Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Is this the study that casts doubt on whether masks effectively protect the wearer? That would be a lot more significant except you'll remember the primary purpose is source control--preventing an infected person with a mask from being as likely to infect another.

A hundred arguments and studies about how the wearer is not protected doesn't address that, so i don't know why, except as deception, such an argument continues to be used. Can I ask robinson that you not be deceptive?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by ed »

Here is the relevant question:

I get covid.

1- how likely am I to require hospitalization?
2- how likely am I to die?

Compare and contrast with flu or measles or something sorta common.
For example: you have a 99.98 chance of not dieing thru and after a pregnancy. What is the comparable survival rate for Wuhan?

That is all.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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If you are young, about zero chance

If you are old and have health problems

nobody knows yet, but not good
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Thats nice but an unsatisfactory basis for establishment of a health policy in a real country.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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I would agree
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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<crickets>
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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It’s best not to mention uncomfortable things
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Take it from the news media if you don’t talk about it it didn’t happen
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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ed wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:50 pm Here is the relevant question:

I get covid.

1- how likely am I to require hospitalization?
2- how likely am I to die?
I'm presuming you're in your 70s, ]so your chances of dying are about 5%. Given that more people come out of hospital standing than in a bag, your chances of hospitalisation are at lest 2-3 times that, so call it 15%. One chance in 7, so if you have six mates the same age, one of you will go to hospital with Covid with a 20% chance of coming out in a bag.
ed wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:50 pmCompare and contrast with flu or measles or something sorta common.
Measles fatality rate is fuck all - the problem with measles is its communicability.

Influenza has a mortality rate of 0.1%, in a bad year.

Belgium and Peru already have mortality rate of over 0.1% from Covid, and they've had a maximum of 10-20% of the population infected, so it's at least 5-10 times more deadly than influenza.
ed wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:50 pm For example: you have a 99.98 chance of not dieing thru and after a pregnancy. What is the comparable survival rate for Wuhan?

That is all.
The other thing you need to take into account is that as well as the 5% chance of dying, you have another 5-10% chance of developing long-term or permanent harm to your organs.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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The Atheist wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:54 pm The other thing you need to take into account is that as well as the 5% chance of dying, you have another 5-10% chance of developing long-term or permanent harm to your organs.
Indeed:
COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects

...

Organ damage caused by COVID-19

Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:
  • Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
  • Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
  • Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Blood clots and blood vessel problems

COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.

Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... t-20490351

To be fair, confinement has its own problems: COVID-19 Lockdown Reduced Mental Health, Sleep, Exercise

But I'll take that anytime over clogged blood vessels! :|
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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And yet in Sweden, the total number of deaths this year is lower than average


If only science could solve this problem, but fuck it, let’s have politicians keep trying
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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https://apnews.com/article/us-news-coro ... 9ecbe74daa
Pfizer said Friday it is asking U.S. regulators to allow emergency use of its COVID-19 vaccine, starting the clock on a process that could bring limited first shots as early as next month and eventually an end to the pandemic -- but not until after a long, hard winter.
Importantly...
The public’s first chance to see how strong the evidence really is will come in early December at a public meeting of the FDA’s scientific advisers.

So far, what’s known is based only on statements from Pfizer and BioNTech. Of 170 infections detected to date, only eight were among people who’d received the actual vaccine and the rest had gotten a dummy shot. On the safety side, the companies cites results from 38,000 study participants who’ve been tracked for two months after their second dose. That’s a milestone FDA set because historically, vaccine side effects don’t crop up later than that.

“We’ll drill down on these data,” said FDA adviser Dr. Paul Offit of the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.
Now...how that works is that Pfizer will be required to release clinical study reports containing a lot of data to the FDA. The advisory committee is composed of medical science professionals, not specifically FDA staff. FDA will present at the meeting, and Pfizer will present at the meeting. The advisory committee will ask a lot of questions. Any "slides" that are presented will become public record. The FDA analysis may become public record, but the entirety of Pfizer's data will not. Here's what was made public from the October 22 meeting:

https://www.fda.gov/advisory-committees ... -materials

Member of the public may be able to speak at a certain point in the advisory meeting. The public should also be able to view the proceedings online but given the huge interest, very likely the connection limit will be met very early.

Watch this space, although it seems FDA hasn't updated their calendar yet, given that this announcement was just published. You'll be looking for the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee:

https://www.fda.gov/advisory-committees ... e-calendar

or

https://www.fda.gov/advisory-committees ... -committee

YMMV etc.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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very likely the connection limit will be met very early.
Right because this is like 1972.


Covid is encouraging and, I submit, allowing an open discussion of and implementation of elements of a socialist agenda. Including the codification of human rights abuses. Thats pretty much all a given.

Now ... suppose some commie/socialist country invaded with an eye to imposing their system. We would resist.

What would would an acceptable number of casualties be to effect such a resistance?
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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These abuses you are concerned with, they are specifically of a socialist nature, nobody else ever does them?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Our new socialism in this country seems to have a more than passing similarity to fascism of the Nazi stripe. The righties seem content to lurk, largely.

The idea that a politician can restrict personal behavior, even within a home, is rather controlling, no? And, of course, they love the idea of gun confiscation.

Why is that I wonder. Do they love life? No, that is demonstrably false. They want a disarmed population. Why would that be?
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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We're going quite a bit beyond Covid policy there. The implications of gun control are worth exploring but it's not the same topic.

Though I'll extend an analogy--I think the whole gun control thing (at least among most people) is from polarization over an idea driving people to speculate extremes, and react in fear, and that cycle reinforces itself. That does not require puppet masters with an agenda. I think the same thing may have happened over masking. One side becomes emotional about it because they fear the other side is even more irrational.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Witness wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:47 am To be fair, confinement has its own problems: COVID-19 Lockdown Reduced Mental Health, Sleep, Exercise

But I'll take that anytime over clogged blood vessels! :|
Actions have consequences.

One of the things we were warned about at the start was that suicides would skyrocket.

Never happened, and in fact it seems that the rates were lower.

We won't know what the full impact of Covid was for several years, I'd say.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Gun control in Chicago works as well as covid restrictions do, to stop deaths
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Not sure what you are saying there.
Fact is that Biden/Harris have come out with confiscation as a policy. That is the presumptive president and his soon-to-be replacement saying that. That position therefore has weight.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Fuck them both
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Was that clear enough?
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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So we went from “there has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus” to multiple vaccines in 7 months
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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I knew the Pfizer vaccine worked 3 months ago
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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So really it was about 4 months to make a working vaccine
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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The Atheist wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:52 pm One of the things we were warned about at the start was that suicides would skyrocket.

Never happened, and in fact it seems that the rates were lower.
Japan seems to have been hit:
Japan suicides rise as economic impact of COVID-19 hits home

TOKYO: The number of suicides in Japan rose in October for the fourth month in a row to the highest level in more than five years, data showed on Tuesday (Nov 10), a trend activists have blamed on the economic impact of the coronavirus, on women in particular.

According to preliminary police data, the total number of suicides for October was 2,153, an increase of more than 300 from the previous month and the highest monthly tally since May 2015.

Of October's cases, 851 were women, a rise of 82.6 per cent over the same month in 2019. The number of suicides by men rose 21.3 per cent.

Cases of suicide had been falling steadily until July but then the economic impact of the novel coronavirus outbreak hit home and the numbers started rising, activists say.

Women, who are more likely to be in non-permanent employment in the retail or service industries, have been disproportionately affected by job losses.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/as ... t-13508574

The Atheist wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:52 pm We won't know what the full impact of Covid was for several years, I'd say.
Agreed, alas. :|
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Missouri health director quits over harassment for telling the truth about pandemic

Amber Elliot, St. Francois County, Missouri health director, explains why she decided to resign her position after being targeted for harassment over telling the truth about the pandemic.
Interview at the link: https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/11/19/m ... t_E_VpIky8
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Witness wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:11 am Japan seems to have been hit:
Japan suicides rise as economic impact of COVID-19 hits home
Trust Japan to buck the trend.

And their unemployment rate is the lowest it's been for years.
Last edited by The Atheist on Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Tldr. So what is "the truth"?
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robinson wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:19 am So really it was about 4 months to make a working vaccine
Here's why:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/mod ... ly-results
Both Moderna and Pfizer’s vaccines rely on messenger RNA, or mRNA, a genetic molecule that cellular machinery “reads” to build proteins inside cells. For these vaccines, the mRNA contains instructions for building the coronavirus’ spike protein, which helps the virus enter human cells.

The vaccines induce human cells to make the spike protein, and the immune system then makes antibodies to latch onto the spike proteins. Those vaccine-stimulated antibodies may prevent the real virus from infecting healthy cells in the future.

No vaccine using such mRNA technology has ever been used in people. If such vaccines prove successful, that could expedite the vaccine-making process. “That’s one of the strengths of the platform,” Luning Prak says. “Within a matter of essentially minutes, you could basically design a vaccine.” That’s because these vaccines don’t rely on laboratory-grown cells to produce millions of doses like other types of vaccines do. All researchers need is the genetic code for a particular viral protein, such as the spike protein. Although choosing the right protein out of many possibilities to generate the best immune response may still prove tricky, mRNA vaccines “clearly have promise,” she says.
Lucky that there are real geniuses at work on these advances in medical science. As opposed to hack politicians who want all the credit for themselves, despite not being able to form complete sentences.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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The advances in triggering the human immune system are indeed futuristic and a drastic change from the old days.

Vaccines for any virus are now possible, and combined with advances in testing, understanding nutrition and how the immune system works, we are actually on the edge of breaking out of the past darkness and idiotic mandates that somehow still haunt the demonic world of medicine.

I know that sounds like rhetoric, but the failures of the CDC, the WHO, and other medical authorities, in regard to this latest "novel" virus, they really are demonic.
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Because everything is now politics, and the woke have their fat idiot fingers in every pie, China actually comes out looking good in the fight against the virus. Taiwan really came out good.

Non woke countries did fine. Science based countries did well. And countries that simply stopped travel did incredibly well.


The Big Brother narrative is idiocy, because Big Brother does not deal with reality, but rhetoric and beliefs and other stupid shit.

The reality is simple and easy for anyone to understand. If you have a deadly virus that spreads from person to person, the way to stop it is to stop people from spreading it. Then you make vaccines, and then you prepare for the next one.

None of this was done, or will be done, by people who follow politics.
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Witness wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:11 am
The Atheist wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:52 pm One of the things we were warned about at the start was that suicides would skyrocket.

Never happened, and in fact it seems that the rates were lower.
Japan seems to have been hit:
Japan suicides rise as economic impact of COVID-19 hits home

TOKYO: The number of suicides in Japan rose in October for the fourth month in a row to the highest level in more than five years, data showed on Tuesday (Nov 10), a trend activists have blamed on the economic impact of the coronavirus, on women in particular.

According to preliminary police data, the total number of suicides for October was 2,153, an increase of more than 300 from the previous month and the highest monthly tally since May 2015.

Of October's cases, 851 were women, a rise of 82.6 per cent over the same month in 2019. The number of suicides by men rose 21.3 per cent.

Cases of suicide had been falling steadily until July but then the economic impact of the novel coronavirus outbreak hit home and the numbers started rising, activists say.

Women, who are more likely to be in non-permanent employment in the retail or service industries, have been disproportionately affected by job losses.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/as ... t-13508574
But notice the highlighted bit. This may just be a reversion to the mean. They say last month was "the highest level in more than five years" but what was happening in May of 2015? Japan is just a country that always has had a lot of suicides. Pandemic or no pandemic. The rate has risen for 4 months in a row, but only after it "had been falling steadily" for some time. So, eventually it reverts to the mean.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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All the reasoning capability of a piece of chewing gum stuck to the underside of a desk.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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The paper clearly states non symptom infected are not spreading it

Hmmm


Boy that’s not going to be accepted by the wokerati
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Help me out with this--why does this study find something different from so many other studies about presymptomatic transmission? Where's the disconnect?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Because they used almost 10 million people for the study
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