers — admittedly in a form disclaimer — that their names and loan amounts would be ’automatically released’ upon a FOIA request,” and criticized the agency for offering “a series of arguments that essentially all reduce to the unavailing contention that the agency did not mean what the loan-application forms actually said.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1246792
Anaxagoras
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Meanwhile the clinical trial of another vaccine candidate has been halted due to an adverse event.

Covid: China Sinovac vaccine trial halted in Brazil
The Brazilian clinical trial for a high-profile Chinese Covid-19 vaccine has been suspended after health authorities reported a "severe adverse" incident.

Brazilian health regulator Anvisa said it took place on 29 October, but did not give further details.

The Sinovac vaccine is one of several vaccines in final-stage testing.

But China has already been using it to immunise thousands of people in an emergency use programme.

There was no immediate response from Sinovac.

On Monday Anvisa said it had "ruled to interrupt the clinical trial of the CoronaVac vaccine after a serious adverse incident".

It did not reveal what happened, nor where it took place. Late-stage trials for the Sinovac vaccine are also being conducted in Indonesia and Turkey, but neither of these countries have announced a suspension.

Dimas Covas, the head of Butantan, the medical research institute conducting the Brazilian trial, told local media that the trial's suspension was related to a death.

But he insisted that the death was not related to the vaccine, reported Reuters news agency.

Butantan has said it would hold a news conference on Tuesday at 11am local time (1400 GMT).
Mysterious. It is being claimed that the trial's suspension was related to a death, but that the death was not related to the vaccine. That makes little sense to me. Unless there's a possibility that the death was related to the vaccine.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Doctor X
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Hard to tell without specifics. In trials you are looking for adverse effects you do not expect as well as whether or not some expected adverse effects are serious. People can get sick and die as in any population.

The quick judgment of "not related to the vaccine" seems to mean that it was not an allergic reaction. Why one death would cause such a panic suggests that they do not know why the person died.

Another possibility is simple fear of bad publicity.

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robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

I told ya not everyone plays by the same rules
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Of course the US did the same thing with a swine flu vaccine
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
Anaxagoras
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Dr. John has some comments on the vaccine news. He thinks it looks promising.

Out of about 43,000-odd participants, half were given the vaccine and half were given a placebo.
Of those, 94 later tested positive for the virus, and 90% of those were from the placebo group. Hence, there was a significant protective effect in the vaccinated group versus the placebo. Further, no serious safety concerns were observed.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Pyrrho
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
Pyrrho
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

https://www.ideastream.org/news/skyrock ... ng-records
Daily COVID-19 cases shattered a new record high in Ohio Friday, with more than 8,000 cases reported over the last 24 hours, according to state health officials.

Cases are also skyrocketing in Cuyahoga County, with more than 500 new cases reported Friday, the highest number of cases ever reported in a single day in the county, Health Commissioner Terry Allan said in a press conference on Friday with county officials.

"We are now in a very slippery slope," he said.

Hospitalizations and intensive care unit (ICU) admissions are also increasing, said Jana Rush, the county’s director of epidemiology.

Area hospitals are reporting an increase in emergency room visits, and some facilities have postponed nonessential surgeries as a precaution to ensure enough beds and staff are available, Allan said.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
Witness
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Source & lots of details: https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/
Anaxagoras
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)
Pyrrho
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

https://apnews.com/article/iowa-south-d ... fa764dfab2
Danny Rice has a good sense of how dangerous the coronavirus can be.

What puzzles him are the people who have curtailed so much of their lives to avoid being infected by the virus.

“I’m not going out and looking to catch it,” he said, sitting at a cluttered desk in his auto repair shop in the tiny eastern Nebraska community of Elmwood. “I don’t want to catch it. But if I get it, I get it. That’s just how I feel.”

Plenty of people agree with Rice, and health experts acknowledge those views are powering soaring COVID-19 infection rates, especially in parts of the rural Midwest where the disease is spreading unabated and threatening to overwhelm hospitals.
The corollary is that folks like Danny "feel" the same way if you catch it.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Hey, here's an idea. Dictate a half ass quarantine to slow the curve, so by the time the cold season arrives, most people will still be at risk. Then do the same stupid shit that didn't stop the spread, and cry a river of tears and blame everybody but the authorities, the rioters and the morons who came up with a plan that doesn't work

Then when shit gets bad, use it as a reason to remove all civil liberties.

Oh, and try and put off vaccination as long as possible, until you are sure Trump is gone.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Let me know how that works out.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
Witness
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

New research from the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health details the U.S. government’s egregious mishandling of the COVID-19 pandemic, identifies a powerful predictor of COVID-19 deaths, and suggests responses that could still alleviate the pandemic’s damage.

The study’s damning conclusion: “The evidence suggests that ineffective national policies and responses, especially as compared to those of other wealthy nations or compared to the intricate preparation and planning by previous administrations of both parties, have been driving the terrible toll of COVID-19 and its inequities in the U.S.”

The costliest errors were committed in the pandemic’s earliest stages, the study finds. The Trump administration’s initial U.S. travel ban on Jan. 31 applied only to non-U.S. travelers and only to travelers coming from China, though the virus was “already known to be present in Italy, Iran, Spain, Germany, Finland, and the United Kingdom.” No symptom screening on arrival was required, nor was quarantining. Later research “found repeatedly” that “the great majority” of the virus introductions to the U.S. came not from China but from European strains.
...
Several other countries handled the pandemic far more effectively. For example, Australia closed its borders to all non-Australian citizens on March 15, when only 300 cases had been reported, and mandated “14-day, supervised quarantine in a hotel for all international arrivals (including Australian citizens)” plus “aggressive testing and contact tracing.” As of Nov. 12, Australia had recorded 36 COVID-19 deaths per million vs. 773 COVID-19 deaths per million in the U.S., says the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center. “This is the difference between establishing effective national border policies and failing to do so,” the researchers say.

Those blunders can’t be corrected, but others can be. The study identifies three workplace policy mistakes that could still be remedied at any time. [Details left out.]
• Failure to use federal authority and budget to supply PPE.
• Failure to require “mandatory universal paid sick leave for those unable to work due to COVID-19.”
• Failure to mandate “standards for occupational exposures.”
Though the study is discouraging, the researchers find reason for hope: “Despite the understandable dismay at the state of the pandemic in the United States, it is not too late to make a difference, and that difference starts with the implementation of apt policies.”
https://fortune.com/2020/11/13/covid-tr ... ronavirus/ for the details.
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Not stopping travel was, and is, the big mistake
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Danish mask study shows masks do literally nothing to protect from COVID-19

Press release says wear masks, they work
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
gnome
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Hmm. They have forced people to stop smoking indoors. And raised the smoking age recently. Not sure that's a great example.

Another consideration is that hospitals aren't having to consider rationing care because they are flooded with smoking-related cases.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Forcing people to not smoke we know would save lives

But it’s not done

Masks have no evidence they save lives, but the cops are forcing you to wear one

It’s not a subtle point
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
Pyrrho
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
gnome
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Is this the study that casts doubt on whether masks effectively protect the wearer? That would be a lot more significant except you'll remember the primary purpose is source control--preventing an infected person with a mask from being as likely to infect another.

A hundred arguments and studies about how the wearer is not protected doesn't address that, so i don't know why, except as deception, such an argument continues to be used. Can I ask robinson that you not be deceptive?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2
Pyrrho
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The study is published here: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
ed
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Here is the relevant question:

I get covid.

1- how likely am I to require hospitalization?
2- how likely am I to die?

Compare and contrast with flu or measles or something sorta common.
For example: you have a 99.98 chance of not dieing thru and after a pregnancy. What is the comparable survival rate for Wuhan?

That is all.
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robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

If you are young, about zero chance

If you are old and have health problems

nobody knows yet, but not good
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
ed
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Thats nice but an unsatisfactory basis for establishment of a health policy in a real country.
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robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

I would agree
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
ed
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

<crickets>
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robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

It’s best not to mention uncomfortable things
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Take it from the news media if you don’t talk about it it didn’t happen
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
The Atheist
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

ed wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:50 pm Here is the relevant question:

I get covid.

1- how likely am I to require hospitalization?
2- how likely am I to die?
I'm presuming you're in your 70s, ]so your chances of dying are about 5%. Given that more people come out of hospital standing than in a bag, your chances of hospitalisation are at lest 2-3 times that, so call it 15%. One chance in 7, so if you have six mates the same age, one of you will go to hospital with Covid with a 20% chance of coming out in a bag.
ed wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:50 pmCompare and contrast with flu or measles or something sorta common.
Measles fatality rate is fuck all - the problem with measles is its communicability.

Influenza has a mortality rate of 0.1%, in a bad year.

Belgium and Peru already have mortality rate of over 0.1% from Covid, and they've had a maximum of 10-20% of the population infected, so it's at least 5-10 times more deadly than influenza.
ed wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:50 pm For example: you have a 99.98 chance of not dieing thru and after a pregnancy. What is the comparable survival rate for Wuhan?

That is all.
The other thing you need to take into account is that as well as the 5% chance of dying, you have another 5-10% chance of developing long-term or permanent harm to your organs.
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Witness
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The Atheist wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:54 pm The other thing you need to take into account is that as well as the 5% chance of dying, you have another 5-10% chance of developing long-term or permanent harm to your organs.
Indeed:
COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects

...

Organ damage caused by COVID-19

Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:
• Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
• Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
• Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Blood clots and blood vessel problems

COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.

Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... t-20490351

To be fair, confinement has its own problems: COVID-19 Lockdown Reduced Mental Health, Sleep, Exercise

But I'll take that anytime over clogged blood vessels!
robinson
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

And yet in Sweden, the total number of deaths this year is lower than average

If only science could solve this problem, but fuck it, let’s have politicians keep trying
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
Pyrrho
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

https://apnews.com/article/us-news-coro ... 9ecbe74daa
Pfizer said Friday it is asking U.S. regulators to allow emergency use of its COVID-19 vaccine, starting the clock on a process that could bring limited first shots as early as next month and eventually an end to the pandemic -- but not until after a long, hard winter.
Importantly...
The public’s first chance to see how strong the evidence really is will come in early December at a public meeting of the FDA’s scientific advisers.

So far, what’s known is based only on statements from Pfizer and BioNTech. Of 170 infections detected to date, only eight were among people who’d received the actual vaccine and the rest had gotten a dummy shot. On the safety side, the companies cites results from 38,000 study participants who’ve been tracked for two months after their second dose. That’s a milestone FDA set because historically, vaccine side effects don’t crop up later than that.

“We’ll drill down on these data,” said FDA adviser Dr. Paul Offit of the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.
Now...how that works is that Pfizer will be required to release clinical study reports containing a lot of data to the FDA. The advisory committee is composed of medical science professionals, not specifically FDA staff. FDA will present at the meeting, and Pfizer will present at the meeting. The advisory committee will ask a lot of questions. Any "slides" that are presented will become public record. The FDA analysis may become public record, but the entirety of Pfizer's data will not. Here's what was made public from the October 22 meeting:

Member of the public may be able to speak at a certain point in the advisory meeting. The public should also be able to view the proceedings online but given the huge interest, very likely the connection limit will be met very early.

Watch this space, although it seems FDA hasn't updated their calendar yet, given that this announcement was just published. You'll be looking for the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee:

or

YMMV etc.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
ed
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

very likely the connection limit will be met very early.
Right because this is like 1972.

Covid is encouraging and, I submit, allowing an open discussion of and implementation of elements of a socialist agenda. Including the codification of human rights abuses. Thats pretty much all a given.

Now ... suppose some commie/socialist country invaded with an eye to imposing their system. We would resist.

What would would an acceptable number of casualties be to effect such a resistance?
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gnome
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

These abuses you are concerned with, they are specifically of a socialist nature, nobody else ever does them?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2
ed
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Our new socialism in this country seems to have a more than passing similarity to fascism of the Nazi stripe. The righties seem content to lurk, largely.

The idea that a politician can restrict personal behavior, even within a home, is rather controlling, no? And, of course, they love the idea of gun confiscation.

Why is that I wonder. Do they love life? No, that is demonstrably false. They want a disarmed population. Why would that be?
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gnome
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### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

We're going quite a bit beyond Covid policy there. The implications of gun control are worth exploring but it's not the same topic.

Though I'll extend an analogy--I think the whole gun control thing (at least among most people) is from polarization over an idea driving people to speculate extremes, and react in fear, and that cycle reinforces itself. That does not require puppet masters with an agenda. I think the same thing may have happened over masking. One side becomes emotional about it because they fear the other side is even more irrational.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2